Evangelion interpretation

Jonathan02us · Post by **Jonathan02us** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:01 pm

Tidus_F_F_X wrote:Ahhh. Good ol' Eva, seeing this tread brings back the memories OF PAIN AND SUFFERING WHICH I HAD TO ENDURE IN THE AFTERMATH OF WATCHING THE ENDING, SPENDING LONG SLEEPLESS NIGHTS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS. The meaning may have seemed obvious to you guys, but Eva was the first anime i had ever watched, well Eva and Ah! My Goddess (i watched them at the same time), and it confused the hell out of me, it obviously wasnt a good starter, but i had heard soo much good stuff about it, and thats really what gotme to watch any anime at all.

HAHA ... watching two series at once aint that good of an idea ... well i did it to and it confuse the heck out of me ... lol ...

... well when i first saw eva through a series of nights, it kept me up a bit and wondering wat was next or wat the episode i saw was implying ...

Toecutter wrote:But that's just it! He didn't want Asuka (at least not the whole alternate reality dream world version). He wanted to live as an individual, with an AT-Field, outside of Instrumentality. Asuka just happened to choose the same fate.

Strangling Asuka was just a way for him to confirm he was in the real world, in which he and others can experience pain. There's also the satisfaction of giving that Kraut what she deserved.

Let's face it, Shinji has the ability to make something decent out of himself, but lacks the desire to interact and a decent male role-model to get up to speed. Kaji would have been perfect for the job of teaching Shinji how to be a man, but working for a secret organization full of scum and assasinations kind of made that an impossibility.

Yeah i guess that strangling Asuka would have been some sort of confirmation that he was in the real world ... where everyone can experience pain and suffering...

I think that if Kaji would have been there to help shinji with some of his problems, he could have taught him to become a real man and all ... mayb he wouldnt have had to suffer too much ...

Spoiler

to bad he disappeared and left shinji to fend for himself and Misato to he alone again ...

i wonder wat ever happened to him ... i never really pay too much attention to that ...

As for Shinji and Asuka being stuck with each other is just ironic because they hate each other ... but shinji, deep down inside wanted help from Auska because she was the only one that he could really talk to because he felt weird with rei and all ... i dont kno but thats just my 2 cents on that ... 8) [/quote]

d00kiemastah · Post by **d00kiemastah** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:30 pm

Jonathan02us wrote:Spoiler

to bad he disappeared and left shinji to fend for himself and Misato to he alone again ...
i wonder wat ever happened to him ... i never really pay too much attention to that ...

Spoiler again
I'm pretty sure he was shot. Alot of theories on who it was. I don't really lean in any direction.

Jonathan02us · Post by **Jonathan02us** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:42 pm

d00kiemastah wrote:
Jonathan02us wrote:Spoiler

to bad he disappeared and left shinji to fend for himself and Misato to he alone again ...
i wonder wat ever happened to him ... i never really pay too much attention to that ...

Spoiler again
I'm pretty sure he was shot. Alot of theories on who it was. I don't really lean in any direction.

Yeah i agree with that but then again, he could have been still alive but in prison o something because of the government who didnt like him because of wat he was doing ... i dont kno ... the series left him hanging in the end ...

... i wish that that they got into him more because he was a pretty significant person in the series

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:46 pm

Toecutter wrote:He wanted to live as an individual, with an AT-Field, outside of Instrumentality. Asuka just happened to choose the same fate.

Strangling Asuka was just a way for him to confirm he was in the real world, in which he and others can experience pain. There's also the satisfaction of giving that Kraut what she deserved.

Let's face it, Shinji has the ability to make something decent out of himself, but lacks the desire to interact and a decent male role-model to get up to speed. Kaji would have been perfect for the job of teaching Shinji how to be a man, but working for a secret organization full of scum and assasinations kind of made that an impossibility.

Totally agree on all points. My understanding is he strangled her not out of malice, but to confirm he had an AT field and could experience/give pain to others...to confirm one's existence.

As for Kaji, I have read a lot of good thoughts that in the *entire* show Kaji is the only truly "sane" person. I mean think about it, he knows *everything* going on and yet...he's still fairly collected and content. I know people laugh at the watermelon scene (watering them during a battle), but it truly drives in the point that this man is content even though he knows all these things about the end of the world and instrumentality. Just a cool little thought i guess

.

Toecutter wrote:Well, if you remember in EoE, Rei (once she joined with Lilltih) gave Shinji the choice for how Instrumentality went down, because she rejected Gendo. After Shinji came to realize that it's up to the individual to decide what is best for them, and disregard what everyone else says, he finally came to a decision about Instrumentality.

Instead of forcing everyone into Instrumentality (like Seele wanted), or denying Instrumentality to everyone except Yui and Gendo (as Gendo wanted), Shinji gave everyone the choice to either live in their dream world, or "take the red pill, and see how far the rabbit hole really goes".

Asuka, because she's a determined survivor, chose life outside of Instrumentality. Shinji, after being fully enlightened as how to avoid being someone's bitch for the rest of his life, decided he needed to live outside of Instrumentality, to put his new found self-confidence to the test.

As for the "I feel sick" line, I believe it's a combination of Anno's comment about making the two films (Death and Rebirth, and EoE), and Asuka's pain for realizing everything that went down, along with how her survival strategy just caused more pain on all sides.

So now we've got two people, who before Instrumentality couldn't even cooperate in a professional manner, stuck for who knows how long alone on the Earth (there wasn't much of a hint as to how long it would take for everyone else to put the pieces together, or if anyone else would choose the real world over Instrumentality).

Thank you! I mean I already knew all that, but it means I don't have to write it all out...and you probably wrote it more clearly than I would've

.

As for the Kaji death thing...yes he was shot. Yes he is dead. Let's please not get into the (imo stupid) debate of *who* shot him...

derek_t · Post by **derek_t** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:55 pm

I want a debate over who shot him

I say its unseen Nerv agent number 1

My brother says its unseen Nerv agent number 2.

What do you all think, LOL

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:20 pm

They have names, you know. If you watch Episode 21, they cover who the major Section 2 guys are, and they use their names! Those would be the guys who would've delivered the fatal shot.

Kaji has to be the only sane person in the series. Ritsuko is as cut off from society as everyone else is in the series. The only difference is how she expresses it (with tons of cats, tinkering with the Evas/Magi, and talking to Maya). Even Maya, Makoto, and Shigeru are all nutty, anti-social bastards. You don't see them have lives outside of work at all.

You know, all the major people in NERV talk about having that feeling of loneliness inside them, that can't be solved unless Instrumentality takes place. Maybe if they actually got off their asses, and tried to interact with people, they would realize they don't need Instrumentality to feel connected with society.

That's probably why Kaji is the only squared-away individual. He knows what's going on, but he's content with his choices, and feels he belongs. He doesn't need Instrumentality (or alcohol, cats, a possible homosexual relationship with a co-worker, piloting an Eva, or the goal to screw Seele over) to be satisfied, and that's why he chooses to accept his life at an evolutionary dead-end. That is most likely the true meaning of Eva, that Anno had to convince himself of to avoid suicide.

Jonathan02us · Post by **Jonathan02us** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:17 pm

Toecutter wrote:They have names, you know. If you watch Episode 21, they cover who the major Section 2 guys are, and they use their names! Those would be the guys who would've delivered the fatal shot.

Kaji has to be the only sane person in the series. Ritsuko is as cut off from society as everyone else is in the series. The only difference is how she expresses it (with tons of cats, tinkering with the Evas/Magi, and talking to Maya). Even Maya, Makoto, and Shigeru are all nutty, anti-social bastards. You don't see them have lives outside of work at all.

You know, all the major people in NERV talk about having that feeling of loneliness inside them, that can't be solved unless Instrumentality takes place. Maybe if they actually got off their asses, and tried to interact with people, they would realize they don't need Instrumentality to feel connected with society.

That's probably why Kaji is the only squared-away individual. He knows what's going on, but he's content with his choices, and feels he belongs. He doesn't need Instrumentality (or alcohol, cats, a possible homosexual relationship with a co-worker, piloting an Eva, or the goal to screw Seele over) to be satisfied, and that's why he chooses to accept his life at an evolutionary dead-end. That is most likely the true meaning of Eva, that Anno had to convince himself of to avoid suicide.

Yeah i have to agree with Kaji being the only sane person in Eva ... the reason for that is because he seemed to be the only person not fighting himself mentally, unlike Shinji, Asuka, Rei, Misato, i could go on but i wont ... well anyways he wasnt worried about dying and all .. his last words to Misato was "take care of the "flowers"(watermelons) and that shinji knew were they were" ... he ended his life with words of peace and fullfilment ... he wasnt worried about anything like weither or not NERV would be shut down or weither SEELE was after him ... he was just calm and collected through out the whole series even though he knew wat was going to come ...

Yeah those people in SEELE talk about how lonely they were but they didnt do nothing about it ... they though that instrumentality would take care of everything ... i would have to agree that if they just got off their butt and did something about their lonelyness then they wouldnt have had to end everything ... they should have thought that not everyone was unhappy ... there were some people out there in the world that were just happy with the way things are ... wat they did was for personal reasons and they didnt really think about other people ... they cant solve everything themselves .. who do they think they r god ... i kno i kno they were trying to create a god for themselves o something like that but still ...

derek_t · Post by **derek_t** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:39 pm

Ok leaves one question

What about Shinji's father (forgot his name sorry). He wasn't lonely, he was married with a woman he loved. Oh the rest of society he seemed to be using controlling but hes different when he was with her. What are their motives for getting into this in the first place (be together forever?)

Jonathan02us · Post by **Jonathan02us** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:51 pm

derek_t wrote:Ok leaves one question

What about Shinji's father (forgot his name sorry). He wasn't lonely, he was married with a woman he loved. Oh the rest of society he seemed to be using controlling but hes different when he was with her. What are their motives for getting into this in the first place (be together forever?)

Well for starters ... i feel that shinji's father was very lonely .. ever since he lost his wife on that fateful day when that experiment went bad ... he changed .. his motives were changed ... his new plan would let him be with her again ... he just wouldnt let anyone inside him even his son ... he didnt want to show his real self where he was all weak and stuff .. he always had that look of seriousness ... he was just like shinji ...

Spoiler

Remeber in end where the world was gonna end and shinji's father said to his wife in that vision he saw before he was gonna die and said that he was wrong to keep distant with shinji and that he wasnt worth being loved because of the things he did ... he only said it to his wife ... he couldnt tell anyone else.

In the inside, he was weak and didnt want anyone else to get close to him ... he was a sad and lonely man ... i feel sorry for the dude

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:00 pm

I honestly don't feel any pity for the bastard, or any major NERV, Seele, UN, or JSSDF employee (soldiers included). They all threw away any ethical values to get what they wanted. Even Maya, who hated the thought of killing other people, turned against Shinji when he refused to destroy Unit-03 (with Touji inside).

They were all weak, manipulative scum. The show really needed an Alucard-style character to kick their asses in the end, and just laugh at their inferiority.