Gundam and Japan at War (OMG, a ligit topic!)

DJ_Izumi · Post by **DJ_Izumi** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:45 am

I'm a limited fan of the Gundam universe, not the largest fan by far, but I watch it if I can.

In someways, I've found Gundam to be corny, Char's Counter attack is a good case. Where dropping two colonies and an asteroid on earth is no biggie... But should there be a 2nd asteroid? OMG nuclear winter! :O

One common theme always exists, Gundam is most always about war, and almost all of those times, war and children/youth.

What I have noticed is that a Gundam War dosn't really look like the war we've seen in history books. We see starving families, burned out cities, the gruesome fighting in the battle of the buldge, and people on the homefront tightning their belts and collecting greese from cooking to help make explosives.

In Gundam, war dosn't seem much like this at all. The fighitng is almost always one sided, where as MS 1 whipes out 30 opposing MS's. While everyone on the homefront always seems REALLY detached from war, where it's not even a dinner time discussion issue. And Zion and Oz always seem to carry on like german WWI generals between battles.

Only slightly sad question: "There's going to be a war, isn't there?"
Droll response: "It seems so."

Now, this is something that always bothered me, Gundam always seems to be attempting to demonstrate the hell of war, but it often does a bad job about it. Band Of Brothers, now there is the hell of war. Finally, today while cutting potatoes to make french fries for lunch, I had a little apifiny. I've never seen anything about Japan's homefront, or how they lived with WWII. Well, excluding life after the bomb. Now I'm wondering if the way that Gundam has portrayed a life under war is similar to that of Japan's history, and would make a good discussion point. Any takers?

OtakuForLife · Post by **OtakuForLife** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:52 am

Well, many of the gundam series potary war as fun or at least
exciting with some attached probelms. The exception being my
two favorites 8th squad and 0082 with the little kid point of view.
As for my knowledge of japenese war history? I can't really give
you a deffinete answer to your question. Well, with the exception
of some famous samuati battles that really wouldn't be current
enough to matter.

OtakuForLife · Post by **OtakuForLife** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:53 am

Gomen Nasi typo's des

DJ_Izumi · Post by **DJ_Izumi** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:01 pm

My reasons for thinking this is obvious, since Gundam originates from Japan, the views of Japan have a chance of being the inspiration.

Though there's also a decent chance that the creators of Gundam just knew fuck all about war... Which would expline why the characters tend to be either completly apathetic to it, insane warmongering zealots, or clueless hero boys.

J-0080 · Post by **J-0080** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:18 pm

Considering most of the fighting (at least in GW and others I've seen) takes place in non-asian countries with mostly non-asian combatents, mayhaps in a way, they're portraying what they believed to be the angelo responce to war. Sort of like a subtle insult if you will.

Of course, I believe the more likley explenation to be that the writers simply did not include such detail, and only lightly touched areas that were not pertaining to the main characters.

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:21 pm

OK... just some thoughts.

1) The main theme of Gundam has always been that so long as mankind exists, there will be war. The Gundam titles are always about the fact that war is inevitable... there will always be war...

2) Your examples of people during war time don't really apply. Sure, in WW2, we were doing all we could to ration and tighten our belts... but most wars today don't have that same kind of impact. We sit back and weatch war on TV and often treat it like entertainment.

However... with Gundam... the stories are more about the cost of war on humanity... young men are turned into soldiers... they are turned into killers... and ost Gundam titles make the villains very sympathetic... that the men on each side are men simply following orders and doing what they think is right.

What I love about Gundam 0083 is that you have a main character who is trying to follow the ideals he has of what war is about... and yet, he is surrounded by political machinations, back stabbing, double crosses and confused purpose all through the series...

Gundam 0080 is my all time favorite Gundam titles (and one of my favorite animes) where we see a kid who glorifies war... thinks of it as a game... until he sees the real cost of war. The setting is a colony far from war... and yet, battle suddenly comes to the unaffiliated colony.

Sure... the battles are one sided...

but look at the US attack on Iraq... I mean... we have the technological and ecconomical edge... so yes... in a military conflict, we would win... and we did win the "fight"

but... as Gundam points out... the battles are not so cut and dry as saying "our side good... their side bad"... Gundam, like any other war-based series, asks us to think about the poor people caught in the middle. The poor civilians who lose homes and loved ones just because they happen to live in a town where a battle happens to take place.

Just some thoughts.

-Uncle Milo

DJ_Izumi · Post by **DJ_Izumi** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:37 pm

I suppose my mind has been poluted by WWII. WWII in europe was the 'Good war' where all sides were evenly matched, with none of that 'nuclear annhiliation' to mess things up. He he he.

But with Gundam, the one sidedness dosn't necessarily go to the good guy or the best equipted, it always seems to go to who ever is destine to win.

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:40 pm

Well... the WWII thinking makes perfect sense... I mean, come on.
With each new Gundam title, the Zion look more and more like Nazis.

-Uncle Milo

NineBirds · Post by **NineBirds** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:36 am

From what I've heard some people in Japan have never really accepted Japan lost in WWII. Japanese history books tend to skim over that fact, make excuses, and eliminate major defeats entirely . . . sort of as an honor issue. Portraying a vision of war that would in any way imply wrongdoing on the part of the "right" country--i.e. bombed out houses, starving families on either side--might be seen as somewhat treasonous, as the creators implying that a war fought for the honor or glory of a country is not necessarily a good one or that highlighting the gray area in war could be taken as cowardly and discouraging a battle for honor. (Maybe--input from someone with a real knowledge of Japanese culture would be appreciated)

That's part of the reason Grave of the Fireflies was so powerful. Isao Takahata provided a silent condemnation of how a complete focus on the war effort, the honor of the country, and the refusal to believe in a country's ability to lose creates a situation where individuals suffering from the consequences of the war can be thrown aside because they are percieved as useless or lazy.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:07 am

Now lets scamper away from GOTFF as FAST as we can.