Hatter vs. Tab: The Codec Grudge Match [SPLIT]

[AbsoluteDestiny]

K-lite codec pack?
OMGNOOB ROTFLMAO!!!!1

Eheh, had to get that out of my system

As laughable as it might sound, if you've got a codec, say a build of XVid, and it's not in there, 90% of computer users don't have it. It's all about distribution and "marketing" so to speak. Something no one at Doom9 has got.

Uhuh.

So, say you encode xvid and have it compatible with the divx decoder...

sorry, your argument doesn't work. Why? easy.

The majority of web users use Windows.

More windows users have divx installed than have direct show media player playback of mpeg2.

It's your SVCD distributions that need the k-lite codec pack, not divx compatible avi videos.

[Zarxrax]

Just wanna jump into the fray here. Sounds like you guys are having a blast.

You keep saying all these people release shit in ogm. Why don't I ever see anything in OGM? I have maybe 100 fansubs sitting on my pc right now. Not a single one is OGM. I have like 1 ogm file on my pc... a hentai...


You ask what matroska can offer that OGM doesnt? I'll name some things. Granted, most of the feature list is not implemented yet.

Variable framerate support. This is IMO, the killer app for this format. Nearly every anime these days has mixed 23.976 and 29.97 fps scenes. No longer will people have to choose one, and let part of the anime look weird, or resort to crap techiques like encoding the files at 120fps.

Aspect Ratio Correction. Use it just like dvds do.

Menu support. Nuff said.

File attatchments. Allows for attatching things like translation notes, or anything else that may be of importance.

CRC32 stuff. I don't know exactly what this is, but as I understand it, the file will be able to tell you whether it is corrupted or not.


And as far as becoming standard... Matroska is on it's way to having support in hardware players. Can you say that for OGM?

[jonmartensen]

SVCD is a video cd specification that was made in November of 1998. You encode an MPEG2 file and how you burn it to a cd makes and SVCD.

I have no qualms with following that standard if I burn movies or something onto cd's and want to be able to play them anywhere I go (it just takes several cd's to watch one whole movie). But if I'm going to have something that just I, or friends would watch, I would forgo the compatability issues and make something that is of the same quallity and fits on 1 cd. *shrugs*

If you're talking about compatability and online distribution, then just make a nice MPEG1 encode. People are going to be able to play MPEG2 files and Divx/Xvid files with equall ease (difficulty) when you are trying to reach a wide audience with a wide range of computing knowledge and computing power.


If you want a wide audience, go MPEG1
If your audience will consist of higher end users who want good quallity in a smaller file, go Divx/Xvid
If your audience will consist of higher end users who want good quallity in a larger file (that is easier to burn for your viewing pleasure), go with MPEG2



I honestly don't see what the big deal is :\

[Onideus_Mad_Hatter]

Uhuh.

So, say you encode xvid and have it compatible with the divx decoder...

sorry, your argument doesn't work. Why? easy.

The majority of web users use Windows.

More windows users have divx installed than have direct show media player playback of mpeg2.

It's your SVCD distributions that need the k-lite codec pack, not divx compatible avi videos.

Um, except for the fact that you seem to be missing the point of encoding in SVCD. When most people encode stuff in SVCD they're doing so because it's meant for distribution and playback on DVD players, not on the computer. And since most everyone has a DVD player, it doesn't require any skill to double click a .cue file and hit the "burn" button, it's better as far as reaching a wider audience. I mean I distribute a lot of media around town where I live, but nearly all my "customers" wouldn't even know what to do with the stuff if I just burned them a data CD with a bunch of XVid encodes. They'd be like, "Um...can this play on my DVD player?" I'd be like, "No, on your computer." Then they'd be like, "Uh...how does that work? Never mind, it sounds like too much trouble, I'll just use my ol VCR and tape the shit." You see my point? It's all about mass distribution. That and most people would rather curl up on their couch, just pop the disc into the DVD player and watch it like they watch a regular movie than having to sit in front of their computer, searching for codecs, downloading shit, wondering if their computer will be fast enough to handle it and then having to worry about this or that crashing every 5 minutes.

XVid, in most of it's incarnations can get better file size saving than MPEG-1 or 2, but then come on, blank CDs cost around 10 cents a pop these days, it's not like cramming 3 or 4 eps per disk than 1 or 2 is REALLY gonna bring down the house.

[Onideus_Mad_Hatter]

Just wanna jump into the fray here. Sounds like you guys are having a blast.

You keep saying all these people release shit in ogm. Why don't I ever see anything in OGM? I have maybe 100 fansubs sitting on my pc right now. Not a single one is OGM. I have like 1 ogm file on my pc... a hentai...

I've got quite a bit of stuff. Kinda various and random though. I've got Cat Girl Nuku Nuku in OGM. Tenchi Muyo and Tenchi Universe. Kiki's Delivery Service. E's Otherwise. Ranma 1/2 OAVs. The list goes on and on and more are being done with OGM every day. If you search for bit torrents and ogm you can get a pretty good idea of just how much the format is increasing in popularity, especially since it's playback was made so easy through the release of the k-lite codec pack.

You ask what matroska can offer that OGM doesnt? I'll name some things. Granted, most of the feature list is not implemented yet.

And no offense, but probably won't ever be.

Variable framerate support. This is IMO, the killer app for this format. Nearly every anime these days has mixed 23.976 and 29.97 fps scenes. No longer will people have to choose one, and let part of the anime look weird, or resort to crap techiques like encoding the files at 120fps.

I don't see that as being relevant even in the least bit. I mean if you're looking for perfection like that you should just be straight copying the DVDs or distributing the .vob files online.

Aspect Ratio Correction. Use it just like dvds do.

See above.

Menu support. Nuff said.

Again, the same thing, if you needed to have menu support, variable frame rates, aspect ratio correction, etc, etc, etc, you should just be straight ripping the DVDs, not reencoding the damn thing in XVid so you can try and save a couple hundred megabytes of space.

File attatchments. Allows for attatching things like translation notes, or anything else that may be of importance.

Which, in case it hasn't dawned on anybody could be a HUGE security risk. And considering the skill level of a lot of these "programmers" like Tobias, they're basically making targets just waiting to happen.

CRC32 stuff. I don't know exactly what this is, but as I understand it, the file will be able to tell you whether it is corrupted or not.

Irrelavent, since it's already covered through the distribution medium (bit torrents or rar files)

And as far as becoming standard... Matroska is on it's way to having support in hardware players. Can you say that for OGM?

What hardware players? And why on earth would ANYONE want that (besides people doing "illegal" things)? I mean that's why we have the DVD format. And the DVD format won't be replaced by Matroska because Matroska doesn't have shit as far as security features like DVD has. Trust me, that's the LAST thing hardware manufacturers are going to want to start including, because their business is directly dependant on the movie and television studios who CHOOSE to release their material for playback on their devices (ie using the DVD format).

[AbsoluteDestiny]

Um, except for the fact that you seem to be missing the point of encoding in SVCD. When most people encode stuff in SVCD they're doing so because it's meant for distribution and playback on DVD players, not on the computer.

Bullshit. DVD+/-R has greater compatibility on set top DVD players than SVCD burned on a CD. Not to mention the bitrate limitations of mpeg2 streams burned onto CD (due to the cd reading speed of most set top players being low).

I'm sorry, this is a bullshit argument as to why your net distributed encodes are superior. We are talking about formats distributed on the internet. In real life I produce DVDs of my music videos... much better for curling up on a couch to watch.

Your customers? Exactly how many amvs have you done commercially? At least I can say that there are thousands of people around the world that have a DVD with my editing work on.

I find it hysterical that you seem to think SVCD is unproblematic when in reality most western marketed DVD players have awful SVCD support.

Of course, this is all pointless because you're just back here to troll and you'll be banned again by the end of the week as your head explodes.

Remember you said you'd break the org? What's the matter, did you get tired chipping away with your spoon?

[AbsoluteDestiny]

I've got quite a bit of stuff. Kinda various and random though. I've got Cat Girl Nuku Nuku in OGM. Tenchi Muyo and Tenchi Universe. Kiki's Delivery Service. E's Otherwise. Ranma 1/2 OAVs.

Licensed shows. Not fansubs, warez boy.

I don't see that as being relevant even in the least bit. I mean if you're looking for perfection like that you should just be straight copying the DVDs or distributing the .vob files online.

vob files of things that are sourced from TV? What are you smoking, again?

[Tab.]

Ah Matt, just as NME predicted. You see, your habit is pretty predictable. You drop into these little communities and run around acting like an idiot, until someone challenges or insults you. Then you get upset.

NMEamv (8:01:18 PM): he's such a happy little retard
NMEamv (8:01:36 PM): he'll snap soon though
NMEamv (8:01:42 PM): someone will rub him the wrong way
NMEamv (8:01:48 PM): and he'll fill his little diaper
NMEamv (8:02:00 PM): and throw a hissy fit



Matt, do you have any clue how retarded you sound right now? Really? I mean, you went from basing your 'argument' on backwards fansub groups to codec packs. Are you begging to look like a moron?
Maybe you need someone to teach you about handling multimedia on your computer, but really, you don't have to persecute yourself that much to get a reaction You could just ask like any respectable n00b would.


Well, Matty, looks as if you need a dictionary again. Defunct. Look it up. I really don't know how to simplify it more for you.

Refined? K-lite refined anything? free cl00, cupcake, *snicker*, HELLO I'M NOT REPETETIVE, K-lite uses 0.9.9.6, tobias left off at .5, and 'n00bs' on doom did the rest.

Hey, free cl00, cupcake, ... wait
I don't encode?
oh

I seem to remember you having an issue with understanding DivX 3.11 back in April. Apparently you haven't gotten over that little mental block yet.

Not DivX 3.11, the program was FULLY capable of encoding at such bit rates, it was WELL within the specs. Basically the version of MPEG-4 it was ripped off from simply had a restriction on it that didn't allow it to encode outside of certain bit rates.

Oh, is that what happened.

Oh you mean the one you had encoded with some backwards lil ass crack of an Xvid encode? I'm all like, "What build of XVid is it?" And you're like, "Duh uh...I dunno, I gots it off teh Doom9 yo, kickazz!!!1!!".

LOL Matthew the concept you fail to realize here is called a standards body. Xvid had nothing to do with it. If you go back and look at that file, you have no way of knowing whether it was encoded with xvid, divx 5, 3ivx, quicktime, ffmpeg. You don't seem to have the abstract reasoning abilities necessary to grasp a standard like Mpeg 4. Come back and argue when you've hit formal operational Matty.

said my LATEST AMV, that would be Twist Of, not Forever.

Oh shit, I must have missed it. Forever is your masterpiece of lipsynching wonder anyway, so I'd think you'd have given it the awesome quality it deserves.

Your arguments about 'looking for perfect quality is useless' is meaningless. I don't need to produce. I already told you, I couldn't give a rat's ass about the online anime piracy business. It's bullshit. If I want to get stuck using restrictive formats and shitty encoding methods, I'll get a job in the field.
Yet again, produce or not, I actually understand this shit. Unlike 99% of the idiots out there doing your encodes who pick up GKnot and press a few buttons. I'm interested in the theory, not letting pricks on usenet get their daily highs off of some short skirted 12 year old.

Christ, you sound like some moron they pulled off the street to advertise k-lite. Two points I suggest you go figure out; DivX 3, and Mpeg 4 in general. You have no grasp and no understanding of what the two are, and yet you throw them in amidst your meaningless banter and start spouting shit that makes no sense in the context you attempt to apply it.



Ian, he just decided to let phade go for now. The AMV community is still some use to him. When he's done, he'll obliterate us. Along with mkv, mp4, xvid, and everything else he's too terminal to understand.

[inanitydishamen]

Don't forget that after he gets kicked around enough that the 'demon' in his 'head' gets the idea of making him leave (I say about half a month, it's a really stupid 'demon'; it'd have to be, to love combat and kiddie porn, diapers, etc) he will actually leave and go back to doing whatever he does. He'll then count this as another 'victory' (the 'demon' cannot admit defeat) and brag to everyone (a misnomer) about it. If he is in fact called on the fact that he was actually shamed into leaving the board he will respond with something like this:

'OMFG THAT WAS A TROLL *snicker* OMFG U WANTWIT IT WAS ALL A CAREFULLY PLANNED AND EXECUTED TROLL TO GET CLOSER TO MY IMPOSSIBLE PLAN OF WORLD DOMINATION *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* CUPCAKE *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* SUNSHINE *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* ASSCRICKET *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker* *snicker*'

I predict that in about 6 months he'll come back after leaving, and start the same cycle again.

Must be fun living the same thing over and over again in a bunch of internet places (Why else would he do it? No, wait, I'm looking for logic in his 'demon's' actions, fuck a duck, what am I thinking!? It's a rhetorical question, fuckwad)

[jonmartensen]