So You Want to Start a Revolution?

[iserlohn]

(Preface: I posted this about a month ago on my journals...it covers a lot of similar things to Nate's rants, but the truth is, I *have* done something about it. I've moved to another continent and stopped getting involved with this shit. The only reason I even bothered to read this post is because it's come up four times on my LJ friends and Nate's someone I consider a friend, and therefore I'm interested enough to read. If you ever want to start having fun with AMVs again, fuck the guides and do something with no short term deadline. Joke around with it, treat it like silly putty, etc. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to finish writing a translation on the merits of Sacher Torte before getting ready for Mega Manga Con....which doesn't even have AMVs on the program list, let alone any sort of dick measuring contest....)

(Note: I originally posted this with a heavily restricted lock on my LJ, things have since been revised. Since, as you may have guess from the title, and should understand by reading the whole way through, I'm going going to be around the org much anymore, leave your comments via email, forum msg (I'll log on when "You have a PM" notes start cluttering up my mailbox), or the corresponding open LJ thread. I've got anonymous user turned on, but please sign your handle or something at the end of a post. Thanks.)

When I started writing this, it was the day I turned 22. Birthdays are always a good time for reflection, and I used this one to look back at, not too unsurprisingly, AMV stuff. Sure enough, this led to looking at other things in my life, such as personal finance, academic criteria, employment, friendship, family, etc.

I've come to the conclusion that AMVs aren't doing what they used to for me. It really sucks, too. Just the sheer amount of time, energy, and sanity that I've lost on doing these projects is enough to keep anyone locked into doing it, just to feel justified. However, I just feel drained now. After three years and four months, things aren't working the way they used to. Ideas no longer flow like water, clips have stopped magically falling into place, and I find myself increasingly disappointed with what I've been able to do.

It doesn't help that I'm surrounded by the rest of the AMV community. This can be split into two groups of people, who shall each be dealt with separately.

The first group are the newbies. Yes, I know, everyone was new once. However, the newest school of new AMV creators are just so damned frustrating. They want their software, footage, technique, and awards handed to them on a platter. It doesn't work that way, people. If these people were to talk to anyone who's been at this for more than a year or two, they'd understand just how much it used to take just to get ahold of materials - and how much effort it can STILL take to get ahold of something when it's not listed on Amazon or available at the local Suncoast. I don't know anybody who's been doing AMVs for more than a couple years who hasn't had to either borrow or loan out source anime. Favor swapping was (and still is) a commodity, and it's always in your interest to have people on your side. I try my best to help others in this regard, but not blindly. Nobody ever says "Oh sure you can have 162 episodes of footage" because they're nice. They do it because they want something in return. This is how Hollywood works as well, folks.

And then there's the newschool attitude. I can remember in earlier days of the net when it was to your advantage to act like an adult even if you were only 15 - oh wait, it's STILL to your advantage. And yet people seem to forsake manners, grammar, and professionalism because it's the net. Oh, and these people forget how to deal with RL interaction as a result. The reason that the oldschoolers (not just in AMV but fandom in general) stick together is because they share more things in common with each other than the new fans. However, if you can get close to an oldschooler and start talking at their level (or even just ask about something they can relate to), they'll be some of the nicest people you meet at a con. Again, you can start earning favors by finding these people and being nice, making yourself a normal at events, and such. Bleh, I'm too focused on this aspect.

I'll also comment that these are the people we need to have around. New blood keeps things from getting stale and gives the established reason to panic and move forward towards the future and come up with new things. However, I blame the new generation of not just creators, but AMV fans for this now fanatical obsession with SFX and perfect A/V in videos. While shit-generation VHS source always was frowned upon, nowadays your video better look like it came straight off the DigiBeta or 16mm film prints, because you'll never go anywhere if it doesn't. Likewise, unless you're doing a dramatic or romance video, forget about getting recognition unless you've got editing up the ying yang and a photographic memory of the After Effects manual.

I'm hung up on the effects craze. I admit it. Heavy SFX are not my cup of tea. of course, there's good reason for this: Instead of coming from (or in most cases wanting to heards toward) a film focus, I was raised on theatre. I love the stage, and the fact that everything has to be done live limits what you're able to do. You can't CG the plant in Little Shop of Horrors on Broadway, you have to call in the Creature Shop to make you one and get four puppeteers to work in sync to make it come to life. Everything has to be real, everything has to have a manual backup, and everything has to be carried across when the show is produced ten years later by a no-budget amateur house who won't have fancy sets or props. In a theatrical background, the script is number one - it has to survive in the face of bad everything else. Then come the performers and the techies who work together to create the images and sounds before you. However, techies are only optional in theatre. You could have five people on an empty stage with scripts in hand performing a play and, if they're talented, it'll still be a brilliant performance.

This doesn't get respected by 95% of people in the AMV world. Period. What makes that fact pathetic is that AMVs will NOT get you steady full time work in the film/video industry. Most of the truly oldschoolers with A/V jobs nowadays were in school for film studies. Those who are newer had other real world experience first.

There's another reason that I don't care much for fancy effects, although it's more a personal reason. This is my hobby. I do it because I enjoy seeing anime I like and want others to see set to music I like and want others to hear. I like being able to tell a story, present a feeling, broaden peoples' horizons beyond ClearChannel and Cartoon Network. Doing videos where I repaint every frame in Photoshop and make my own fireworks complete with smoke trails requires more of a time and sanity commitment than I want to give to something I do for fun. I already spend an inordinate amount of money on my videos (Bravo Drano cost $80 just to buy all the CDs. If I hadn't been able to borrow source and/or have fansubs handy, it would have been at least twice that to buy the video. My next video has set me back $53 just for a single VHS tape), the thought of learning pro-grade effects work is a turnoff to me when I can spend my time watching the anime I love. Unfortunately, dancing Vash and tambourine playing Sumomo will get a bigger crowd on your side, and we live in an age of one-hit wonders so making a hit video using a mainstream title will rarely get your obscure-focused stuff noticed.

Now that the younguns are out of the way, let's talk about the mid-to-oldschoolers. These are the people I know better. I talk to a handful of them regularly, and I've met almost all of the people you've ever heard of from before 2001 in AMV. I've shared panel tables, hotel rooms, meals, drinks, and even my home with them. And yet the interpersonal dynamics suck on both ends. At least they do in my eyes. While I don't let people crash in my house because I want to get ahead or curry favor (I like having people over. It gives me an excuse to clean and breaks up the monotony in my otherwise non-existant social life), I wonder if I'd be on the level I am now without supplying people with tapes, offering crash space, etc.

This really does nag at me too. It really became clear one night while talking to Nightowl while working on "...are some answers" and we collectively reached a conclusion. For those who don't know, either because they don't give a rats ass about my work, skipped the liner notes, or didn't quite get the underlying theme of the video, it's a piece about Frustration. In fact, so was Bravo Drano, my not-so-subtle take on how to make an award winning video - or more specifically, how to make a video that puts award winning tricks so in your face that you get turned off by them. Again, frustration. But WHY?!

But to get back on topic. Why do I get annoyed with the olderschoolers, who are on the whole more mature and on my intellectual level than the newschoolers? Because I'm sick of reading LJs that bitch about obsessive fans. About "ugh, I have to get a better host because I went over my 20GB bandwidth limit in 36 hours." About "I just won three more awards, where am I going to put them?". Or, my favorite, "My new video only got 40 reviews and 300 star grades. What happened?". I'm happy for you people. Really, I am. I'm glad that people I consider friends/acquaintences/non-hostiles have made it. I don't begrudge people who have worked hard and made something interesting success. However, it's irritating when I have to hear about it as well on IM, the forums, the AMV-ML, and everywhere else these people are. IM is the worst, because it's like a personal reminder that no, I'm still not there yet.

This is why we hide behind grouping people together with terms like "Teh 1337", etc. It's a way of trying to put them off to the side and distance them in an attempt to hide our own inadequacies. I'm pissed that I don't have a huge list of AMV awards, tons of reviews, a spot or seven on the top 100 chart, and so on, BECAUSE VIRTUALLY EVERYONE ELSE I KNOW DOES. And it seems like no matter what I want to do, no matter what I try, no matter what other things I work on, it will never be enough. This doesn't make me special, and the sad truth is that this is where most people will spend the majority of their careers, both in AMV, the real entertainment business, office jobs, and so on. What irks me is that I've worked hard to transcend this through alternative methods.

For those not in the know, I've been on AMV panels at multiple cons, one of which being the largest in the country, but it doesn't matter since it's not appealing to the majority of AMV viewers and trend seekers/makers. However, THIS DOES NOT MEAN BY ANY CHANCE THAT I WANT TO STOP PANELLING. Doing panels has helped me find a focus beyond fandom, and reaffirmed that yes, I could have a future as an educator, even if it's one with a bit of a temper and a few quirky traits. And yes, I'll admit, I may not have recognition, but I must have done something right to have earned $180 or so worth of free convention badges and hotel stays (Thank you AnimeUSA 2002 for providing a large and disproportionate amount of that).

And then there's the contest circuit. If you can really call it that anymore. While there have been cross-entries before due to major (and not-so-major but accessible) events having their deadlines so close together, this year showed just how easy it is to become a troll. With increasingly centralized contest compilation across the nation, it's now possible for one person to submit one video to as many a 6-8 contests at once with just a few mouse clicks. We are, as a good friend put it, on the verge of cookie-cutter contests where no matter what con you go to, a significant number of the entires will be the same. There is still a good handful of cons in the States that aren't using this system nowadays, the two largest being AX and Katsucon, neither of which has the best reputation historically for AMV (although both have come a long way in the past year towards rectifying the situation). Still, for the majority of creators, the nearest sizeable con is handled through this manner of submission. What does it mean for someone trying to get some attention? It means that the already limited amount of fame, respect, and notice for a creator to get shrinks as it gets easier for one video to take awards at numerous events (the creator doesn't even need to pay for postage on all those tapes anymore, uploads are free). While this was possible before, it wasn't practical. Now it is.

At least I have a solution for this problem: tier AMV contests like cosplay so that you have novice, journeyman, and expert (I refrain from using the term "master" intentionally) grades. Of course, who's going to go watch the novice contest? Then again, a lot of higher up creators in the second tier don't have many (if any) awards, so there could be some good stuff there if people are willing to do what they show less and less desire to do - make an effort to find it.

The other option was thrown around on the AMV discussion list and I have to agree with it as well: require preregistration for the convention to participate in the proper contest. Exhibition (non-competing) screenings should be done for whoever wants to submit, but save the awards for the people who are willing to support the event giving them their exposure.

Now we come upon the point in the rant where I predict top responses from the readers - "Why keep doing AMVs if they're pissing you off so much?" and "Who cares about fame, don't you edit for yourself? You're supposed to...". I shall answer both questions in the same long and unwieldy paragraph. I continue to edit because, well, I like editing. Even if Premiere pisses the living fuck out of me and makes me curse like a sailor at my computer, I still like having something new and interesting to look at when I go to bed, and the fact that I made it makes me happy. Unless something's not right. Being both a perfectionist and my own toughest critic means having an obsessive desire to make things RIGHT. And if they're NOT RIGHT then something is wrong, and it can be maddening trying to fix it. As for fame, I'm not going to lie. Everyone wants an ego boost. I used to say that I edited for me, and that fans didn't matter, since the people who got what I was trying to do would appreciate it all the more. I still edit ideas that I want to do (I will never make dancing Chobits videos), and I still think that a solid AMV is a great advertisement for an underappreciated or unknown anime. It's just that I know better now than to think people will seek this kind of thing out. It's like offering 100 people the chance to see Lola Rennt or Jurassic Park 3. Even though Lola is the better film, it's an art flick. It has subtitles. People would rather deal with the crap script and see dinosaurs eat people. Likewise, fans who don't care much for artsy anime won't give two shits about a Kenji's Spring video. I hate the fact that I seem to wow just about everyone who sees that thing despite knowing that it will never be famous, never reach the top of the charts, and get buried beneath a boring Kenshin video with a semi-catchy song and a few flashy effects. I guess that in the end I take reactions to my work personally - maybe even a bit too much - and I feel that unless people know I did something, why bother listing/posting it? And since AMV is a public-oriented section of fandom (as opposed to, say, cel collecting or the majority of peoples' robot modelling habits), the power to set your moods and desires is in the hands of other people, the majority of whom are likely to be the sort you don't want having that kind of control.

I really do try to keep my rants focused, and, if you haven't guessed by now, this one does lead somewhere. It leads to me leaving the sources of my angst, annoyances, and frustrations behind. While I don't plan on retiring from AMV making in the immediate future, I doubt that I'll be around much longer. I'm counting two more solid ideas and one more idea that's shaky but has potential after I finish the series, but after that I'm pretty tapped out. On the other hand, the amount of time I put into a project nowadays means that these three videos could keep me occupied for two years or so. I've also got the gear now to make my own damn footage, so I'm sure as hell not giving up video stuff in general.

What I *am* giving up in the near future is the "community". I originally planned to post this to the org the day before I left for Europe, but thanks to Hurricane Isabel I was unable to. Posting on the day after AWA would have been acceptible, but hell hath no bureaucracy like trying to get a student account from a WiFi provider without a state issued matriculation number, so this is getting posted after I've already done the deed - I haven't checked the org forums in already two weeks now except to make this post, and feel as though I've lost nothing from it. For those interested, though, I will continue to update my LiveJournal, be accessible by email and AIM, and attend conventions (albeit in the Germany/Austrian scene, not the American one), but I won't be reading any of the a-m-v.org forums or the AMV ML, and will probably shift to a "skim-only" mode, if not outright skipping things when I read others' LJ posts on AMV stuff. I'm hoping that the change of location and pacing, as well as the lack of pressure from unwilling-to-think viewers, fads, trends, cons, and higher ups in the scene will provide some peace and vision and a renewed creative spark.

It's time I had some time alone.

[WilLoW :--)]

You left your country because of AMVs ???
And you think that the problem comes from the org ?

Hey, wait a minute...While I read this thread, I can't stop thinking that people who take this stuff so seriously are totally mad !
We're a bunch of otakus making videos for fun (what are your problem btw with people who actually enjoy to make good quality videos, and those who use effects ?)...

If you're tired of the community, just leave, and that's all. Yes, you predicted that we would say that, but I really don't understand...

Why do you guys come on this forum to say that you don't like this website and its members anymore ?
Just leave. It's not the real life, there are butterflies and nice girls in the real world. If you want to make AMVs without being involved in the community, just do it.

WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM ???
leave the org. Don't say "Hey, LOOK AT ME, I'm leaving". What's the point of that ? The only ones who would care are your real friends, and you have other ways to tell that to them...maybe they don't even care because they're not involved in AMV ?

Hey, look at me I won't watch this topic Anymore !!!!
And I think this topic was far better in the good old days, and I'll leave my country, to go to another one where I won't be made to connect to the internet. Because yes, I'm controlled by a mutant who urges me to connect everyday to animemusicvideos.org...

[Jebadia]

Indeed...

yup thats all I have to say...

[Kusoyaro]

The other thing you seem to be advocating sounds like a Dogme 95 "vow of chastity" for AMV directors. It's a recipe for artsy pretension. If that's what you want, go for it.

Nate and I had actually discussed that exact thing several months back. I don't see how it's a "recipe for artsy pretension." All it would mean is that editors would go back to focusing on the story and energy of an AMV through simple cuts and fades, letting the footage and the music tell the story...rather than matching every tick and drumbeat with a moving square or lens flare.

When I edit, if I really get into it, there's energy and flow, both in my editing, and in the AMV that I'm making. If I then stop to make a complicated effect, everything stops dead in its tracks, and I lose focus of where my editing was going. It seems like a lot of people nowadays start with the effects, and with no focus or flow in their concept.

Too many times nowadays, I'll see a video where the editor clearly doesn't know what to do with a certain part of a song, so he throws all this random effects crap on the screen. How about taking the time to find a clip that fits? Sure, maybe that particular part of the song is odd, but isn't that what creativity is all about? Hell, back before white flashes became commonplace, if there was a section with a lot of hard, repeated beats, the thing to do was to find a clip with lots of motion or action in it. Sitting down with the attitude that you want to match the music as closely to the footage as possible is a totally different editing experience than knowing that you can just deal with oddities in the music by putting in an effect.

As for tech issues such as video quality...I say, unless the video quality is so bad that it's distracting (ie, static lines randomly popping up) or you can't even see what's going on in the clip, stop complaining People should be making videos because THEY want to, so if they want to spend 30 hours making their video, and only 3 minutes making a web distro version, deal with it. The better videos tend to be ones that the creator makes for themself, not for mass consumption.

I don't have much to say about the stupid "class consciousness" thing that's been plaguing the community these past few years. Everybody knows that paizuri is the king of AMVs anyway

[OtakuForLife]

Yeah, while I should have been studing for Japanese class or maybe
history these posts cuaght my eye. Thier are some serius problems with the org internally as far as new-members and the AMV mentalty in general . But, hopefully time will clear away these problems and filter the clutter that distrubs most of the older members. I for one try to find
a message in every AMV I make. Otherwise it's just clip throws or a pretty collage that has almost no real value.
As for AMV production, I'm getting close to my breaking point. Spending months with an alien software. When I'm going through college and trying to have a social life gets very taxing. Having to use the
right capture codecs, encodes and such is to normal guy like myself
a foreign language (try reading the guides when you have a very basic video knowledge). Now it seems I need to learn after effects to get
anywhere. It seems that the hobby I once did for fun is becoming a mind consuming monster.
So, I will slowly retreat back from it, by training a few others who have new ideas and finish my last couple amvs and be on my way just as
I have done with so many other hobbys. MAGIC, Poerty .etc
Becuase, when the fun dies... It's not worth doing anymore.

(hope I'm not rambbing)

[UncleMilo]

Bravo, Nightowl, Bravo.

-Uncle Milo

[Leanan]

I really appreciate that you wrote all of that out because a lot of that is a reflection of how I've been feeling for a bit. I've kind of been in the background for a little over two years now, enjoying videos by others and making a few myself. I started questioning myself on my last video because I didn't want to release it because it didn't have 100% all dvd ripped footage. Then I was just like screw it, I made this video and hopefully people will like it even if it's not what some would consider perfect quality. So I released it and no one really cared about that. So I think I was putting a lot of pressure on myself for it to hit some standard which was stupid.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[iserlohn]

You left your country because of AMVs ???
And you think that the problem comes from the org ? :shock:

No. I left the USA because I couldn't find a job and the universities were overcrowded. I'm in Vienna to lay down some credits towards a Magister level degree and work on my Deutsch fluency. However, the anime scene in Wien is totally different than that in the USA. There's no centralized clubs, cons are smaller, etc. A lot of the shit on the forums and in the US circuit doesn't exist here, and the amount of stress that con competition, forum crap, etc. was affecting enjoyment of the hobby was enough that I wanted nothing to do with it anymore. However, I've stepped back, stopped following the forums (except for now this thread which I'll see through), and have started working on a new project and you know what? I'm having a shitload more fun on this project than I have for over a year of editing.

Hey, wait a minute...While I read this thread, I can't stop thinking that people who take this stuff so seriously are totally mad !
We're a bunch of otakus making videos for fun (what are your problem btw with people who actually enjoy to make good quality videos, and those who use effects ?)...

I don't think most people are into it for the same reasons that they used to be. It's gotten to be more about the competition and celebrity than it has about "I like anime. I like music. There's something there between them." Effects are fine and dandy when they are used as a modifier, but they can not stand alone and too many people are trying to make the latter happen.

If you're tired of the community, just leave, and that's all. Yes, you predicted that we would say that, but I really don't understand...

It's not always that simple. Of the 123 people on my AIM list, 40 of them are AMV people. I've got a similar of not greater proportion on my LiveJournal friends. It's hard not to be dragged into "community" issues when you know so many of the parties involved in the bullshit.

Why do you guys come on this forum to say that you don't like this website and its members anymore ?

I will make a comparison to a true story. A friend of mine is the president of his university's anime society. He's been president for over a year now and was vice president for a year and a half before that. He's worked his ass off for the club, and now he wants to resign. Why? Because nobody gives a shit about helping out, including all but one of his fellow officers and the entire "staff". He's doing everything but carrying a 2m high sign that says "If you don't start getting responsible with the club I'm going to resign" and still nobody gives a shit and still he keeps working his ass off. Why? Because he *DOES* give a shit and because he knows that if people shape up things will get better for not just his sanity, but the club. It's an issue of knowing that things can be better and wanting to fix the problems, but not getting any help.

Just leave. It's not the real life, there are butterflies and nice girls in the real world. If you want to make AMVs without being involved in the community, just do it.

Hey, look at me I won't watch this topic Anymore !!!!

Thank the gods.[/quote]

[Zarxrax]

The amv community has gone to hell. The cosplay community has gone to hell. The fansubbing community has gone to hell. The world has gone to hell.

Oh, HAS IT, now?

Its easy to look at a community, think about what it used to be like in the old days, how everything was great, everything was perfect, when in reality, everything used to suck ass.

So people dont like your encoding? Haven't they always? Is this really something new? So people actually care about the top 10%, and the scores and crap? Haven't they always? Newbies get flamed for asking a simple question. Haven't they always?

I think the org has improved greatly since it's conception. The golden donut allows me to see many amvs that I would have never had the oportunity to see otherwise. The top10% list actually contains mostly good videos now, so newbies can find something nice to watch. Same thing for the top stars list. These are great things for people that like to WATCH videos. More new people on the forums, more new people to meet and become friends with.

I can proudly say that this is my favorite, most usefull website I have ever come across, and it's getting better all the time. Sometimes stuff might happen that gets to you... but thats life. You deal with it, and go back to having fun. Sometimes it's easy to forget the part about having fun though.

[SarahtheBoring]

It's not that the world has gone to hell; it's just that people finally start seeing the entire picture instead of just the parts they saw at first. So they see it's not all shiny perfect and freak out.

IMO, everything in life has an upside and downside. The org as a site has improved even in the very brief time I've been here. However, the community is bitchy and annoying. (My presence here insures that, if nothing else. )

If the positives outweigh the negatives for you, great; stay. If not, fuck it. It's not worth worrying over.

Though Zarxrax, there's no way I can possibly take your post seriously with that avatar.