Before I post this insanely long message, I would like to write a prologue, just to set the mood. This post was, initially, a response to the "Is there even a purpose to the sound rating? thread. I felt the subject was a catalyst for everything that's wrong with what some of us choose to call the AMV community today.
After typing it out, I decided there were too many off topic remarks to simply tail end it to that thread. I read it over, and though, perhaps, it would be foolish to post it haphazardly onto the forum. So I went to MexicanJunior and AbsoluteDestiny for help. I had them both read it, and give me some feedback. They had both positive and negative points that were very helpful in the decision making process. Ultimately, I decided some of these things needed to be said.
I haven't covered every complaint a lot of forum members have today, though I feel as though this is a good starting point. We'll see what happens.
It is important to note that although I address codecs a bit, this is nothing against the guides. I see the guides as just that - stepping stones should one need help. Ultimately, every editor needs to find their own style of capture and process. I rarely rip DVDs, I'll admit - I only have recently to try to get "better scores" on the opinions. I realized this was meaningless. I do still use the guides to help with MPEG prep in TMPEG-Enc (and note, this is one of the Mac defenders - I am, without a doubt, one who enjoys playing both sides of any situation).
Also, due to the size of the post, I needed to break it into segments. When you reach the end of one post, just go on to the next. When you get to the -N, it's finally over. It's a long read for these forums, so be prepared.
I believe these are all the addendum disclaimers I need so, here it is, the post that just may kill me.
So You Want to Start a Revolution?
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Nightowl
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 2:54 pm
Part 1
Disclaimer: this post attacks non of the posters in this thread. I am not aware of who, specifically, is and is not guilty of what I'm about to speak about. All I know is this thread brought up a very sore issue with me, and I'm going to rant about it.
Also, don't get me wrong as far as opinions go - they are there, and they aren't moving. They're opinions, and your opinion is your opinion, even if you're misinformed. The sad part is when someone refuses to learn that they're misinformed.
Furthermore, there are some awful "newbies," just as there are awful members who have been here for many years. Most of the things I've written are generalizations, so that I may address the entire community
You know, in the video/audio compression world, you can't win. Never happens. Unless, of course, you make one of those videos that's so popular you get bunches of mindless zombies glinding toward the opinion button whilst drooling. Even then, someone out there is gonna give you a one on something, just because your that big thing and it's cool and anti-establishment to hate it, thereby making YOU cool. No one can win.
Use a certain audio or video codec? Maybe a Mac user can't use it. Or a PC user (less likely, but it DOES happen). Let's say you do upload a video with 5.1 - what if one person doesn't know how to play it? One. I remember before the days I had a Windows machine, I couldn't DL half the videos on this site because they were all divx and Mac, at the time, had shit for divx tools. Other times, the audio codec would be encoded oddly, corrupting the entire file. That's why I stopped downloading videos entirely.
So, let's say you do want to reach as many people as possible. Can't use Quicktime, too many Windows users hate it. Can't use Windows Media, Mac users hate it - same goes for AVI, more often than not, on the Mac. Uncompressed seems to work, but hell, you never know what kind of codec you're going to get because, like Quicktime, it's simply a canister.
I can't even speak for Linux users... guess I'll have to set Linux up on a system now as well. Make sure everyone is happy. Do they just use AVI as well? After reading a few things from Linux users on various forums I've found many seem to be more vicious toward Windows than some Mac users... anyway, that's few and far between.
So you have millions of formats. And out of all these codecs, all these amazing new systems, what's the most compatible format there is? MPEG. You want to make the vast majority happy, encode an MPEG with the audio in MP2. It'll take awhile to make sure your video is absolutely perfect, best you can get at a resonable filesize (because, you know, not all people have cable modems, DSL, T1, T3, etc., etc. There are some poor folk in this world, Johnny computer-nut).
So you do your god-DAMN'dest to create a file that ALL people can view, that ALL people can download, that ALL people can reasonably appreciate on EVERY system because you SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY OR BADWIDTH TO DEAL WITH 8 SEPERATE FILES. And you know what?
PEOPLE WILL STILL HATE IT.
Somewhere out there will give you a one and suggest you use the next best thing audio and video formats, regardless of the fact only half - nay, one-third - of your audience uses this brand new god codec at the time.
If only two people can see your video, who gives a flying fuck if it's DVD quality?
I would rather get one thousand reviews that say my video changed their life but the audio and video weren't that great than two high school kids that say "u r teh siht yo lolololol!!!!1 tats hti wuz da r0xx0rZ!!!!1111" with all tens. But you know what? They're you're audience too. If they can watch the best quality out there, they can deal with a fucking MPEG.
Most videos aren't truly meant for online distribution. When I first got on the .org and read the categories of opinion, when I thought of video quality, I didn't think, "Did he/she do reverse frame reversal transcoder super duper de-rede-interlace 23.9994449493 aproximation back to 24 native YUV RGB FLP flippity flee bat signal dee doo? NO?! FUCK HIM/HER! He/She gets a FUCKING 1!!" No, I thought, "Does the video look good to my eye? Yes. 9." Perhaps, "Hmm... there's a bit of artifacting, and that IRE level needs to be corrected... whatever, maybe this person made due with what they could... obviously VHS... eh, 7."
If you've gotten this far, you're special. If you've actually read EVERYTHING above this line, congratulations, you can add the ability to read to your resume.
Out of the tiny amount of reviews I've done, I didn't know the setup of only one editor. And that was a pretty bad video. I would find out about these videos from their creators or from friends, asking questions, and I would judge them based on what the best possible quality they could get out of their footage/capture option at the time of production. What if all they could get was a cheep subbed copy of Eva and he/she made a brilliant video? You're obviously not going to give them a 10, but for christ's sake, would you at least read the fucking video information before posting your menial little opinion?
Also, don't get me wrong as far as opinions go - they are there, and they aren't moving. They're opinions, and your opinion is your opinion, even if you're misinformed. The sad part is when someone refuses to learn that they're misinformed.
Furthermore, there are some awful "newbies," just as there are awful members who have been here for many years. Most of the things I've written are generalizations, so that I may address the entire community
You know, in the video/audio compression world, you can't win. Never happens. Unless, of course, you make one of those videos that's so popular you get bunches of mindless zombies glinding toward the opinion button whilst drooling. Even then, someone out there is gonna give you a one on something, just because your that big thing and it's cool and anti-establishment to hate it, thereby making YOU cool. No one can win.
Use a certain audio or video codec? Maybe a Mac user can't use it. Or a PC user (less likely, but it DOES happen). Let's say you do upload a video with 5.1 - what if one person doesn't know how to play it? One. I remember before the days I had a Windows machine, I couldn't DL half the videos on this site because they were all divx and Mac, at the time, had shit for divx tools. Other times, the audio codec would be encoded oddly, corrupting the entire file. That's why I stopped downloading videos entirely.
So, let's say you do want to reach as many people as possible. Can't use Quicktime, too many Windows users hate it. Can't use Windows Media, Mac users hate it - same goes for AVI, more often than not, on the Mac. Uncompressed seems to work, but hell, you never know what kind of codec you're going to get because, like Quicktime, it's simply a canister.
I can't even speak for Linux users... guess I'll have to set Linux up on a system now as well. Make sure everyone is happy. Do they just use AVI as well? After reading a few things from Linux users on various forums I've found many seem to be more vicious toward Windows than some Mac users... anyway, that's few and far between.
So you have millions of formats. And out of all these codecs, all these amazing new systems, what's the most compatible format there is? MPEG. You want to make the vast majority happy, encode an MPEG with the audio in MP2. It'll take awhile to make sure your video is absolutely perfect, best you can get at a resonable filesize (because, you know, not all people have cable modems, DSL, T1, T3, etc., etc. There are some poor folk in this world, Johnny computer-nut).
So you do your god-DAMN'dest to create a file that ALL people can view, that ALL people can download, that ALL people can reasonably appreciate on EVERY system because you SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY OR BADWIDTH TO DEAL WITH 8 SEPERATE FILES. And you know what?
PEOPLE WILL STILL HATE IT.
Somewhere out there will give you a one and suggest you use the next best thing audio and video formats, regardless of the fact only half - nay, one-third - of your audience uses this brand new god codec at the time.
If only two people can see your video, who gives a flying fuck if it's DVD quality?
I would rather get one thousand reviews that say my video changed their life but the audio and video weren't that great than two high school kids that say "u r teh siht yo lolololol!!!!1 tats hti wuz da r0xx0rZ!!!!1111" with all tens. But you know what? They're you're audience too. If they can watch the best quality out there, they can deal with a fucking MPEG.
Most videos aren't truly meant for online distribution. When I first got on the .org and read the categories of opinion, when I thought of video quality, I didn't think, "Did he/she do reverse frame reversal transcoder super duper de-rede-interlace 23.9994449493 aproximation back to 24 native YUV RGB FLP flippity flee bat signal dee doo? NO?! FUCK HIM/HER! He/She gets a FUCKING 1!!" No, I thought, "Does the video look good to my eye? Yes. 9." Perhaps, "Hmm... there's a bit of artifacting, and that IRE level needs to be corrected... whatever, maybe this person made due with what they could... obviously VHS... eh, 7."
If you've gotten this far, you're special. If you've actually read EVERYTHING above this line, congratulations, you can add the ability to read to your resume.
Out of the tiny amount of reviews I've done, I didn't know the setup of only one editor. And that was a pretty bad video. I would find out about these videos from their creators or from friends, asking questions, and I would judge them based on what the best possible quality they could get out of their footage/capture option at the time of production. What if all they could get was a cheep subbed copy of Eva and he/she made a brilliant video? You're obviously not going to give them a 10, but for christ's sake, would you at least read the fucking video information before posting your menial little opinion?
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Nightowl
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 2:54 pm
Oh, ANOTHER DISCLAIMER:
Keep in mind, I am GENERALIZING. Don't come on here responding to this post with a "But I don't do that..." comment. It's like that guy in a feminism class. There's always one guy in a feminism class. When they begin to talk about the women's movement and women's suffrage or ANYTHING that criticizes men in any particular way, the man always speaks up. He always says, "Well, I'm not like that, I've never raped or beat a woman - why do you feminists always hate men?" And the women in the class then get to comfort Mr. Guy. Feminists DON'T always hate men. It's a generalization for the sake of time. Would you prefer, "Men are more often than not sexist - except for Jim Browning in San Antonio, Texas; Carl Weatherman in St. Jude, Maine; Bobby Granger in Missoula, Montana..." It would go on forever.
I RARELY attack people by name. More often than not, it's rude.
This post broke something in me. It's been bulding up for awhile, but I never let a true, HUGE rant out until now. I have ranted before, but I'm just tired of the bullshit. It finally ebbed at AWA and now, I'm letting it out.
I believe the topic of this post is that little lump in the community that grows out into a cancer and eventually kills you.
You know what? We've become the cosplay community (credit to Mike Barranti, as well, for discussing that little pitfall). There are petty politics, groups that mock other groups, little turf wars, fights between individuals over inane bullshit. Some people still ask, where is Joe Croasdaile? Where is EK? Why did they leave the site? Perhaps partly due to a loss of passion, yes (and mayhaps one or the other may send me an email saying shut up, don't drag me into this, I'm out), but a good majority of it had to do with the fact that this community has become trite and petty.
It all started with codecs. If you don't use the codec I use, you aren't using the right codec. If it isn't MPEG-2 quality, you get a shit review. Fuck you! There are so many formats out there right now, who's to say what's right? Microsoft would love you to support something they developed, as would Apple. They want your money. AMD could give a fuck if some fat little kid is bashing the G5 saying the Opteron could whip it's ass in benchmarks. Apple truly does not care if some guy uses Macs and ONLY Macs. Intel REALLY doesn't give a fuck if you switch - they practically own the world. You gave them your money. That's all they needed.
Has anyone seen all of the tape based formats out there right now? BetaSP use to be the standard. Now we have miniDV, DVCAM, DVCPRO (which, I believe, is simply D1), D9, D7 (which could be DVCAM, but then, Sony changes the names of their products so often, does it really matter), D20, HD, HDTV, HDSTV, HDTYEV, HDYUVRGBSTFU; hell, some people in the mid-west still use U-Matic. VHS, DVD - in DVD there's dual sided, 5, 9, 18, 6894323; not to mention all the different ways to encode MPEG-2. Right now, we're all standing at a crossroads. Media IS changing. I've had clients shoot on miniDV and ask for a DVCPRO tape. These same clients have shot on BetaSP and brought it back to miniDV. God knows why... Everyone is confused. Every company is trying to come up with the next HUGE thing, the de-facto standard. Sony is scared that BetaSP is going to be replaced, so they created DVCAM to compete against DVCPRO, which Panasonic created hoping it would replace BetaSP. At the end of the road is HD in its various formats. So, which super high end expensive deck should someone go with? Can't get em all, most of them cost between $10,000 and $100,000. Then there's that other question - Analog, or SDI? Both use component... SDI seems to be the wave of the future, but the majority of my clients still want BetaSP, NOT DigiBeta... what IS a boy to do?
None of that had a goddamned thing to do with AMVs, as most AMV creators can't sfford any of that stuff. What I am trying to demonstrate, however, is the fact that there is no de-facto codec for either audio or video. We're still all making hack, illegal videos (don't get in on this argument, it's stupid, and it comes up every damned day, just trust me). There are so many different codecs out there right now, but no standard. Thus far, the only format I've found that reachest the widest audience possible is MPEG. It has been, and until someone develops a good codec for all the OSes out there, it will continue to be. Of course, the best part is that, no matter how you encode your MPEG - even if you got the TOP most WELL RESPECTED CREATOR on the site (whoever that may be, I honestly don't know) who has gotten consistent 10s on both audio and video compression to compress your video for you, you would probably still get shit "grades" because his name is not next to your video. And it truly doesn't matter if you mention that in the video information, as nobody reads that shit anyway, just as nobody will read this book.
I'm just tired of all this bullshit. It has completely killed that passion, the reason I got into AMVs in the first place - that thrill, if you will. I'm tired of a great many things in this forum. I'm tired of coming on and seeing somebody post a "Where can I find this video?" thread...
...You really think I'm going to side with the people who hate those people? NO. I'm REALLY fucking tired of seeing someone who has been on the site for a MONTH post back "stfu newb, search lol." You know, fuck you cocky dick. Most of the geeks on this site liked Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - did you learn nothing from it?! You were a "newbie" (a term I've come to loathe) at one point - didn't someone help your sorry ass? Maybe the person DID try to search. Maybe they accidently spelled a word wrong. Maybe they assumed the creator's name was two words, not compressed into one, because they haven't been on the internet long enough to LEARN HOW TO TYPE. Maybe they're retarded, autistic, mentally challenged, physically challenged, psychologically fucking challenged or dyslexic. But no, YOU can't USE the benefit of the doubt. You have to be a rude cock.
Christ, maybe the person was just too excited to get talking with AMV creators because the kid is 9 years old and saw his first DBZ or Pokemon music video and LOVED it because that's the show his parents let him watch on TV. Were you people not children? Are some of you not still children? Did you not squeal in excitement when that brand new He-Man figure, Transformer, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle was released and you made your mom RUSH to the store to pick it out but you can't find it and you run up to the man in the blue apron at Toy's R Us and say "DO YOU HAVE THE NEW SUPER RARE GAMBITT/SLASH/DINO-RIDER/BARBIE/ETC.?!?!?!?!?!?" And that man looks at you and points directly behind you. There it is, you just missed it because you were excited.
Now imagine if that same man shoved you to the floor, said, "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" and kicked you in the crotch. Then he takes that precious new toy and gives it to another kid whose family he knows.
That is the .org in a nutshell these days. A dirty old fucking guy who steals toys, curses to kids, and laughs all the way back to his roach infested trailer.
In short, it's bullshit.
Keep in mind, I am GENERALIZING. Don't come on here responding to this post with a "But I don't do that..." comment. It's like that guy in a feminism class. There's always one guy in a feminism class. When they begin to talk about the women's movement and women's suffrage or ANYTHING that criticizes men in any particular way, the man always speaks up. He always says, "Well, I'm not like that, I've never raped or beat a woman - why do you feminists always hate men?" And the women in the class then get to comfort Mr. Guy. Feminists DON'T always hate men. It's a generalization for the sake of time. Would you prefer, "Men are more often than not sexist - except for Jim Browning in San Antonio, Texas; Carl Weatherman in St. Jude, Maine; Bobby Granger in Missoula, Montana..." It would go on forever.
I RARELY attack people by name. More often than not, it's rude.
This post broke something in me. It's been bulding up for awhile, but I never let a true, HUGE rant out until now. I have ranted before, but I'm just tired of the bullshit. It finally ebbed at AWA and now, I'm letting it out.
I believe the topic of this post is that little lump in the community that grows out into a cancer and eventually kills you.
You know what? We've become the cosplay community (credit to Mike Barranti, as well, for discussing that little pitfall). There are petty politics, groups that mock other groups, little turf wars, fights between individuals over inane bullshit. Some people still ask, where is Joe Croasdaile? Where is EK? Why did they leave the site? Perhaps partly due to a loss of passion, yes (and mayhaps one or the other may send me an email saying shut up, don't drag me into this, I'm out), but a good majority of it had to do with the fact that this community has become trite and petty.
It all started with codecs. If you don't use the codec I use, you aren't using the right codec. If it isn't MPEG-2 quality, you get a shit review. Fuck you! There are so many formats out there right now, who's to say what's right? Microsoft would love you to support something they developed, as would Apple. They want your money. AMD could give a fuck if some fat little kid is bashing the G5 saying the Opteron could whip it's ass in benchmarks. Apple truly does not care if some guy uses Macs and ONLY Macs. Intel REALLY doesn't give a fuck if you switch - they practically own the world. You gave them your money. That's all they needed.
Has anyone seen all of the tape based formats out there right now? BetaSP use to be the standard. Now we have miniDV, DVCAM, DVCPRO (which, I believe, is simply D1), D9, D7 (which could be DVCAM, but then, Sony changes the names of their products so often, does it really matter), D20, HD, HDTV, HDSTV, HDTYEV, HDYUVRGBSTFU; hell, some people in the mid-west still use U-Matic. VHS, DVD - in DVD there's dual sided, 5, 9, 18, 6894323; not to mention all the different ways to encode MPEG-2. Right now, we're all standing at a crossroads. Media IS changing. I've had clients shoot on miniDV and ask for a DVCPRO tape. These same clients have shot on BetaSP and brought it back to miniDV. God knows why... Everyone is confused. Every company is trying to come up with the next HUGE thing, the de-facto standard. Sony is scared that BetaSP is going to be replaced, so they created DVCAM to compete against DVCPRO, which Panasonic created hoping it would replace BetaSP. At the end of the road is HD in its various formats. So, which super high end expensive deck should someone go with? Can't get em all, most of them cost between $10,000 and $100,000. Then there's that other question - Analog, or SDI? Both use component... SDI seems to be the wave of the future, but the majority of my clients still want BetaSP, NOT DigiBeta... what IS a boy to do?
None of that had a goddamned thing to do with AMVs, as most AMV creators can't sfford any of that stuff. What I am trying to demonstrate, however, is the fact that there is no de-facto codec for either audio or video. We're still all making hack, illegal videos (don't get in on this argument, it's stupid, and it comes up every damned day, just trust me). There are so many different codecs out there right now, but no standard. Thus far, the only format I've found that reachest the widest audience possible is MPEG. It has been, and until someone develops a good codec for all the OSes out there, it will continue to be. Of course, the best part is that, no matter how you encode your MPEG - even if you got the TOP most WELL RESPECTED CREATOR on the site (whoever that may be, I honestly don't know) who has gotten consistent 10s on both audio and video compression to compress your video for you, you would probably still get shit "grades" because his name is not next to your video. And it truly doesn't matter if you mention that in the video information, as nobody reads that shit anyway, just as nobody will read this book.
I'm just tired of all this bullshit. It has completely killed that passion, the reason I got into AMVs in the first place - that thrill, if you will. I'm tired of a great many things in this forum. I'm tired of coming on and seeing somebody post a "Where can I find this video?" thread...
...You really think I'm going to side with the people who hate those people? NO. I'm REALLY fucking tired of seeing someone who has been on the site for a MONTH post back "stfu newb, search lol." You know, fuck you cocky dick. Most of the geeks on this site liked Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - did you learn nothing from it?! You were a "newbie" (a term I've come to loathe) at one point - didn't someone help your sorry ass? Maybe the person DID try to search. Maybe they accidently spelled a word wrong. Maybe they assumed the creator's name was two words, not compressed into one, because they haven't been on the internet long enough to LEARN HOW TO TYPE. Maybe they're retarded, autistic, mentally challenged, physically challenged, psychologically fucking challenged or dyslexic. But no, YOU can't USE the benefit of the doubt. You have to be a rude cock.
Christ, maybe the person was just too excited to get talking with AMV creators because the kid is 9 years old and saw his first DBZ or Pokemon music video and LOVED it because that's the show his parents let him watch on TV. Were you people not children? Are some of you not still children? Did you not squeal in excitement when that brand new He-Man figure, Transformer, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle was released and you made your mom RUSH to the store to pick it out but you can't find it and you run up to the man in the blue apron at Toy's R Us and say "DO YOU HAVE THE NEW SUPER RARE GAMBITT/SLASH/DINO-RIDER/BARBIE/ETC.?!?!?!?!?!?" And that man looks at you and points directly behind you. There it is, you just missed it because you were excited.
Now imagine if that same man shoved you to the floor, said, "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" and kicked you in the crotch. Then he takes that precious new toy and gives it to another kid whose family he knows.
That is the .org in a nutshell these days. A dirty old fucking guy who steals toys, curses to kids, and laughs all the way back to his roach infested trailer.
In short, it's bullshit.
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Nightowl
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 2:54 pm
Part 3
I'm not blaming anyone in particular. The fact that I'm attacking the .org in general is not an attack against Phade. In the beginning, I loved this site. I loved coming here and making friends. I loved sharing ideas and thoughts. There was the occasional asshole, but there really weren't many of them. People were respectful for a time.
There are only a few things I disagree with - first, the advent of the ratings systems. I find most of the ratings on the .org to be utter crap. If we were simply sharing videos, as a database, and weren't being constantly graded on our performance, whether we like it or not, perhaps there wouldn't be so much petty fighting or this concept of elitist editors (which, I admit, there are - I, myself, am VERY elitist and egotistical, and I'll admit it, I just try to be respectful about it). Maybe even if there were an option to not be reviewed at all - I hated that on AtomFilms, and I think it's dumb as hell on IMDB - database does not mean review center. Dictionary.com, quoting The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, shows database to mean "A collection of data arranged for ease and speed of search and retrieval. Also called data bank." When I first talked with Phade, this is exactly what the .org seemed to be represented as (of course, Phade, if you have some master plan for world domination via AMVs, please, let me know, I'll step out of your way so that you don't smite me on the way up - just don't forget the little people who helped you out with DV). These days, it seems like a constant dick-measuring contest. If someone is on top, give em all ones, don't be objective - you want that video down because you hate it! You know, a video can suck, but look video.
I suppose the problem is that they are opinions, not reviews. And people LOVE posting their opinions about your video on the internet.
This is why I will continue to hold that, at this moment, the con atmosphere is far better than the various .org subgroups. Though even cons seem to be slipping in that regard - but that's for another forum and, honestly, at the moment, I really don't care about that.
I am getting tired, as I've been writing for two hours and this post has got to be one of the longest posts with substance in the forums in awhile. I doubt that more than three people will read it in its entirety. This post doesn't even scratch the surface of how many complaints I and many others have had regarding the state of animemusicvideos.org. The community is becoming sterile, the art is vanishing, and this is my final plea.
After reading all that, some may ask, why then do I care? Why would I post such an insane, long message? ARE YOU ST00P1D?! STFU NEWB!!! Well, it's because I honestly do love AMVs. I love talking about them, discussing their future potential, watching new talents emerge, and attending cons in order to be amongst other like-minded people. The problem I have is that most of these people are now few-and-far-between. The ones who did think that way are losing passion, dropping like flies, no longer care. I want things to be better. I want things to clean up. Maybe if you help educate in ways other than hack codecs and what you determine are technological advances, things could get better. Maybe if you cut a video using the two-vcr method you could get back to that basic level and remember, once again, why it's fun to make AMVs. Maybe one day you could test yourself, go back to that shitty old A-Ko bootleg you have on VHS, copy it over to your computer, cut it without a single filter - just capture the thing straight into Premiere rather than using AVISynth or ripping a DVD - you could remember why you got into this in the first place, and what it's like to start out. The trials, the pitfalls. You could even rip a DVD, if all you have is a DVD player - but just use a regular video codec, don't inverse telecine, don't write scripts - forget about the look of the video and instead feel the rhythm. I'm not talking about matching beats, I'm talking about the movement of imagery. Editing is not unlike music, it has a rhythm all its own - find it.
Maybe you could even start studying the art of editing - not just by watching the top video on the site, but by taking a class, or reading a book from a past editor, whether it be film, TV or otherwise. Here's a suggestion - Robert Rodriguez, although not the best editor, is self taught and pretty decent. He started not unlike yourselves, cutting test footage, feeling what it's like to move from one motion to the next.
Watch the motion of characters - try to seemlessly combine a running shot from episode 3 of some show to episode 22 of some show (unless, of course, it has only 13 episodes...). Don't force it. Don't dissolve it. Simply cut. Get back to the simpliest of basics. I may use a shitload of sophisticated post effects with Jeff, but both of us have done cuts only videos. Hell, I continue to do them even now, they just don't happen to be AMVs. That's also how I was trained (straight cuts, finding the rhythm without the help of music), so if you call me a hypocrite, be my guest.
Read up on classic filmmakers. Study French New Wave. It isn't pretentious to have knowledge of past editing techniques - these are people that wanted to start something new, and they would do anything for their love of the craft.
Above all, don't be so quick to judge everyone and everything. I don't want the forums to dissolve into a politically correct mish mash of people apologizing, I want the discussions and arguments. But at least know what the fuck you're talking about.
There is so much more I could write, there is so much more I have to say, but honestly, I'm exhausted. I'm tired of it all. I have the smallest bit of caring left in me. If even a small amount of you have the slightest idea as to what I'm talking about, or even care, please, raise your voice. This community IS dying, no matter what happy little sentiments people say. The artistic matter has left an empty shallow hole. Have we truly made the transition to the 90's kid generation, that generation that accepts its music written by chart-topping baby boomer record execs and its movies without soul?
And please, for the love of GOD, do not simply post four or five paragraphs that simply agree with me. That seems to be an ongoing trend in posts as well these days. If you agree, then get off your ass and do something about it.
That's it. Exhaustion has taken over. I'm seeing the shadow people (anyone up more than 48 hours knows what I'm talking about). I have more to say, but don't have the energy to say it. Maybe I'll have killed this thread, who knows. I'm just tired of it all.
And if the flames should come to try and take me down, so be it.
-N
There are only a few things I disagree with - first, the advent of the ratings systems. I find most of the ratings on the .org to be utter crap. If we were simply sharing videos, as a database, and weren't being constantly graded on our performance, whether we like it or not, perhaps there wouldn't be so much petty fighting or this concept of elitist editors (which, I admit, there are - I, myself, am VERY elitist and egotistical, and I'll admit it, I just try to be respectful about it). Maybe even if there were an option to not be reviewed at all - I hated that on AtomFilms, and I think it's dumb as hell on IMDB - database does not mean review center. Dictionary.com, quoting The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, shows database to mean "A collection of data arranged for ease and speed of search and retrieval. Also called data bank." When I first talked with Phade, this is exactly what the .org seemed to be represented as (of course, Phade, if you have some master plan for world domination via AMVs, please, let me know, I'll step out of your way so that you don't smite me on the way up - just don't forget the little people who helped you out with DV). These days, it seems like a constant dick-measuring contest. If someone is on top, give em all ones, don't be objective - you want that video down because you hate it! You know, a video can suck, but look video.
I suppose the problem is that they are opinions, not reviews. And people LOVE posting their opinions about your video on the internet.
This is why I will continue to hold that, at this moment, the con atmosphere is far better than the various .org subgroups. Though even cons seem to be slipping in that regard - but that's for another forum and, honestly, at the moment, I really don't care about that.
I am getting tired, as I've been writing for two hours and this post has got to be one of the longest posts with substance in the forums in awhile. I doubt that more than three people will read it in its entirety. This post doesn't even scratch the surface of how many complaints I and many others have had regarding the state of animemusicvideos.org. The community is becoming sterile, the art is vanishing, and this is my final plea.
After reading all that, some may ask, why then do I care? Why would I post such an insane, long message? ARE YOU ST00P1D?! STFU NEWB!!! Well, it's because I honestly do love AMVs. I love talking about them, discussing their future potential, watching new talents emerge, and attending cons in order to be amongst other like-minded people. The problem I have is that most of these people are now few-and-far-between. The ones who did think that way are losing passion, dropping like flies, no longer care. I want things to be better. I want things to clean up. Maybe if you help educate in ways other than hack codecs and what you determine are technological advances, things could get better. Maybe if you cut a video using the two-vcr method you could get back to that basic level and remember, once again, why it's fun to make AMVs. Maybe one day you could test yourself, go back to that shitty old A-Ko bootleg you have on VHS, copy it over to your computer, cut it without a single filter - just capture the thing straight into Premiere rather than using AVISynth or ripping a DVD - you could remember why you got into this in the first place, and what it's like to start out. The trials, the pitfalls. You could even rip a DVD, if all you have is a DVD player - but just use a regular video codec, don't inverse telecine, don't write scripts - forget about the look of the video and instead feel the rhythm. I'm not talking about matching beats, I'm talking about the movement of imagery. Editing is not unlike music, it has a rhythm all its own - find it.
Maybe you could even start studying the art of editing - not just by watching the top video on the site, but by taking a class, or reading a book from a past editor, whether it be film, TV or otherwise. Here's a suggestion - Robert Rodriguez, although not the best editor, is self taught and pretty decent. He started not unlike yourselves, cutting test footage, feeling what it's like to move from one motion to the next.
Watch the motion of characters - try to seemlessly combine a running shot from episode 3 of some show to episode 22 of some show (unless, of course, it has only 13 episodes...). Don't force it. Don't dissolve it. Simply cut. Get back to the simpliest of basics. I may use a shitload of sophisticated post effects with Jeff, but both of us have done cuts only videos. Hell, I continue to do them even now, they just don't happen to be AMVs. That's also how I was trained (straight cuts, finding the rhythm without the help of music), so if you call me a hypocrite, be my guest.
Read up on classic filmmakers. Study French New Wave. It isn't pretentious to have knowledge of past editing techniques - these are people that wanted to start something new, and they would do anything for their love of the craft.
Above all, don't be so quick to judge everyone and everything. I don't want the forums to dissolve into a politically correct mish mash of people apologizing, I want the discussions and arguments. But at least know what the fuck you're talking about.
There is so much more I could write, there is so much more I have to say, but honestly, I'm exhausted. I'm tired of it all. I have the smallest bit of caring left in me. If even a small amount of you have the slightest idea as to what I'm talking about, or even care, please, raise your voice. This community IS dying, no matter what happy little sentiments people say. The artistic matter has left an empty shallow hole. Have we truly made the transition to the 90's kid generation, that generation that accepts its music written by chart-topping baby boomer record execs and its movies without soul?
And please, for the love of GOD, do not simply post four or five paragraphs that simply agree with me. That seems to be an ongoing trend in posts as well these days. If you agree, then get off your ass and do something about it.
That's it. Exhaustion has taken over. I'm seeing the shadow people (anyone up more than 48 hours knows what I'm talking about). I have more to say, but don't have the energy to say it. Maybe I'll have killed this thread, who knows. I'm just tired of it all.
And if the flames should come to try and take me down, so be it.
-N
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Warpwind
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:19 am
- Location: middle of the desert
- Contact:
I just thought you would like to know that I read all that so at least you made one person think about things...
Some points I would agree with you on and with some other points I have a different view.
I think what you speak off happens with any group the world over. Things change or prehaps your capacity to put up with shit lessens. Just yesterday I was listening to someone who is retireing talking about how sick he was of university politics. How no one cares about research anymore that they just care about making a name for themself. Prehaps that is the way society is turning...
Meh, I make no judgements.
Anyway what would you like people to do? Stop caring about ops and numbers? Stop flaming uninformed n00bs? You realise already that those that do these rude things aren't going to read your post. Prehaps you just want people to know how you feel... well I do for one and I'm sure there are others out there (I believe you already mentioned some yourself).
Personally this site is the only exposure I've really had to amv's. I live in a place that is unlikely to ever have an amv competition hosted in it's state captital. I was hoping to find here a place where I could share my ideas and my videos and get some feedback on them. But it seems like most people do their beta testing in their own clicky little groups anyway. How am I myself to gain acess to any of these? Try and make my own production group? A lot of good that has done people in other threads. Meet other amv editors at cons? Again the nearest con is in another state. Meet other amv editiors at my local anime club.... there is only one I know of and he is pretty busy. I do get some feedback on my videos through the opinion system so I'll just make do with them.
Still I do value this site if only for the guides that helped me out so much and for exposure to other videos be they good, average or bad. And I do value these forums for the help they have given me and for the occasional interesting thread that pops up.
Prehaps in my small way I can make this a more friendly community, prehaps not but still isn't it best to try? I was also slightly afraid to make a post lest I be judged in some way but then I thought "I don't know anyone here really so why should I care about what they think?" Maybe that's the problem. And then I clicked submit and it was all too late.
Some points I would agree with you on and with some other points I have a different view.
I think what you speak off happens with any group the world over. Things change or prehaps your capacity to put up with shit lessens. Just yesterday I was listening to someone who is retireing talking about how sick he was of university politics. How no one cares about research anymore that they just care about making a name for themself. Prehaps that is the way society is turning...
Meh, I make no judgements.
Anyway what would you like people to do? Stop caring about ops and numbers? Stop flaming uninformed n00bs? You realise already that those that do these rude things aren't going to read your post. Prehaps you just want people to know how you feel... well I do for one and I'm sure there are others out there (I believe you already mentioned some yourself).
Personally this site is the only exposure I've really had to amv's. I live in a place that is unlikely to ever have an amv competition hosted in it's state captital. I was hoping to find here a place where I could share my ideas and my videos and get some feedback on them. But it seems like most people do their beta testing in their own clicky little groups anyway. How am I myself to gain acess to any of these? Try and make my own production group? A lot of good that has done people in other threads. Meet other amv editors at cons? Again the nearest con is in another state. Meet other amv editiors at my local anime club.... there is only one I know of and he is pretty busy. I do get some feedback on my videos through the opinion system so I'll just make do with them.
Still I do value this site if only for the guides that helped me out so much and for exposure to other videos be they good, average or bad. And I do value these forums for the help they have given me and for the occasional interesting thread that pops up.
Prehaps in my small way I can make this a more friendly community, prehaps not but still isn't it best to try? I was also slightly afraid to make a post lest I be judged in some way but then I thought "I don't know anyone here really so why should I care about what they think?" Maybe that's the problem. And then I clicked submit and it was all too late.
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WilLoW :--)
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 7:07 am
- Location: Matsudo, Japan
- Contact:
I read all your posts too.
I'd have lots of things to say, but here I think that having you, the real person, in front of me, would be far easier.
You've been on this website for long. It has evolved a lot since it was created...like it or not, but the ones who made it evolve are its members...
When I came here (not a long time after you) there where already people who complained about the fact that the community was dying and stuff like that.. it was 2 years and a half ago, yet the website kept evolving.
My conclusion on this point is that the older members (in all communities) always complain because the prefered the way it was before. A community with 100 000 members can't be the friendly place that it was when you first came (I think there where something like 3000 members when you registered ? maybe less than that...).
If you're looking for a friendly website, go to you studio's website, where you can talk with something like 100 members max, and everything'll be fine.
You also speak of the high amount of useless posts there are now...it's always been like that I think (at least since I've been here), but when you were a newbie you didn't realize that.
As for the useless posts, I'm not sure that your post, even if it's long, bring anything to what other members who left the community have already said, so...
About video quality, (I know you made a generalization, but...), I've never seen any complaint like the ones you talk about (like :what, you used MPEG you lamer ? and stuff...). I've never seen that for my videos or the ones I've reviewed (quite a lot).
Plus all the technical things that we can see in the guides are not made to bother the creators, but to give best videos...that's all. Since the day I read these guides, my editing skills have improved, I make videos with a far better quality, Premiere never crashes anymore on my computer...etc...technical things can actually help, instead of being a burden.
the org is still a catalog, you do not have to take only the videos that are in the top 10% or in the star rating...
Maybe I didn't really understand the goal of your post, but I see nothing more than a "bye bye, I leave the org because it has changed since I came here" post, and this is not really original, others have done this, gave reasons (That they believed were the right ones), but in fact it's only that you're tired of it because it's not like in the good old days...
Yeah, things change. I think you have to live with it...
I also second what warpwind said, there are people (me included) who can't go to any convention and meet other creators...this site was the only link for me with other creators, and it helps many of us for amv creation.
I'd have lots of things to say, but here I think that having you, the real person, in front of me, would be far easier.
You've been on this website for long. It has evolved a lot since it was created...like it or not, but the ones who made it evolve are its members...
When I came here (not a long time after you) there where already people who complained about the fact that the community was dying and stuff like that.. it was 2 years and a half ago, yet the website kept evolving.
My conclusion on this point is that the older members (in all communities) always complain because the prefered the way it was before. A community with 100 000 members can't be the friendly place that it was when you first came (I think there where something like 3000 members when you registered ? maybe less than that...).
If you're looking for a friendly website, go to you studio's website, where you can talk with something like 100 members max, and everything'll be fine.
You also speak of the high amount of useless posts there are now...it's always been like that I think (at least since I've been here), but when you were a newbie you didn't realize that.
As for the useless posts, I'm not sure that your post, even if it's long, bring anything to what other members who left the community have already said, so...
About video quality, (I know you made a generalization, but...), I've never seen any complaint like the ones you talk about (like :what, you used MPEG you lamer ? and stuff...). I've never seen that for my videos or the ones I've reviewed (quite a lot).
Plus all the technical things that we can see in the guides are not made to bother the creators, but to give best videos...that's all. Since the day I read these guides, my editing skills have improved, I make videos with a far better quality, Premiere never crashes anymore on my computer...etc...technical things can actually help, instead of being a burden.
the org is still a catalog, you do not have to take only the videos that are in the top 10% or in the star rating...
Maybe I didn't really understand the goal of your post, but I see nothing more than a "bye bye, I leave the org because it has changed since I came here" post, and this is not really original, others have done this, gave reasons (That they believed were the right ones), but in fact it's only that you're tired of it because it's not like in the good old days...
Yeah, things change. I think you have to live with it...
I also second what warpwind said, there are people (me included) who can't go to any convention and meet other creators...this site was the only link for me with other creators, and it helps many of us for amv creation.
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SarahtheBoring
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 11:45 am
- Location: PA, USA
- Contact:
Out of curiosity, if you are truly elitist ("nobody matters but me and those whom I deem worthy"), why do you even give a damn how people treat newbies? They're scum to an elitist. The less of them, the better. Unless by "elitist" you mean something way different than I do. (I don't think people here actually realize what "elitist" means. They think it means that they acknowledge that some people are better than others. And that's just being honest.)
Anyway, you're right; AMVers have become the cosplay community. AND the fanfiction community. And...every other damn online community across the internet. People are going to be asshats, they're going to develop bad attitudes, they're going to develop lame superiority complexes over whatever's around (codecs, suppliers, their hardware, whatever), they're going to throw big drama fits, basically they're going to be a mixture of idiots and non-idiots. There will always be dick-measuring contests, there will always be drama-queening, there will always be stupid crap in some dose in any large group of people, everywhere.
Hello and welcome to the internet, and by extension Planet Earth. Enjoy your stay!
And you know, everywhere I've ever been, that's how it goes. People come in, they make friends, they have fun for a while, then there's a slow turnover, people move on to other communities or stop using them, everyone else in the group gets jaded, they leave (with or without fights about how "you all destroyed this community" and "it was better in the good old days"), and a new group starts frequenting the community. The org is about the third or fourth community that I've hung around for any serious length of time. It's not this board; it's like that EVERYWHERE.
And that's not to say that it's a lost cause, railing against it. Maybe some people will shape up. Maybe they won't. But there will be no revolution. There never is.
Anyway, you're right; AMVers have become the cosplay community. AND the fanfiction community. And...every other damn online community across the internet. People are going to be asshats, they're going to develop bad attitudes, they're going to develop lame superiority complexes over whatever's around (codecs, suppliers, their hardware, whatever), they're going to throw big drama fits, basically they're going to be a mixture of idiots and non-idiots. There will always be dick-measuring contests, there will always be drama-queening, there will always be stupid crap in some dose in any large group of people, everywhere.
Hello and welcome to the internet, and by extension Planet Earth. Enjoy your stay!
And you know, everywhere I've ever been, that's how it goes. People come in, they make friends, they have fun for a while, then there's a slow turnover, people move on to other communities or stop using them, everyone else in the group gets jaded, they leave (with or without fights about how "you all destroyed this community" and "it was better in the good old days"), and a new group starts frequenting the community. The org is about the third or fourth community that I've hung around for any serious length of time. It's not this board; it's like that EVERYWHERE.
And that's not to say that it's a lost cause, railing against it. Maybe some people will shape up. Maybe they won't. But there will be no revolution. There never is.
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Jebadia
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:54 pm
- Location: Parkersburg, WV
- Contact:
Indeed...
Frankly I don't see much difference in the org now than it was when I first started...other than free hosting and a newer forum, two of which I like or dislike to an extent but would rather have them around for the better than the latter.
Frankly this looks like another "Attitudes of AMV Creaters" thread...though I doubt you'll get banned and have a big controversy around it.
Often I see this complaints about member accounts that have joined and been around for months but haven't made any vids to contribute to the community. I wonder if anyone notices that these people are often the ones that are the more active members in this community...
Often I find myself getting a opinion from someone, and I got to check out there vids and they have none...which kinda bums me out cause I'm always looking for vids, whether I review any of them is another story...I still owe someone an opinion (I have forgot!). Thought the reviews may tend to be the all 10's OMG THIS SHITZ IZ L337 AWSOME IN MY PANTS kind of reviews, or the well thought out reviews or more personal reviews that you might recieve giving the effect the video played on the viewer, in all you can't expect someone to be effected by a vid the same way another person is affected. There's the fans of amv..then there's the fan base. There the people who in a more serious fashion, love amvs whether for artistic appearance or for any other reason to which they were drawn in this this strange little world of cuts and renders. Then there is the mass crowd of folks who enjoy the amvs whether for the music, or for the fact they are just surfing on a crowd of fangirls and boys who saw the vids at a party or a con at one time and found them 'cool', though they may never realise what there is to really like about amvs, whether by making one themselves or watching perhaps the older amvs where the hobby was fresh and growing.
Kinda like Elvis..you have the people who enjoyed his music....then you have the thousands of screaming insane crazy girls loosing their minds and fainting into a crowd to be trampled upon by high heels while getting other girls dresses cought in their throats and strangled to death ( I'm kind of course, I just needed to lighten up a little). You have the same effect in this community.
Often I don't mind the occasional assholes..even if there are a few more than before now. But often they can be your toughest critic, depending on what kind of asshole they are...
You have 2 maybe 3 kinds of assholes (to shorten the vast catagories into a more simplified example) You have the trolls....who really do nothing but come around, shameless often infact, just to tear down on the community because they think a group of people who like cartoons (fuck you I know it's..."Anime"), let alone a group who makes music videos to them are an easy target..and being the internet, attacking people in this manner is usually harmless other than the occassional ban, unless they unknowingly find and piss of someone who in turn hacks and fucks over their computer.
Then you have the brutally honest assholes, aka Dennis Leary assholes...who will perhaps state their half moronic, half sensible ideals and thoughts, whether their forcing them upon you or not, to the community. Often they can be taken likely, though you kinda think of them as a prick often..but a prick with power if they know what they're talking about, and don't preach it until it wears out and you'd wish they'd bugger of. To speak your words of wisdom occasionally to the masses is okay...but to spam them with words that ultimately get turned back upon you is a mess...
Last you'll have the maniacle sarcastic assholes, your lovely jolly ranchers of the org, who will either put you down or put you up (via meathook in your ass) but it's all fun and games if you don't take them seriously, which often they don't want you too....I mean....look at Monty Python and Mel Brooks movies....you shouldn't take them seriously, if you do the joke flies over your head. In my book these assholes are A-OK. 8)
I'd continue posting but I've kinda lost my place, so instead of babbling further I'll just end it with this thought.
Yeah the org can suck a fat donkey dick a lot of the times...but sitting by and watching it only to crash out upon it when you can't take it anymore will probably make it get a lot worse before it gets better. Keep in mind that the org ISN'T WORTH GETTING UPSET OVER, at least not for me...I have other things that I'm more conserned about in my life right now other than a cluster fuck of people with adobe premiere who are either clueless, on the sidelines, or are egomaniacs hanging from a tree with a rope around their dicks. (Not everyone is that bad though)
Frankly I don't see much difference in the org now than it was when I first started...other than free hosting and a newer forum, two of which I like or dislike to an extent but would rather have them around for the better than the latter.
Frankly this looks like another "Attitudes of AMV Creaters" thread...though I doubt you'll get banned and have a big controversy around it.
Often I see this complaints about member accounts that have joined and been around for months but haven't made any vids to contribute to the community. I wonder if anyone notices that these people are often the ones that are the more active members in this community...
Often I find myself getting a opinion from someone, and I got to check out there vids and they have none...which kinda bums me out cause I'm always looking for vids, whether I review any of them is another story...I still owe someone an opinion (I have forgot!). Thought the reviews may tend to be the all 10's OMG THIS SHITZ IZ L337 AWSOME IN MY PANTS kind of reviews, or the well thought out reviews or more personal reviews that you might recieve giving the effect the video played on the viewer, in all you can't expect someone to be effected by a vid the same way another person is affected. There's the fans of amv..then there's the fan base. There the people who in a more serious fashion, love amvs whether for artistic appearance or for any other reason to which they were drawn in this this strange little world of cuts and renders. Then there is the mass crowd of folks who enjoy the amvs whether for the music, or for the fact they are just surfing on a crowd of fangirls and boys who saw the vids at a party or a con at one time and found them 'cool', though they may never realise what there is to really like about amvs, whether by making one themselves or watching perhaps the older amvs where the hobby was fresh and growing.
Kinda like Elvis..you have the people who enjoyed his music....then you have the thousands of screaming insane crazy girls loosing their minds and fainting into a crowd to be trampled upon by high heels while getting other girls dresses cought in their throats and strangled to death ( I'm kind of course, I just needed to lighten up a little). You have the same effect in this community.
Often I don't mind the occasional assholes..even if there are a few more than before now. But often they can be your toughest critic, depending on what kind of asshole they are...
You have 2 maybe 3 kinds of assholes (to shorten the vast catagories into a more simplified example) You have the trolls....who really do nothing but come around, shameless often infact, just to tear down on the community because they think a group of people who like cartoons (fuck you I know it's..."Anime"), let alone a group who makes music videos to them are an easy target..and being the internet, attacking people in this manner is usually harmless other than the occassional ban, unless they unknowingly find and piss of someone who in turn hacks and fucks over their computer.
Then you have the brutally honest assholes, aka Dennis Leary assholes...who will perhaps state their half moronic, half sensible ideals and thoughts, whether their forcing them upon you or not, to the community. Often they can be taken likely, though you kinda think of them as a prick often..but a prick with power if they know what they're talking about, and don't preach it until it wears out and you'd wish they'd bugger of. To speak your words of wisdom occasionally to the masses is okay...but to spam them with words that ultimately get turned back upon you is a mess...
Last you'll have the maniacle sarcastic assholes, your lovely jolly ranchers of the org, who will either put you down or put you up (via meathook in your ass) but it's all fun and games if you don't take them seriously, which often they don't want you too....I mean....look at Monty Python and Mel Brooks movies....you shouldn't take them seriously, if you do the joke flies over your head. In my book these assholes are A-OK. 8)
I'd continue posting but I've kinda lost my place, so instead of babbling further I'll just end it with this thought.
Yeah the org can suck a fat donkey dick a lot of the times...but sitting by and watching it only to crash out upon it when you can't take it anymore will probably make it get a lot worse before it gets better. Keep in mind that the org ISN'T WORTH GETTING UPSET OVER, at least not for me...I have other things that I'm more conserned about in my life right now other than a cluster fuck of people with adobe premiere who are either clueless, on the sidelines, or are egomaniacs hanging from a tree with a rope around their dicks. (Not everyone is that bad though)
"If you believe in yourself, eat all your school, stay on milk, drink your teeth, don't do sleep, and get your eight hours of drugs, you can get WORK!"
Paperskunk:...PENIS!!!!!!!!! GIANT PENIS!!!!!!!!!! ERMAC WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!!!!!! GIANT JUICY PENIS!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!
Paperskunk:...PENIS!!!!!!!!! GIANT PENIS!!!!!!!!!! ERMAC WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!!!!!! GIANT JUICY PENIS!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!
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Jebadia
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:54 pm
- Location: Parkersburg, WV
- Contact:
kind = kidding..I'm kind of course, I just needed to lighten up a little). You have the same effect in this community.
forgive me for any bizarre typos you might read further on in my post. I should learned to read over my posts..
"If you believe in yourself, eat all your school, stay on milk, drink your teeth, don't do sleep, and get your eight hours of drugs, you can get WORK!"
Paperskunk:...PENIS!!!!!!!!! GIANT PENIS!!!!!!!!!! ERMAC WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!!!!!! GIANT JUICY PENIS!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!
Paperskunk:...PENIS!!!!!!!!! GIANT PENIS!!!!!!!!!! ERMAC WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!!!!!! GIANT JUICY PENIS!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!
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koronoru
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 10:03 am
- Location: Waterloo, Ontario
First, some comments on individual points:
[quote=NightOwl]I can't even speak for Linux users... guess I'll have to set Linux up on a system now as well. Make sure everyone is happy. Do they just use AVI as well?[/quote]
As a Linux user, I can handle almost any format. Windows formats annoy me because they force me to run Windows binaries in emulation, which goes against a number of the philosophical principles behind the Linux movement, as well as being arguably illegal in some cases. But in practice, Quicktime is actually more likely to be impossible to view.
[quote=NightOwl]Would you prefer, "Men are more often than not sexist - except for Jim Browning in San Antonio, Texas; Carl Weatherman in St. Jude, Maine; Bobby Granger in Missoula, Montana..."[/quote]
Yes, that would be much preferable to the current state of affairs. It would force people who want to express such opinions, to be honest about exactly how far they're willing to go, or else shut up. But that's way off-topic for this thread.
Now, on the meat of your posting:
It's not clear to me what you really think people ought to do. Quit whining on the forums, okay, fine, but I don't think that'll really happen ever. Web forums are always full of whiners. I get the impression that there are two kinds of members here: the ones who make videos, quietly, and the ones who participate a whole lot in the forums. Sure, names I recognize from the forums associate with profiles I can go to and download videos, so there are people posting both messages and videos, but you know what? Every time I see a famous video that everyone gets all excited about and that does really well in the voting (never mind that the voting is, as you point out, a total crock)... it's always made by someone I've never heard of. I'm not sure this is even a bad thing; we just have to recognize that different people have different ways of participating in the community, and as long as we can keep those who whine on the forums and those who make good videos from interfering with each others' activities too much, I don't see a problem with both kinds of people existing.
The other thing you seem to be advocating sounds like a Dogme 95 "vow of chastity" for AMV directors. It's a recipe for artsy pretension. If that's what you want, go for it.
[quote=NightOwl]I can't even speak for Linux users... guess I'll have to set Linux up on a system now as well. Make sure everyone is happy. Do they just use AVI as well?[/quote]
As a Linux user, I can handle almost any format. Windows formats annoy me because they force me to run Windows binaries in emulation, which goes against a number of the philosophical principles behind the Linux movement, as well as being arguably illegal in some cases. But in practice, Quicktime is actually more likely to be impossible to view.
[quote=NightOwl]Would you prefer, "Men are more often than not sexist - except for Jim Browning in San Antonio, Texas; Carl Weatherman in St. Jude, Maine; Bobby Granger in Missoula, Montana..."[/quote]
Yes, that would be much preferable to the current state of affairs. It would force people who want to express such opinions, to be honest about exactly how far they're willing to go, or else shut up. But that's way off-topic for this thread.
Now, on the meat of your posting:
It's not clear to me what you really think people ought to do. Quit whining on the forums, okay, fine, but I don't think that'll really happen ever. Web forums are always full of whiners. I get the impression that there are two kinds of members here: the ones who make videos, quietly, and the ones who participate a whole lot in the forums. Sure, names I recognize from the forums associate with profiles I can go to and download videos, so there are people posting both messages and videos, but you know what? Every time I see a famous video that everyone gets all excited about and that does really well in the voting (never mind that the voting is, as you point out, a total crock)... it's always made by someone I've never heard of. I'm not sure this is even a bad thing; we just have to recognize that different people have different ways of participating in the community, and as long as we can keep those who whine on the forums and those who make good videos from interfering with each others' activities too much, I don't see a problem with both kinds of people existing.
The other thing you seem to be advocating sounds like a Dogme 95 "vow of chastity" for AMV directors. It's a recipe for artsy pretension. If that's what you want, go for it.