Nightwish is terribly inconsistant.

[nailz]

Crosspost from the Blind Guardian Forum... for those who don't frequent there. Might get some more thoughts here.

Ok, I was thinking about it a little when I switched CDs from Angels Fall First to Wishmaster and back to Oceanborn ... Nightwish is Struggling to find some kind of consistancy in their music. I get this distinct feeling that this band, after 4 albums, still doesn't know the direction it wants to take with their music. I think Century Child illiustrates the point beyond any doubt.

You could go off and say that they're 'Evolving' or 'Progressing' like Blind Guardian, but I don't truely believe that. Nightwish has never been consistant with their music. They seem to have yet to form an Identitiy for themselves like Blind Guardian did. Going from Nightfall to ANATO may seem like a Huge Identity rift to some, but if you look beyond that, NiME was a natural progression from IFTOS and SFB etc.

My feeling is most bands round themselves out before moving on to something more extravagant, and do so only by defining their sound overall. Nightwish has yet to do that. Their albums are so veried and different that you can't really Judge the band on one album alone, maybe not even 2 albums. While the incredible Diversity allows the band obviously more fans than that of a consistantly sound band, it also severely limits the creativity I truely believe Tuomas is capable of, and the uncertianty of what the next album will sound keeps me uncomftorably offguard.

Thoughts?

[Flint the Dwarf]

Yes, they are inconsistent.

[StarRaiders]cV[]

yeah, i didnt read that, but i side w/ wuts his face

[rubyeye]

Angels Fall First was like their demo debut. It really wasn't until Oceanborn when they solidified the Nightwish sound. Remember, this is a band that started out as an acoustic project and from all the comparison and listening I've been doing - it's usually around the fourth or fifth album when a band finally hits their mark. But factors like producers and studios do sometimes impact a band's style (Megadeth comes to mind).

I don't think it sounds inconsistent at all and by your reasoning, you could say the same thing about Symphony X, Evergrey, or Fates Warning. Each release is almost a departure from the previous but still maintains that uniquely discernable {band} sound.

[Flint the Dwarf]

Well Rubyeye... Symphony X, Evergrey, and Fates Warning are all a little inconsistent. Symphony X does it on purpose, and it's not necessarily progression. They have been getting progressively heavier, but the next album isn't going to be heavier than The Odyssey. But it will be different. Nailz is not saying this as if it's a bad thing.

[rubyeye]

O Yeah, I know. But depending on how you look at it, it can be a good thing or a bad thing. Reviews after reviews either compliment or criticize when a band "sounds more of the same" from previous albums. And when comparing to other bands, it becomes even more critical.

But I understand what he's getting at. Nightwish has already been posting their studio journals and from what I've read it looks like this will be "more of the same", which depending on whether you liked Century Child or not, may be a good or bad thing.

[Chaos Angel]

While the incredible Diversity allows the band obviously more fans than that of a consistantly sound band, it also severely limits the creativity I truely believe Tuomas is capable of...

Sorry to track the thread somewhat off, but I am curious about what you meant by this. Speaking in a purely philisophical context, not in relation to Nightwish or any group in particular, but it seems to me that not restraining yourself to one specific sound and/or style would open up creativity, not hinder it. Wouldn't striving for a consistent sound limit what a group can write and perform, whereas if they do not worry about consistency, they are freer to let the creative process take over and write and play whatever may come?

Just a thought.

[Flint the Dwarf]

Chaos, I think he's saying that since their style changes so much, he can't refine his talents.

[nailz]

from all the comparison and listening I've been doing - it's usually around the fourth or fifth album when a band finally hits their mark.

They only HAVE 4 Albums. (I'm counting only the 4 studio albums: Angels, Oceanborn, Wishmaster, and Century Child) ... And none of these albums show any kind of natural progression in their musical sound. You've got Angels, which as you said, seems majorly experimental with their sound, Oceanborn, which is probably the most consistant (and thus, best) sounding album, which I think should have allowed the band to take a direction in their own sound. Then you jump to the slightly chaotic Wishmaster... which is a GREAT album, alas with nearly no flow to the songs past She is My Sin and Kinslayer, to the LARGELY Chaotic and just plain TERRIBLE Century Child. My point is, if they had progressed a little and attempted to refine their sound from Wishmaster TO Century Child, then I could see it, but it was just SO much different from everything else they had put out, it was just like What IS this? ... On top of that, the song pace is all over the map, with the INCREDIBLE 1-2-3 punch of Bless the Child, End of All Hope, and Dead to the World ... which if the album followed the same style, would have been amazing... but then they throw a curveball with Everdream, and then BACK to heavy with Slaying the Dreamer.

My point is that their Consistancy over albums seems to mirror the Song Arrangement on Century Child. (whoever arranged these songs should be shot in the head.)

by your reasoning, you could say the same thing about Symphony X, Evergrey, or Fates Warning. Each release is almost a departure from the previous but still maintains that uniquely discernable {band} sound.

First of all, I hate all of those bands if they're not playing Live, but thats exactly what I'm talking about. You have a pretty good idea what to expect from Evergrey, or SyX album after album. You've got some kind of a ballpark Idea of what you're getting into. You really DONT with Nightiwsh.

Wouldn't striving for a consistent sound limit what a group can write and perform, whereas if they do not worry about consistency, they are freer to let the creative process take over and write and play whatever may come?

No. It's like Tuomas is Playing Baseball for Angels Fall First, Hockey for Oceanborn, Rugby for Wishmaster, and Basket Weaving for Century Child. (I use basket weaving to show the amount of contrast the sound of this album has.) ... And it's not like he's really good at any of these sports to begin with. You don't get better at Baseball by playing Hockey.

[Chaos Angel]

To both Nailz and Flint:

Point.

I was forgetting the refinement and growth that comes with focus and specializing your abilities in a specific area, and striving to improve your abilities in a centered fashion rather than just in a generalized fustercluck (although I kind of like fusterclucks personally, it can be tricky to make them work).

But I also think that developing tunnel vision and formulaic habits, and not experimenting with new things once in awhile, can be dangerous to an artist. It leads to stagnation and lack of continued growth.