Tool, Prog or Metal?

Flint the Dwarf · Post by **Flint the Dwarf** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:57 pm

Part of what makes Tool so great is that you can't put them in a category with so many other bands.

But if I were to categorize them, Kthulhu came the closest.

They are not prog metal, just as Crimson is not prog metal. Sorry Otohiko. I'll give KC credit, they are about as prog as you can get but they aren't metal.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:32 pm

Well, whichever way, I have to submit to Flint's expertise here, since he is more an expert on actual metal than me. Maybe I just understand what metal is differently, maybe I just need to listen to more 'metallic' metal bands.

Plus, you gotta remember that a lot of general prog bands do a wide variety of stuff that stretches beyond what you'd call metal or even hard rock. So, strictly speaking, yea, while there are metallic signatures in both, KC and Tool are beyond any genre in particular.

Classifications make for good arguments, but, functionally - yeah. They're useless and are mostly shallow.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:31 pm

the whole reason i started this thread is becasue every time i walked into a CD store i kept on seeing Tool in the Metal section ... sitting next to many bands that it jsut didn't belong to ... thats all. To me it seemed out of place.

but how aobut this ... Define progressive. Technicaly thats impossible. progressive is always changing, if it wasn't then it wouldn't pe progressive. Since progressive pretty much means pushing forward.

Nestorath69 wrote:Why subject yourself to the stigma of labeling something?

meh ... see above

otohiko wrote: I guess that's because I'm one of the people who actually believes that rock is just a foil that you can stick anything to.

Indeed it is ... it's amazing the crap thats being called rock now-a-days.

Milatchi wrote:Who ever said "Nu Metal" is way off. If you have ever listened to TOOL then you realize they are not just another "Heavy Metal Clone Band" headed by guys with ears piereced to hell and a steel stud's shot through their tongue's screaming about how they were made fun of in high school and how they want to "cut their lives into pieces" because its "their last resort"

indeed tool =/= nu-metal ... to call tool nu-metal is almost a kind of insualt, or atleast the way i understand nu/cookie cutter metal it is. lol ... nice poppa hootch reference.

kthulhu wrote:Damn it, I'm taking a stand.

TOOL IS PROGRESSIVE HARD ROCK.

and i'll stand with you.

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Flint the Dwarf · Post by **Flint the Dwarf** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:40 am

Otohiko wrote:Well, whichever way, I have to submit to Flint's expertise here, since he is more an expert on actual metal than me. Maybe I just understand what metal is differently, maybe I just need to listen to more 'metallic' metal bands.

Plus, you gotta remember that a lot of general prog bands do a wide variety of stuff that stretches beyond what you'd call metal or even hard rock. So, strictly speaking, yea, while there are metallic signatures in both, KC and Tool are beyond any genre in particular.

Classifications make for good arguments, but, functionally - yeah. They're useless and are mostly shallow.

Wise man.

And I could agree that KC shouldn't really be put into any genre, but! you could argue that they are one of the only real progressive bands because of all their changes.

I, however, do not find music classifications useless and shallow. But hear me out. Going under the genre classification of prog metal, I've found so many bands that I now really like. And due to that, I've found so many guitarists I love. Even though at this point, I say that each band or guitarist is unique and that classifying them is futile, I found them mostly because of their classification.

And Propyro, don't think of it as progressive metal. It's Progressive Metal, not metal that is progressive.

It may seem like semantics, but it is more of a title than a description. There is more to it than that, but I don't know it all so I'm not going to pretend I can tell you.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:15 pm

flint_the_dwarf wrote: And Propyro, don't think of it as progressive metal. It's Progressive Metal, not metal that is progressive. It may seem like semantics, but it is more of a title than a description. There is more to it than that, but I don't know it all so I'm not going to pretend I can tell you.

ok, what your saying probably isn't that hard to understand, but i'm getting lost ... do you mean Mettalic Prog and not progressive metal? then i suppose that by that logic nu-metal is progressive metal, but not mettalic prog ... dose any of this make any sense?

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Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:08 pm

Well, yea, you're right there too Flint - I meant the classifications are useless in a pure musical or artistic sense, but for introduction, or 'if you like ___ you might like ____' purposes, they work more than well.

Speaking of that then... any other actual Prog Metal recommendations?

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:15 pm

Dream theater? i think somone mentioned them as falling under that catagory ... or whatever.

I'm not sure, but i think Green jelly may also be progressive metalish. I never heard much of them, and what i heard i don't remember very well ... come to think of it i'm not even sure green jelly is their exact name ... whatever, they're a band related to tool, Adam jones used to play guitar for them i think ...

ack i can't remember. Just give them a try.

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Flint the Dwarf · Post by **Flint the Dwarf** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:23 pm

Propyro wrote:
flint_the_dwarf wrote: And Propyro, don't think of it as progressive metal. It's Progressive Metal, not metal that is progressive. It may seem like semantics, but it is more of a title than a description. There is more to it than that, but I don't know it all so I'm not going to pretend I can tell you.
ok, what your saying probably isn't that hard to understand, but i'm getting lost ... do you mean Mettalic Prog and not progressive metal? then i suppose that by that logic nu-metal is progressive metal, but not mettalic prog ... dose any of this make any sense?

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In a sense, all metal is progressive as long as it changes in a forward direction but not necessarily Progressive. So, yes, some nu-metal is progressive.

Otohiko, do you mean Prog Metal as the genre that I've become interested in? If so, Dream Theater is very often the standard. Other bands...

Andromeda - very fast, blazing guitar/keyboard solos/duels
Ark - decent shredding, some power guitar, great soulful vocals from Jorn Lande
Ayreon - progressive space metal, appearances from various musicians
Beyond Twilight - another band of Jorn Lande's, similar to Ark
Conception - Khan's, the singer from Kamelot, previous band... power/prog metal
Dali's Dilemma - haven't heard enough, heard they were similar to Dream Theater
Fates Warning - more prog, nothing outstanding, Pleasant Shades of Grey is a great concept album
Gordian Knot - diverse shredding and intricate guitar work featuring several very talented guitarists
Hourglass - new prog metal band featuring some interesting guitar riffs and almost nu-metal vocals but sung with talent
Liquid Tension Experiment - you know about them
Magnitude 9 - similar to Symphony X but a little more proggish
Pain of Salvation - not quite as blazing prog metal, very talented vocalist is one of the best writers in the genre
Planet X - instrumental project of Derek Sherinian, basically mindless shredding
Section A - prog band fronted by one of the more rare non high-pitched vocalists
Star One - Arjen Anthony Lucassen, the brain behind Ayreon, orchestrates some more very nice space prog metal
Symphony X - personal favorite, but I'm not sure I can call them prog... they're closer to neo-classical prog power metal

Those are all my personal favorites anyway.

Have you heard of bands like Porcupine Tree, Transatlantic, or White Willow? I think you'd be interested in them. I'll copy and paste a description from one of each of their albums.

Procupine Tree - Metatonia -"First time on CD for this release of improvisations recording during the Signify sessions. This is 65 minutes of looooonng trippy instrumentals definitely treading very close to Set The Controls Floyd territory.

Transatlantic - Bridge Across Forever - Latest from the neo-supergroup featuring Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater), Neal Morse (Spock's Beard), Pete Trewavas (Marillion), and Roine Stolt (The Flower Kings). Naturally you'd expect epic prog and they deliver - the disc consists of 4 tracks, two of which clock in past 25 minutes.

White Willow - Ignis Fatuus - The group was originally formed as a folk ensemble incorporating progressive rock instruments like synthesizer and Mellotron into their sound. With increased exposure to the new Swedish bands Englagard, Landberk, and Anekdoten the band's sound became more symphonic, gradually developing into an unusual hybrid which seamlessly blends progressive, classical, and folk elements. White Willow's music is very dark - almost gothic. The blending of acoustic instruments with Mellotron creates an atmosphere akin to King Crimson's "In The Court Of The Crimson King". The songs on "Ignis Fatuus" vary in length from the brief 2 minute choral arrangement on "Song" to the Crimsonish 12 minute instrumental "Cryptomenysis", which is based on a story by H.P. Lovecraft. The band mixes short moody songs with long heavy progresive epics like the 11 minute "John Dee's Lament". At times the lyrics are rather melancholy focusing on age old topics like unrequited love and death. Other songs like "Now In These Fairy Lands" have fantasy themes. This 68 minute CD features a wonderfully open and transparent audiophile sound. Rounding out the package is an incredible cover painting from a rising star - graphic illustrator Thom Ang.

Yeah, I also kind of figured you've heard of Flower King's, Marillion, and Spock's Beard...

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:31 pm

Hehe, yep, heard of most of them, and listened to a couple... the others should follow eventually. Thanks then 8)

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:14 pm

/me cuts and pastes list to .txt file

... thanks flint.

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