Anamorphic encoding test

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:32 pm

technically, if they had any compliant mpeg 4 codec, divx 5, 3ivx, quicktime, dicas, whatever, they should be able to play it back. Sadly, xvid is a VFW codec for now, meaning it's in an AVI, meaning it needs an identifier called a fourcc to tell the player what decoder to use. Since you don't know what mpeg 4 codec someone may have on their computer (if any), you can only set the fourcc to what you think would be most widely supported, usually Divx 5.
This crap will be solved some day when the format finally matures in practical use.

ChristianHJW · Post by **ChristianHJW** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:55 am

post-it wrote:. . however, unless I missed something, Mpeg1 really should be the standard!

Wow .... i really learn every day. When reading such statements, i get the impression it will probably take us 20 years to become established as a standard, just 10 years after our proposed life time for current matroska specs ...

MPEG1 video looks like complete shit at any bitrate, MPEG1 layer 2 audio is only bearable at 224 kbps and above, so i dont touch a VCD even if you throw it at me, but it seems picture or audio quality is really less of an issue for you guys here .... fine with me, to each his own .....

@ ErMaC :

With next release we will introduce so called 'native' MPEG4 ISO matroska files. These files have native b-frames support, like MP4 will have, you can make them with every MPEG4 ISO compatible encoder ( DivX5, XviD, NeroDigital, 3ivX, etc., but for the start only XviD ) and you can play them with ANY MPEG4 capable decoder filter, the matroska parser filter will manage that automatically, searching for installed MPEG4 decoders and choosing the one that fits him best, but ensuring the stuff CAN be played. That way, you can encode a movie with XviD, with full future compatibility to the MP4 standard, and playback will work if at least DivX5 is installed.

MP3 has definitely seens the end of its days in the hi-quality video encoding scene today, Ogg Vorbis and especially AAC SBR ( HE-AAC ) are the new standards, sounding comparable to a 128 kbps CBR MP3 or 112 kbps VBR MP3 track at about 70 - 80 kbps. The HE AAC encoder in Nero6 can encode full digital 5.1 tracks in perfect quality at about 140 - 160 kbps already, and this is not the end. We hope that by the end of this week users will be able to use HE-AAC tracks in matroska in a future proof way, right now its working already, but files do break compatibility.

With AAC becoming the next widely used audio compression standard, as its part of the MP4 specs, again you will be able to convert your matroska files into fully spec compliant MP4 files in future, e.g. if you will buy a MP4 capable hardware device one day.

Call it 'pimping' what i do, i dont care anymore. I have been dealing with this stuff now for a very long time, i know it very well, and i guess people could learn from the project and also from my posts. Its out goal to allow people to use the latest technology in codec development, for best quality and small file sizes. We will work hard to make sure matroska can be used on many platforms and many machines without big hassle, a one time parser filter installation will be enough thanks to an upgrade feature we are planning for future versions of the parsers, and this will include a codec download server also ( no idea how we will finance that, dont ask me ).

Again, if the board admin doesnt like me posting here, a short PM is enough ......

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:08 am

In a sense, people have become a little stuck in their ways regarding video formats.

First problem was the numerous 'divx' and related releases and clones (prompting the rise of the dreaded codec pack) and then we later realised that the avi container that was utilising this revolution in video encoding sucked.

The time for a new container was around 3/4 years ago - but that cant be helped now.

As for containers and animemusicvideos.org the issue is mainly one of compliance and cross compatibility.... for that we just have to keep a keen eye on the developments and the support it when things look like they are going to have a good longevity.

I am keeping an eye on matroska but I'm not going to update the guides yet for something which is in a great deal of change. Next revision will have dev-api4/1.0 xvid guides and notes on helix producer but matroska will only see its way in when it offers a substantial gain.

AAC is the most tempting part of any change to the "way we do things around here", but again when you have to think about the people who are going to download this you dont want to be developing with things that are in a large change. You want something that someone will download and know straight aways how to play it, basically.

ChristianHJW · Post by **ChristianHJW** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:38 am

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:You want something that someone will download and know straight aways how to play it, basically.

... this will leave you with basically only one option, use WMV9 from M$, its the only format that is REALLY good ( not the best, but good ) and REALLY supported out of the box on every Windows PC...... and then Bill Gates will have achieved exactly what he is trying to do all the time, abusing his OS monopoly to create new bussiness for him.

WMV9 support is likely to come in next generations hardware devices, and every movie you will release in WMV, irrespective if its legal or not, will be an extra argument for the hardware manufactuters to do so ....

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:14 am

ChristianHJW wrote:... this will leave you with basically only one option, use WMV9 from M$, its the only format that is REALLY good ( not the best, but good ) and REALLY supported out of the box on every Windows PC......

Except that's not really true.

If I install windows 2000 I wouldn't *instantly* be able to play wmv9. Nor would I if I had just installed 9x (dunno about ME) - I'd need at least a windows update.

Thankfully we now have the codec without having to install a new (nastier) wmplayer but it's still a download away - not exactly out of the tin.

"Divx" has become such a popular codec that most people now think that their video viewing problems is a divx.com click away.

There's no ideal solution, of course. It's just that for us it's a case of waiting for developments to be more accepted across the net than pioneering the acceptance forward ourselves.

Thing is, the things that make matroska appealing arent really that important for us here - or at least not important enough for us to want to switch containers right now. Anamorphic encoding is rarely needed here as there are very few anime that are anamorphic (anime consisting mainly of tv shows). Better audio is desirable but when you are dealing with a 3 min song it's really not much of a problem doing an insane lame preset because the size difference isnt going to matter as much as when trying to squeeze things onto cds. Subs are also not required usually.

As for supporting things like RV9, sure that's nice but it's a luxury that isn't compensated by the difficulty my viewers will have in having to download the software to support this.

In short, matroska is something that is great for personal use but at the moment, until most the world is using it we probably wont be here because the advantages are not worth alienating a non technical/net-savvy viewer of our videos. As ErMaC said, installing divx 5 is already a step too much but at least most people know about divx and that they need it - especially if they are an anime fan.

Matroska is a great tool that is beyond our requirements, really. I appreciate you educating the world about developments because I'd like a well accepted, multi-system compatible, hardware supported container that I can use.... but the fact is that we make files here that we think most people can play. At the moment that's mpeg1 or a divx compatible avi encode, I'm afraid.

post-it · Post by **post-it** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:24 am

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:"Divx" has become such a popular codec that most people now think that their video viewing problems is a divx.com click away.

8) no kidding! . . I've got codec patches which are not even available outside the IRC World; Div5 Div6 ( the HQA/NOIR codec ) Qpeg-2 ( great for video's under 320 X 240 T_T ) plus numerous others all toting the name MPEG-4 standard!

ChristianHJW · Post by **ChristianHJW** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:33 am

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:[Matroska is a great tool that is beyond our requirements, really. I appreciate you educating the world about developments because I'd like a well accepted, multi-system compatible, hardware supported container that I can use.... but the fact is that we make files here that we think most people can play. At the moment that's mpeg1 or a divx compatible avi encode, I'm afraid.

Ok, i get the point. I guess i will return if we have our self-updating parser filter and codec download server up and running, because then i guess matroska could be a real advantage for you guys also, ok

?

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:36 am

DON'T LEAVE ME ALONE WITH THE CONSERVATIVES CHRISTIAN

;_;

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:26 pm

Tab. wrote:DON'T LEAVE ME ALONE WITH THE CONSERVATIVES CHRISTIAN

;_;

Ah shut yer face, taberis - it's not like you make amvs anyway so as if you care about easily distributable files

NME · Post by **NME** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:30 pm

AWE FUCKING SNAPE