RurouniKenshin/Samurai X

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Daio Kaji
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RurouniKenshin/Samurai X

Post by Daio Kaji » Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:35 am

okay, now i have a perdicament
i really wanna watch rurouni kenshin, but i wanna know if samurai x comes before kenshin or wat (yes i know that samurai x was the first release of kenshin, and they later changed the name)

but i just need to know how much samurai x there is before i can begin to watch rurouni kenshin, or was samurai x re-released as rurouni kenshin, in which case i would be able to avoid samurai x

so what do i need to do in order to begin watching this series from the beginning¿
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Warpwind
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Post by Warpwind » Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:03 am

There are two Kenshin OAV/Samurai X episodes that occur before the series. The english release is called Trust and the other is Betrayal. The animation style and direction (for want of a better word) are quite different from the Rurouni Kenshin TV series. Mainly cause they had a bigger budget than the TV series and I believe they wanted to present things in a darker light. These eps are more prequels than something that you must watch before the series. They just give you a bigger understanding of Kenshin's life as the Himura Battosai (manslayer).

Oh yeah and to the best of my knowledge the intial OAV are still marketed as Samurai X because a different company has distribution rights and doesn't want their product to relate to another company's product.

The Rurouni Kenshin series is much more upbeat than the intial OAVs. Some people will tell you to stop watching after the Kyoto/Shishio arc (dwchang I know you're out there) as it diverges from the manga after that. But personally I think there is still some worth in the remaining episodes.

Finally the anime is tied off in the Kenshin Seishonen OAV which is a 4 or 2 part movie in the same style of the first OAV and recaps the series slightly and presents some stuff from the manga that wasn't in the series. The ending in this is much more tragic than the ending in the manga.

While veiwing anime in order can make things easier I ended up seeing the Seishonen OAV's first then the Kenshin (Trust and Betrayal) OAV and then finally the Rurouni Kenshin series and I'm not worse off for it...
...or am I?

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Post by EarthCurrent » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:00 am

You should also be made aware that a lot of people are put off by the TV series' goofiness if they watch the dark and violent trust/betrayel OVAs first. Personally, I recommend watching the TV series first.

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Post by WarpedElements » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:35 pm

Don't forget the one titled "Samurai X: The movie". or was that one of the trust/betrayl flicks (I've watched neither of those, just checked out sam x movie at Bbuster)
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Post by Solitude101 » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:44 pm

You mean the Motion Picture?

It's good. It has some humour, but mostly good story.
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Post by dwchang » Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:05 pm

Your facts are correct, but your answer (i feel) is incorrect:
Warpwind wrote:There are two Kenshin OAV/Samurai X episodes that occur before the series. The english release is called Trust and the other is Betrayal. The animation style and direction (for want of a better word) are quite different from the Rurouni Kenshin TV series. Mainly cause they had a bigger budget than the TV series and I believe they wanted to present things in a darker light. These eps are more prequels than something that you must watch before the series. They just give you a bigger understanding of Kenshin's life as the Himura Battosai (manslayer).
DO NOT watch the OVA before the TV series. If you want to watch Rurouni Kenshin as accurately to the Manga (which obviously is the purest form and "most correct."), this is how you watch it:

TV series: Episodes 1- 12, 19 - 21, 23 - 24 and 28 - 62.
Kenshin OVA: Trust and Betrayal

That's it! You're probably wondering a number of things so i will answer what I speculate you wil ask:

1) Why skip episodes in the TV series?

As many of you know, anime that follows manga that has not finished has two choices when they "catch-up" to the manga (i.e. the next manga volume is not out):

A) Create filler episodes (which is what kenshin did). These have nothing to do with the plot and to be honest, episodes like 13 and 14 are GOD AWFUL. They add nothing to the overall story or even develop the characters. At the same time, *some* of them are alright, but it's not worth it ($$$-wise). It's also stupid to sort of delay the "Kyoto Arc" (Episodes 28+). If you're wondering why everyone loves Kenshin so much, it's because of the Kyoto Arc (28 - 62). Might as well get there quicker and with less DVDs to buy.

B) Extend episodes. This is what DBZ did and why the anime is hated so much. Stuff like having extended speeches and powering-up for episodes. The DBZ manga is pretty good and each of the fights short and concise.

2) Why should I watch the TV series before the OVA?

It is true that the OVA takes place *chronologically* before the TV series, however in the Manga, the OVA takes place at Volume 19 - 21 (The Tv series eps I mentioned go up through Volume Eighteen (putting 18 there makes a smiley face)). The reason this happened makes a lot of sense if you watch it the way I suggest. Basically, the entire TV series you will wonder:

A) Why does Kenshin have the cross-shaped scar?
B) What is Kenshin atoning for? He mentions this a number of times and it was done on purpose in the manga to allude to the future OVA flashback (Volumes 19 - 21).

Basically in not knowing his past...it's like an appetizer, it'll get you hungrier and hungrier for more and when you finally find out, it's that much more satisfying. After ~50 Episodes of wondering these things and all the allusions, you finally find out why and it's that much more satisfying. Trust me. I know people who have seen the OVA before and those after and the ones after enjoy the entire series as a whole A LOT more.

At the same time, the biggest thing to "prove" this is the right way is that the manga was done this way and the anime is following the manga. In fact, the OVA came out considerably later than the TV series.

Warpwind: Without spoiling anything, if you've seen the entire show, at Episode 62, Kenshin visits SOMETHING and does somewhat of a monologue. Ever wonder why that occurs? This is because this is the episode prior to his OVA flashback. This is why watching the OVAs after 62 makes the most sense. Also, if they already told you his past, why would they do it "again" around Episode 43 during his training? This is because they never told you his past and thus Episode 43 is the first time we find out anything.

3) Why should I stop at Episode 62?

I strongly suggest stopping at 62 if you'd like to have a positive opinion of the show in general. As I said above, when an anime catches-up with the manga, they create filler episodes. 63+ are all fillers. Basically the Manga was not out and Sony started making episodes up. In turn, the creator saw how horrible these were (FACT) and dissolved the relationship with Sony. This is why the "Revenge Arc" (volumes 19 - Twenty-Eight (again smiley face if I put 28 )) will never be animated.

I think that in itself tells you that these episodes are NOT part of the Kenshin storyline. The manga creator himself doesn't acknowledge them and in fact was pissed by the fact they created such horrible episodes. Alright, a *handful* are alright, but these are the "joke" episodes like Sano's dog, Kaoru's Ring and so on. NOT worth it $$$-wise (some 6 - 7 DVDs and 30 episodes). It will also make you think Kenshin is 1/3 crap.

IF you do watch these episodes, I at least ask you do not grade "kenshin" on it. They are not part of the true story and thus I don't count them as "kenshin." To me they're just the same characters in stories that someone who didn't create the show made up. It's kind of like fan-fiction to me.

4) Why should I not watch the Last OVA (entitled "Reflection" in the states)?

This very debateable since I have seen the last OVA, however my answer is simple. Just like the other things, the last OVA is NOT part of the "true" timeline. It goes over *some* of the things that happen in the revenge arc, but at the same time:

A) It covers MAYBE 2% of the story
B) The ending is attrocious. The real manga ending to Kenshin was quite a bit more upbeat and open-ended. It felt like a Kenshin ending (watch the show you'll know what I mean). The OVA ending is quite tragic and VERY untrue with the original. It goes off in an entirely different direction and I somewhat hate (sounds stupid) that a number of people think that's the ending.

At the same time, I'm sure you're wondering how one could find out the "true ending" to Kenshin. The answer is simple, but at the same time complex:

Read the manga! I know this would be difficult with no Japanese knowledge, but at the same time, if you look hard enough, you can find manga scans that are already translated in English. I was lucky enough in that I know some Japanese (read it the first time) AND have the manga scans (recently).

At the same time, I don't think you *have* to know the ending (which seems odd right?). I know PLENTY of people who end the Kenshin with Episode 62. In fact, Episode 62 ends quite happily and open-ended and the viewer could easiliy be satisfied with that as the ending (you'll know when you see it). Afterwards, you could see the OVA, find out what happened in the past and ultimately know that Kenshin ended on Episode 62 with said ending.

Then again, you could easily watch the 2nd OVA too, but just know it's not the "truth".

So yeah, that's my (lengthy) answer to the Kenshin question. I think the creator's wishes coincide with what I am suggesting and (to me) that's what matters. Ultimately though, it's up to you. I might also add that this does save you some money since you don't have to buy DVD4 :-P.

I hope this is clear. I know how much of a Kenshin retard I sound like...because I am :-P. Just wait till you see me write about Escaflowne (my favorite show).
-Daniel
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Post by Warpwind » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:12 pm

dwchang wrote: Warpwind: Without spoiling anything, if you've seen the entire show, at Episode 62, Kenshin visits SOMETHING and does somewhat of a monologue. Ever wonder why that occurs? This is because this is the episode prior to his OVA flashback. This is why watching the OVAs after 62 makes the most sense. Also, if they already told you his past, why would they do it "again" around Episode 43 during his training? This is because they never told you his past and thus Episode 43 is the first time we find out anything.
mmm I did understand why Kenshin visited that ***** in fact after episode 62 I thought the Rurouni Kenshin series would do their own recap of the trust and betrayal OVA and they didn't, much to my annoyance.

I'm not disagreeing with you but in my previous statement I was trying to say that it was not necessary to watch the trust and betrayal OVA's before the series because they are prequels (which in my head means something that was written after or during an exisiting series in order to explain the past in more detail)

But I do understand what you are getting at when you say you should watch the Rurouni Kenshin series first.

I'm trying to chase down the manga myself (not scantalations or the original jap) but I believe I'll have to import it *sigh*.

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Post by dwchang » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:19 pm

Warpwind wrote:mmm I did understand why Kenshin visited that ***** in fact after episode 62 I thought the Rurouni Kenshin series would do their own recap of the trust and betrayal OVA and they didn't, much to my annoyance.
Well again, Episode 62 is pretty much where it ends with the TV series and Manga being related.
Warpwind wrote:I'm not disagreeing with you but in my previous statement I was trying to say that it was not necessary to watch the trust and betrayal OVA's before the series because they are prequels (which in my head means something that was written after or during an exisiting series in order to explain the past in more detail)
Gotcha.
Warpwind wrote:I'm trying to chase down the manga myself (not scantalations or the original jap) but I believe I'll have to import it *sigh*.
You can try a number of places:

1) eBay (seriously...u can get some for like 5 bucks)
2) Just search for a US site that imports
3) easierst...find an Asian Bookstore. If you're in (or near) a big city like Chicago (Mitsuwa), NYC and LA, this should be pretty easy. This is how I got all my volumes.
-Daniel
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Post by Warpwind » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:25 pm

dwchang I live in Australia... Perth, Western Australia to be exact
I've never even seen manga over here.. and that's including specialist comic/anime stores.

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Post by dwchang » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:29 pm

Warpwind wrote:dwchang I live in Australia... Perth, Western Australia to be exact
I've never even seen manga over here.. and that's including specialist comic/anime stores.
D'oh!
-Daniel
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