Battle Royal: Mac Vs. PC

[dwchang]

Macs = Better editing software and faster (with the G5).

PCs = Better encoding software and cheaper.

So long,
Larg0

ps. I choose Macs. I love mine.

Too many misconceptions in this thread.

First off, I am a computer engineer at AMD and am fairly qualifed to answer a question about computer architecture. Apple hardware is *not* faster than x86 technology. Even the G5.

In fact, the first few benchmarks that touted it as the fastest desktop PC were all fabricated. The benchmarks weren't fair and Apple even disabled things on the x86 side (like Hyper-threading and multi-processing) as well as enabled performance things on Apple's side and not on the x86 side like special libraries. This was all revealed a few days later and Apple was pretty much caught redhanded.

The article can be found here. In fact, it's written by an Apple user.

If anyone has questions about the benchmarks and results, feel free to ask. The basic summary is above.

In fact, once "more fair" (no such thing as a perfect benchmark), the G5 was apparently 50% slower than the soon to be released Athlon 64 and even slower than the older P4/Athlon series. Given, at the same time, I will admit that Apple has definitely closed the gap in performance (they were QUITE a bit behind the x86 series), but regardless...they are still slower than current technology (once Intel releases Prescott and AMD releases Athlon 64, it's back to Apple getting owned again).

As for the actual question with editing, Apple definitely has Final Cut Pro which is significantly more power (and more importantly) and stable than Adobe Premiere. At the same time, the misconception is that they have the most powerful editing software. This is quite untrue. Everyone (even me in the past) forgets about Avid. That owns both Premiere and Final Cut Pro.

So in conclusion, Apple is *definitely* not faster in both "speed" (Mhz) and "efficiency." They may have some good software, but I don't think it warrants buying a ~$3,000 machine. Also, as Omni has alluded, what else can you do with your MAC? I'd rather stay with my x86/Windows based machine, have more codecs/software/games as well as a decent video-editing program. *IF* I had a ton of money I might consider getting a Powerbook since they are sleek and I do wanna try FCP, but I don't think it's worth it when given a choice of one or the other.

One *BIG* disclaimer that I wanna add is something Nightowl said in the Powerbook thread. Regardless of all these performance questions and software things...the key thing to think about is which system you are most comfortable with. Even if there's a ton of software and power, if you can't efficiently use the system, you're not really using all that power. Therefore, in the end, it's all about what you're comfortable with.

[dwchang]

Oh and yes, I do realize how biased my opinion can be, but you can't argue with things like that article and other results people are getting. I am *trying* to give an unbiased opinion based on facts to help with the original question. I again point you to the disclaimer at the end of the post. That's what counts.

[OmniStrata]

I find your lack of stupidity intriguing...

Well done Daniel! 8)

[gives dw 1337 shades...]

[dwchang]

I find your lack of stupidity intriguing...

Well done Daniel! 8)

[gives dw 1337 shades...]

That's why AMD pays me the big bucks 8) j/k

[Farlo]

im perfectly happy with my pc...but its just a personal preference

[Castor Troy]

"It's the person who makes the videos, not the computer" -Aluminum Studios

I'd still be making videos on my P1 133 if I still had it.

[Unit 423]

Wow - in all the other threads on PC vs. Mac that I've read, I have never heard such a well thought out response before. Bravo, dwchang.

By the way, here's a webcomic that addresses the Mac switch commercials. This is not posted for commentary, but rather for the sake of humor and how personal this issue becomes for some people.

[dwchang]

Wow - in all the other threads on PC vs. Mac that I've read, I have never heard such a well thought out response before. Bravo, dwchang.

Thanks!

I do have a degree in Computer/Electrical Engineering from the #2 Unviersity in this, so I better know what I'm talking about . Sorry if that sounds like bragging.

Either way, thanks! I pride myself on *trying* to be helpful and present good, fact-supported arguments.

[alternatefutures]

Actually, as far as I know, "more fair benchmarks" have not been done as the G5 ain't actually out yet. The results were gleened from comparing Apple's numbers to numbers Dell, Intel, HP and others reported to SPEC. I think Apple's problem was they were looking for an unoptimized playing field (at least at first glance) and used the common misconception that using the same compiler on different architechtures eliminates a variable, and so I suspect not only did they screw over the Intel chip, but also their own (to what degree, I'm not sure). All reports of the G5's speed, fast or slow, should be taken with a grain of salt. The fact is, we really don't know at this point, we only have what Apple's released, which ain't much. Again, wait for people to get their hands on the thing before coming to a conclusion.

WhereNext: Back when the G4 was the high-end of Macs, you could buy a Dell with Avid Xpress Pro for the same price as a Mac with FCP, gaining more performance and a better NLE. Vegas 4.0 is no slouch either, and it looks as though Premiere Pro is a good start for Adobe catching up to FCP with vastly improved audio, color correction, and motion tools (provided it's stable, considering it's supposidly rebuilt from the ground up, I would hope so). In fact, going with a Mac now is risky, as you only have two players in the NLE arena there; Apple and Avid (Adobe didn't want to go through the expense of porting Premiere Pro), and Avid's attitude is along the lines of "Sure, you can run our stuff on a Mac, but why would you want to when you can put them on a PC?" So it's highly likely that FCP and FCP Express may be your only options on the platform in the near future, in which case, Apple's got you by the balls. Anyway, in the software arena it's looking like the differences between NLEs are far smaller than they were only a year ago, so it's simply a matter of which one you feel more comfortable with, as they all perform roughly the same.

[dwchang]

Actually, as far as I know, "more fair benchmarks" have not been done as the G5 ain't actually out yet. The results were gleened from comparing Apple's numbers to numbers Dell, Intel, HP and others reported to SPEC. I think Apple's problem was they were looking for an unoptimized playing field (at least at first glance) and used the common misconception that using the same compiler on different architechtures eliminates a variable, and so I suspect not only did they screw over the Intel chip, but also their own (to what degree, I'm not sure). All reports of the G5's speed, fast or slow, should be taken with a grain of salt. The fact is, we really don't know at this point, we only have what Apple's released, which ain't much. Again, wait for people to get their hands on the thing before coming to a conclusion.

I've already read a number of thorough reviews on sites like Ars Technica (fairly technical) and links have been floating around the Inquirer and Slashdot for like 2 weeks. Others have bench-marked it which is why Apple was caught red-handed. As for the compiler, that's not all that was changed. As I stated in my reply (which came from the article I posted), Apple disabled things on the x86 sided and enabled things on their end with extra libraries and so on. This is quite a bit more than just a compiler. In fact, they even show the results when these things are turned off and both the current P4 and Athlon smoke it.

Let's not even get into later in Q3 when the Athlon 64 and Intel Prescott will be released. These are both major steps up for our respective companies and the G5 has to compete with it till the next architecture revision (which is quite a few years off). From what I've heard Prescott and Athlon 64 wlll be fairly close to each other (hopefully AMD will pull ahead ...not in Mhz, but performance), but the G5 will once again lag behind.

I will say this though, I think the G5 is a major step for Apple and did close the gap. Dumping Motorolla and going with IBM's processor was a wise decision.

As I said earlier though, it all comes down to what you're comfortable with. If you can't use FCP, it's kind of pointless to buy an insanely fast computer and efficient software when you can't efficiently use it. This was brought up by NightOwl and is the bottom-line. We can argue about speed and performance till the cows come home..and believe me I'm sure Apple and PC people would.