i love rap

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:05 pm

Well, let's just saying it sucks cause it sucks isn't exactly reasonable. Similarly, denying the fact that people can like music that you do not is useless.

Really, I've learned my lesson a little while ago - you can offer good alternatives, you can suggest artists and songs, but you can't forcefully change a person't conception of music. Simply saying that something sucks certainly asserts your opinion well, but it's at best selfish. At worst, it's actually disrespectful and may even hurt another person's feelings.

As I said, I'm perfectly fine with people liking rap or whatever else they like as long as they do so for the right reasons.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:10 pm

Just to make my views a bit more clear on the issue of rap itself...

Personally, when it comes to Rap - I really do find much of the genre backward, poorly produced (in musical, not so much technical terms), musically unimaginative and even reactionary. That is my personal & honest take on it.

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However, before the critics and skeptics start claiming any victories...

Firstly, as it goes in music - nothing is uniform. I'm quite certain that there are exceptions to the rule, and there are rap artists with fresh approaches, genuine ideas, and primary interests that rotate around art rather than commercial success.

Secondly, allow me to also point out that I find much of the oh-so-proud punk and metal scenes similarly backward, poorly produced, musically unimaginative and even reactionary. The fact that they play 'real' instruments, have more 'underground/hardcore' elements or are more technically apt doesn't make them look, in my eyes, any more interesting. This isn't meant to dis any of the above-mentioned genres - merely to state the opinion that I have, based on my musical tastes. And if you enjoy such sorts of music - godspeed to you, and my best wishes.

***

The moral of the story is - if you don't like the music, go ahead and don't. But just say that it's your opinion/view/taste/bias and don't go out ranting how it universally sucks sucks fucking sucks. Because other than upset people who do like it and make you feel oh-so-fucking-superior (inflated ego), your aggressive statements aren't gonna change anything, really.

mexicanjunior · Post by **mexicanjunior** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:20 pm

Old school rap rocks...

Public Enemy
Run DMC
Boogie Down Productions
old LL Cool J
Fat Boys
Stetsasonic
Salt N Pepa

Good times...

Jace Tsunami · Post by **Jace Tsunami** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:12 pm

Nonagon wrote:Ugh, learn how to fucking argue without imposing your own goddamn opinion. You're all fucking morons ( except the one exception which actually posted intelligent thought ), esspecially you Jace. Die in a tidal wave already.

You're more than allowed to invoke your own opinion, it's normaly the point of ana rgument. Besides, just about the only opinion I included is that rap fucking sucks, plain and simple, very vague. However, I did have TONS of fact. It's not my fault all your favorite "rap super stars" sold themselves out to shitty clothing companies that run sweat shops in run down asian countries.

Yu're just a poor loser. Fact is rap stars are fucking gay, and they have no talent than anyone else. I could find so many kids to replace all of today's famous rap stars. They have just as much skill, and can cover any song made by these people. Then you ask, "Well can they write songs just as bad ass?" I'm sure if they got famous Nike would be willing to pay them just as much

Rappers have absolutley no credibility. They just fucking suck. Deal with it. If you like rap, fine. Just learn to deal with the fact it is nothing special, in the slightest.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:43 pm

I'm not a rap fan or very knowledgable about rap, so take what I'm saying as you will:

Rap really fucked itself when it became a lifestyle, instead of being about a lifestyle. The early rap was about life in the city, for instance (i.e. "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang), and having a good time. It later moved into music with a social message (such as "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash - great song, BTW).

In the late 80s and early 90s though, gangsta rap rose up, and that's where rap seriously started its downfall, in my opinion. A lot of it, while violent, had the same social aspects to it as before. It soon devolved into a celebration of the thug lifestyle, however, and encouraged emulation of the rappers. Clothing companies saw an opportunity, and began marketing in league with these rappers.

Then the gangsta rap backlash occured, and gangsta rap mostly faded out . Since, in the mainstream sense, that was all that was really out, it knocked rap back to the "Rapper's Delight" era of content, essentially. Rappers, not wanting to have to face Congress again for their content, went for the safe medium of rapping about living a high lifestyle (minus the crime, of course). Rather than being a celebration of good times or even living dangerously, it's become an asinine mainstream genre of high times and bling, with the occasional friendly style rivalry. And, of course, as Jace mentioned, the corporations are supporting this, by associating their products with this "cool" high lifestyle. You can't be taken seriously unless you wear the clothes, have the shoes, and drive the car.

At least, that's how it looks to me.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:59 pm

I think it's true what Kthulhu says about Rap being about a certain lifestyle and being pro-corporate at times.

Still, ever think that it's exactly what many rap fans want to hear? I think so. That's how it's supposed to work...

ithaqua · Post by **ithaqua** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:16 pm

Isn't that true of any musical genre, though?

Remember Corporate Rock? (Jefferson Starship, Boston, STYX, etc.)
When early electro-rock was turned into soulless new wave? (The entire Breakfast Club soundtrack)
How about good old metal being turned into repetitive nu metal?

Like always, there will be some good mainstream acts, and some bad ones. You can't judge a movement by the bad ones, cause hey, even some classical music is bad.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:28 pm

I simply draw a line between what's called "popular music" and "mass music". The difference is not in the popularity, but in the way it appeals audiences. In the musical mainstream, the vast majority belong to the second category.

Jace Tsunami · Post by **Jace Tsunami** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:59 pm

Otohiko wrote:I think it's true what Kthulhu says about Rap being about a certain lifestyle and being pro-corporate at times.

Still, ever think that it's exactly what many rap fans want to hear? I think so. That's how it's supposed to work...

Just because it's what people want doesn't make it anymore credable. Anyone can do it, it doesn't take a lot of skill or any talent to be a rapper. Fans of the rap genre have to udnerstand this, they can't get all defense and whiny when others tell them it sucks. Most music fans find value knowing that skill and effort went into making what they love, and that it's unique.

The Ataris for example are one of my favorite bands. I know them personally. I know that each one of them Kris, John, Mike, and chris are allv ery skilled with their instruments. I know they put a lot of effort to make sure they compose something great that they'll be able to perform for their fans. i also know the lyrics Kris writes are special and unique to the band in some way. Nike didn't pay him to sing about anything. I can really say wow when I get something new of theirs, it's the fact I know what goes into their music that's just one more thing that makes it special.

I know this is only a small element of music, and sound tends to be more importent than how it came to be. If you can overlook this, and don't mind that your music is coming off of a corporate converyor belt, then it's fine for YOU. However to me, rap doesn't even sound that good. There are very few songs that I enjoy listening to, so If I'm going to listen to all the average rap songs that build the genre, I'm going to neeed something more to fuel my like for the music. When i go looking for that tho and I find that the artist has no credibility at all, it's a complete turn off. They don't write the music, they barley have a hand in the lyrics, after all the music is written and composed, you can have any high school kid "rap" it just as well.

Oh well, I'm done rambling. But what it comes down to is rap is only a some what decent sound, I rarly hear rap songs that wow me. So if it wants to motivate me further to ejoy the genre, it's going to have to impress me with somehting other than the way it sounds (which it has failed at). And the fact that there's no skill or talent or originality/uniquiness in the music leaves me a little more than feeling there's nothing there. There just isn't really anything to enjoy with rap.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:14 am

I know this is only a small element of music, and sound tends to be more importent than how it came to be. If you can overlook this, and don't mind that your music is coming off of a corporate converyor belt, then it's fine for YOU. However to me, rap doesn't even sound that good.

Well... that's exactly what I've been talking about, no?

It doesn't sound any better to me than it does to you.

However, can you get out of the Chicken Little outfit for a sec and imagine that, perhaps, there are people out there who like the sound. That's the people I'm talking about. If they like it for the sound, and overlook the rest, I have no problem with them.

Argh... seems like I'm repeating myself