Experimentation vs. Satire (Dinosaurs vs. Turtles)

[WilLoW :--)]

Which brings me to my point: why can't we support both positions? If we can applaud but not necessary like originality in the first video, why can't we applaud but not necessary like satire in the second video?

Agreed. I haven't seen Kamoc's vid yet, but I was impressed by Wired Hypnosis' originality (which doesn't mean I'll keep it on my hard drive , and if now I can have a good laugh watching Kamoc's one, I'll be happy.

I say both videos should be put in a zip archive to be downloaded at the same time

And I'd ask people to stick to the point and not starting criticizing people who are not even involved in this thread (how old are you guys to do such childish things, and didn't you read the forum's rules ?)

[StealthVisions]

Honestly, you friggin people need to get lives. I thought there was some sort of deep meaning to each of these videos and the arguments following said videos. That was the point I realzed what everyone was arguing over: The interpretation of a digital medium in a niche community, of a niche genere, of a niche subculture, in a species that is actually one of the least numerous on the planet, On a planet that sits in the 3rd position from the sun, which in turn sits in the an arm of a galaxy, which is slowly spinning around a universal axis.

Thanks for the totally unnecessary geography lesson.</sarcasm>

You are small in the grand scheme of things. Grow the hell up and quit taking yourselves so seriously. All of you. That includes you Dinosaurs, AD, Kusoyaro, and Kamoc.

We're all small in regard to the 'grand scheme', so there's no need to point out specific names. And if people feel there's reason to debate something, they have every right to. They also have every right to ignore the words of a 'small' person like you. It's human nature to debate, argue, fight...it's not like you're providing a wake up call.

I've said my peice. What you make of it is entirely up to you.

I believe you mean well, but you should see the irony here. I'm not saying there's no point in trying, I'm just hoping you aren't optimistically thinking that anyone is going to listen to you.

[kmv]

I put my question into a new thread and structured it the way I did precisely because I wanted to try and avoid superfluous finger pointing and recriminations, and I hope that certain commentators from other threads aren't put off from commenting in this one.

To get back on topic...

Just in case anyone missed it, my question is larger than the simple: "Why can't we all just get along and hug more often?" It's an attempt at identifying the creative boundaries, if any, that this (admittedly small) community has chosen to adopt.

I acknowledge that I am quite new to this scene (I haven't even been brave enough to upload any of my own videos yet), but since I have been here I have seen a lot "word service" given to the freedom of expression and the creative process. Is that true or is it just so much bunk?

For what its worth, the identification of any boundaries or de-facto codes of practice is unlikely to stop me making videos - I am just interested in exploring this issue.

[moooooo]

I put my question into a new thread and structured it the way I did precisely because I wanted to try and avoid superfluous finger pointing and recriminations, and I hope that certain commentators from other threads aren't put off from commenting in this one.

To get back on topic...

Just in case anyone missed it, my question is larger than the simple: "Why can't we all just get along and hug more often?" It's an attempt at identifying the creative boundaries, if any, that this (admittedly small) community has chosen to adopt.

I acknowledge that I am quite new to this scene (I haven't even been brave enough to upload any of my own videos yet), but since I have been here I have seen a lot "word service" given to the freedom of expression and the creative process. Is that true or is it just so much bunk?

For what its worth, the identification of any boundaries or de-facto codes of practice is unlikely to stop me making videos - I am just interested in exploring this issue.

To be honest, I agree with you in context to the word service given to freedom of expression and the creative process being a load of BS, which is upsetting. I've heard people talk about videos getting boring around here, they are all starting to look and sound the same etc, but no one is willing to go out there and try something different. For the most part, the only difference lately in videos has been that some people just jazz theirs up with a butt load of after effects.

This is where the dinosaurs come in. They certainly are trying to take videos into another direction, which is a good thing. Sure they are unconventional, and horribly pretentious, but I'm glad they are doing something that is so new to the scene. It's really been the only thing that has gotten me interested in videos again. I can't possibly be the only one that is sick of seeing everything perfectly synched, or just a re-hashing of an anime's plot to some moody pop rock song. I know one of the dinosaurs (Can't remember which one) was talking about this on his journal a few weeks back.

Now it seems like for trying something new, the Dinosaurs aren't exactly being recieved very well. It's understandable, and yeah, I didn't get the Lain video either...but I applaud Leontes for at least trying to go into a different direction. Like I said before, I think most people here, not all, but most, would rather see a slickly timed and perfectly synched video, then this more experimental style that the Dino's are using, but I guess you can't please everybody. Which makes sense in a way. At Animazement, I heard people were getting terribly pissed off when Kid Eva was shown, because they hated it so much. At the same time, I'm sure some lip synched fan service video probably get the same crowd laughing and clapping along. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the community has become static enough, that if you try to rock the boat a bit, you are going to be boo'd out of the place and never taken seriously.

Ok, now going back to the original question that you posed about satire. I agree with you there too. I think that satire of course is a valid form of expression. Consequently, I don't really think Kamoc's video was satirical, more than it was just a mockery. Was it harsh? Yes. All good satire is harsh, but at the same time, I always thought good satire had to be well planned, and meticuously executed. Kamoc ripped the Dinosaurs I think 3 times in a thread in a matter of hours, and then a few hours later released his video. When I saw that, it made me think that his video was just a knee jerk reaction against Leontes video, that couldn't have possibly taken more than a day.

If I really thought it was a satire, and not just some cheap semi-witty shots at Leontes, I'd support Kamoc's video as well, because that really would be a first for the AMV world. At least to my knowledge, I haven't seen a satire video whose focus was another video, so while it would be a pretty mean spirited thing to do, it would still be pretty groundbreaking. From where I'm standing though, it was just a quickly put together mockery of the dinosaur style.

KMV, I am up for discussion on this. Keep this on the board, PM me, whatever, this is a lot more interesting than the average thread.

[Spooky Dinosaur Turco]

You are small in the grand scheme of things. Grow the hell up and quit taking yourselves so seriously. All of you. That includes you Dinosaurs, AD, Kusoyaro, and Kamoc.

A tad self-righteous and hypocritical, are we? There wasn't a single post by any Dinosaur in that thread mocking Leontes' video. And EVERYTHING is small in the grand scheme of things. So let's just all roll over and die, shall we, because living our lives would be taking ourselves too seriously.

Ahem, sorry, I just thought his hostility was a bit uncalled for, especially since KMV took the time to actually make a serious thread about an issue of mockery.

Just for the record, yes, I personally believe it's fairly clear that Kamoc was making a mockery of Leontes and the rest of our studio.

We never meant to cause a hostile debate by releasing our videos. If anyone has a right to be offended or upset by what has happened, it's us, but thank you to those who have come to our defense. I'm not upset, and though I haven't spoken with Taylor (Leontes) since Kamoc's thread started, I don't think he would be upset either. I am actually kind of glad that our videos, though they might not be for everyone, are at least stirring up some healthy debate about music videos in general. We just try to make the most honest videos we can, and we hope everyone else does as well.

[Dannywilson]

My intentions were not to be pretentious, but to put into perspective what this whole argument is about. By saying don't take yourselves so seriously, I meant, learn to laugh: At yourself, others, at life. If you take life too seriously, you'll never make it out alive (yeah I know, a good quote from a shitty movie). I have no guff with anyone on this board, and if you people knew me better, you'd know that. I make videos to have fun, express myself, relieve stress, and show people what I'm feeling. I don't take myself seriously and take everything that is said on this board with a grain of salt. You have to realize that satire doesn't always have to be good to be satire, look at "A Modest Proposal" by Jonatahn Swift. It's not in good taste, but it is one of the guidelines by which satire was judged for over a century.

Stealth: I am never optomistic. I ran Mission: Improbable. I'm no longer allowed to be optomistic.

Turco: this is not a defined black and white case of mockery. I do not see myself as being for you, or for Kamoc. I am an Impartial Observer who has no notions that he makes good videos. I think you are groundbreaking, even if thats not my thing, I still give you the respect for what you do. I think I deserve the same respect I give you and I ask that you don't trash me for it.

[StealthVisions]

By saying don't take yourselves so seriously, I meant, learn to laugh: At yourself, others, at life. If you take life too seriously, you'll never make it out alive
Stealth: I am never optomistic. I ran Mission: Improbable. I'm no longer allowed to be optomistic.

Oh trust me, we never have a problem with that...laughing is no stranger to us. I'm also unfamiliar with M:I so you'll have to forgive me for not commenting on it. I realize what you were trying to do, but realize that through this guise of the internet, it's very easy to assume that someone is insulting you...especially here on the org. I hardly ever come here anymore for a few reasons...I dislike personal damaging immaturity. Unfortunately it festers and ferments here like spoiled milk. I just wish people could give ideas that are different a break. Anyways, I got off track there...and I think I've said enough for now. No harm done...I'm reasonably sure anyway.

[dwchang]

We never meant to cause a hostile debate by releasing our videos. If anyone has a right to be offended or upset by what has happened, it's us, but thank you to those who have come to our defense. I'm not upset, and though I haven't spoken with Taylor (Leontes) since Kamoc's thread started, I don't think he would be upset either. I am actually kind of glad that our videos, though they might not be for everyone, are at least stirring up some healthy debate about music videos in general. We just try to make the most honest videos we can, and we hope everyone else does as well.

I still give you the respect for what you do. I think I deserve the same respect I give you and I ask that you don't trash me for it.

I am with Danny on this statement. I think all of us need to learn this respect thing. Even if it's not your thing, we are all creators of a very niche' community and it's really quite self-defeating to discourage each other like this. And I don't mean this with respect to only this "Dinosaur incident," but in general since it's quite rampant all over the forums.

I for the most part agree with KMV about videos getting more stale and I do applaud the Dinosaur's for their (different) vision. Perhaps in time we'll all be able to see whatever beautiful thing it is that you see. However, a warning, this isn't the easiest thing in the world to do...conveying a vision/emotion that is.

I look forward to your next efforts and good luck!

[dwchang]

I for the most part agree with KMV about videos getting more stale and I do applaud the Dinosaur's for their (different) vision.

Just for the record, although I agree with moooo(however many o's there are) about videos recently, by no means am I saying there is a "right" or "wrong" way to make an AMV. I think we should just make whatever "vision" or concept we "see" and have fun doing it. A the same time, even if it's been done, I have seen a number of videos do it (to be frank), better. Basically what I am getting at is don't limit yourself with constraints. Just do what you want.

This coming from a man who has two Escaflowne (Vaughn/Hitomi) Romance videos...because...y'know...there aren't any .

I am teh original!!!!111!!

[moooooo]

I for the most part agree with KMV about videos getting more stale and I do applaud the Dinosaur's for their (different) vision.

Just for the record, although I agree with moooo(however many o's there are) about videos recently, by no means am I saying there is a "right" or "wrong" way to make an AMV. I think we should just make whatever "vision" or concept we "see" and have fun doing it. A the same time, even if it's been done, I have seen a number of videos do it (to be frank), better. Basically what I am getting at is don't limit yourself with constraints. Just do what you want.

This coming from a man who has two Escaflowne (Vaughn/Hitomi) Romance videos...because...y'know...there aren't any .

I am teh original!!!!111!!

I was trying to say don't make videos unless your idea is totally original. Sorry that it came off that way.