Anime Central 2003 Finalists and Winners

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:36 am

Tom the Fish wrote:
The deadline for ACen was before Anime Boston, so I'm not very happy to be labeled as rude.

Tom

I was saying you were...from your previous posts and well..just in general, I don't think so at all. I hope you knew what I was referring to. If not, sorry. I am referring to people who submit like a "gazillion" contests. You aren't like that at all.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:41 am

dwchang wrote:
Tom the Fish wrote:
The deadline for ACen was before Anime Boston, so I'm not very happy to be labeled as rude.

Tom
I was saying you were...from your previous posts and well..just in general, I don't think so at all. I hope you knew what I was referring to. If not, sorry. I am referring to people who submit like a "gazillion" contests. You aren't like that at all.

ARGH that should read "I wasn't saying you were..."

<---just woke up...tired as fuck.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu May 22, 2003 12:07 pm

Lengthy Response ahead. I will do my best to state facts over my opinion. When I do state my opinion, it is just that and I will try my best to put a IMO or something. I would like to note that I didn't originally wanna post details, but I think the pro's outweigh the con's in this case since people seem to have a misunderstanding about what happened. I apologize to those who do not wish me to go into that many details.

Nappy wrote:Well there's alot of contests in a given year, how many really gives you troll status o_O I intended to enter 4 contests, AX and fanime because its in CA and I'll go, AWA cuz everyones gonna be there, I may or may not. And Otakon cuz its one of the biggest and probably the biggest east coast one. I really only entered acen (and animaze, maybe I should drop that one or ill be a troll) cuz quu's thing had it on there, and the contest was only a couple weeks after the deadline I sent it on, so I could get a quick reaction to my vids rather than wait till late June/July for AX/Fanime. I don't want to release my vids online until then because I want it to be fresh when I see it with them, but I also didn't feel like waiting so long to see if ppl like it >_<

First off, I don't think there is a "X videos = troll" equation set in stone. In all honest, it's up to the creator himself to determine when they have been sufficiently recognized for their hard work. It's really a creator-to-creator decision. If you feel the need to submit further, go right ahead. At the same time, we need to respect ACen's rules because it is their contest. They decide the rules and we DECIDE to enter or not. They have their reasons and wishes and we need to respect that.

Secondly, I hope (as I said in my first post about this..the warning), that this didn't come across as an attack to you specifically. If you're wondering, I have no problem with what cons you submitted to. In fact, I intend to submit to Otakon and AWA as well since I will be in attendence.

Nappy wrote:Is it really rude to cut vids that aren't as good for vids that won in some con miles/states away? I mean should my vid or euphoria be dropped from AX (yes I know they don't have this rule) because we won at ACEN, even though the deadlines were the same day. Should they not be shown to a entire new audience, or should they be shown but lose because they already won, and won't ppl complain their votes/applause meant nothing, or the vids were "robbed" Would the winners be happy they won using this rule? I mean I would have like Tom's and MJ's vids in the comp, regardless to other cons they won, who wants to win that way? :l well I know someone but I won't say who o:)

Thirdly, this is the part, I am unsure if I should get into. The misconception seems to be that since a video won an award it was not shown. This was not the case. MJ's Idology was shown and it had won an award yes? That would seem to contradict this misconception. The videos that were not shown in the contest were not shown because either A) the crowd did not give it a good reaction at Pre-judging or B) the coordinators (who, well...are in charge) didn't thinkthe video should be in. So if you guys are worried (as it looks) that great videos were cut because of awards, that is not the case. They were cut because the audience or coordinators...and of course in some cases they made it into the actual contest. I hope this clears things up on that matter.

Lastly, the videos that DID make it into the contest and had won awards, still were under the "award/troll clause," however, they were of course shown because, as, I THINK you said, they deserve to be shown. The audience wants to see the best show possible right?

At the same time, this entirely my opinion, but I think the finalists were very well-chosen. (Again my opinion) Even if the clause were not there, I think the videos chosen as finalists were the best among their categories. I can't emphasize enough that this is my opinion and not that of ACen or the judges. I might also add that those videos were GREAT too, but well...personal opinion. When you put that into prospective as well as the fact videos were NOT cut because they won, I think you see that things weren't as bad as initially misunderstood.

So, in conclusion, the videos were NOT cut because they won awards. They were cut for various other reasons, which were universal for ALL videos.

The only thing that I slightly disagreed with was secondary entries being cut off the bat. Obviously, as I stated above about having the best contest for the audience, cutting great entries only makes it worse. I can name quite a number of secondary entries that I thought were better than entries in the actual contest (I won't name them or what videos I thought were 'worse'), but at the same time this is ACen's rule and we should respect it.

Nappy wrote:Well I don't think any vid can win every award, most vids need to stick to one catergory even if its has elements in all, if they won their catergory, best of, and all the technical/special awards, then wow thats a good vid, and I understand why I didn't win, but maybe I'm just not a sore loser :l and alot of ppl are and their "fun" was taken away because they didn't win anything. Fun for me is seeing it up on the big screen, or hearing ppl tell you it was good, not hearing ppl tell you it was better than those other ones.

I thought it was more polite to have winners the audience would agree with, otherwise it should be a online contest :l I guess others should get honorable mentions if the reaction they got when it was shown was not enough for them...

If ppl are just trying to have fun they shouldn't care about the competition and only care about it being seen and enjoyed. If you really want to win a contest and feel good about it you should at least be on equal footing with all other entries.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I love seeing my video on such a large screen and at the same time showing the audience whatever vision it is I had. I also agree that the audience should get the "best" contest possible for their enjoyment. I'd like to think all of us had fun and I don't think anyone was trying to imply other-wise. I even applaud the fact no one has gotten that angry or flamed yet.

The reason I bring up a video winning every award is because...well..years ago Odorikuruu did win a lot of awards and upset quite a few creators (or so I'm told). Now creators are allowed to feel that way and in turn, the video can be in as many contests as it likes. As stated above, if it's about showing the video to the audience...they were (regardless of if they got an award or not).

As for awards, as I stated above, this is really your own decision. If you feel you have not been adequately recognized, enter it into further cons. I don't mean to come across as "THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT" or whatever. There is no "right" or "wrong" way. It is up to you and at the same time, cons have different rules that we should respect. IIRC JACON has a rule about only vids that are completely NEW being shown. I think these differences are what give a contest character and not "just another contest."

I personally am in the camp of not sending to too many cons, but that doesn't mean I'm "right." We must remember that awards are to recognize creators for their hard work and there are only so many awards to go around. Given, by the same token, an award should not be some 'self-worth' or 'ego' thing (as it seems to be for some). I am perfectly satisfied making videos for myself and having fun. I hope everyone feels the same.

One thing I would like to state, since I HOPE that it helps out, is that I support ACen's rule on awards. At the same time, I support the cons that don't have this rule. Basically, ACen implemented this rule because they wanted to honor as many "NEW" videos as possible. I don't think anyone can argue that a video got screwed and wasn't shown..because they were still shown. There was no "speical" rule for the previous winners during prejudging. We all went through the same "cutting" procedure. It was fair. ACen does this because they'd like other videos to receive recognition and I applaud this.

By the same token, other cons do not do this and I support this as well. What I am getting at is that cons choose their rules and we choose to enter in them and abide by them. We should feel honored to even be given the chance to compete. Why bicker over the rules? It's their contest right?

I hope this isn't coming across as "ACen's way is right..no trolling" because that's not entirely what I feel. So again, I don't have any problems with you submitting to any cons or whateveer. I won't say exactly when I think it's trolling or whatever because well...it depends and in all honesty, my opinion and that of the community doesn't mean anything. If you're having fun, have fun.

Reading over this, I realize the end of it makes no sense...sorry

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Thu May 22, 2003 7:28 pm

Just a little of my own views on these issues in general:

I feel if you have won 2 (or more) awards at 2 different cons with a video then it is time to pack it up and give some other folks a chance. What better motivation to get off one's butt and actually make another video. An entry is allowed in a contest if it meets the contest rules. However most people can probably be gracious enough to be the nice guy/gal and learn personally when it is time to move on. Those who are out to make a name for themselves with awards/recognition are the ones I pay the least attention to. I also feel that the recognition part goes for "getting my video seen by as many people as possible." If you're good, you're good. We and you will know it I say, so one should not feel the need to get everyone in the world to watch their video.

I have always been a big proponent of "support your local con". I would like the idea of preference being given to entries whose creators are attending the con over those who are not attending when it comes to actually getting one's entry into the contest. This is of course supposing that said entries are not detrimental to the overall quality of the contest. But if I had to make a call between 2 very borderline vids with regards to quality when the time allotment for a contest is full, I personally like that method. So to summarize....cons exist to serve the needs of attendees. The AMV contest should serve to entertain con attendees and the creators or whatever else the people running it have in mind. I have never felt that the purpose of AMV contests were to glorify the desires of creators.

I like that Jacon thing of new vids only that was mentioned earlier. Nice idea they have.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri May 23, 2003 11:11 am

outlawed wrote:Just a little of my own views on these issues in general:

I feel if you have won 2 (or more) awards at 2 different cons with a video then it is time to pack it up and give some other folks a chance. What better motivation to get off one's butt and actually make another video. An entry is allowed in a contest if it meets the contest rules. However most people can probably be gracious enough to be the nice guy/gal and learn personally when it is time to move on. Those who are out to make a name for themselves with awards/recognition are the ones I pay the least attention to. I also feel that the recognition part goes for "getting my video seen by as many people as possible." If you're good, you're good. We and you will know it I say, so one should not feel the need to get everyone in the world to watch their video.

I have always been a big proponent of "support your local con". I would like the idea of preference being given to entries whose creators are attending the con over those who are not attending when it comes to actually getting one's entry into the contest. This is of course supposing that said entries are not detrimental to the overall quality of the contest. But if I had to make a call between 2 very borderline vids with regards to quality when the time allotment for a contest is full, I personally like that method. So to summarize....cons exist to serve the needs of attendees. The AMV contest should serve to entertain con attendees and the creators or whatever else the people running it have in mind. I have never felt that the purpose of AMV contests were to glorify the desires of creators.

I like that Jacon thing of new vids only that was mentioned earlier. Nice idea they have.

AMEN! Well said. I in particular agree with the "local" part since well...I'd hate to knock someone out of a contes twho was actually there when well...I'm not willing to be there. Then again, I am a bit of a hypocrite since I have entered in a few smallers ones later in the summer, but I won't go into explaining myself...I do have reasons and was asked to enter.

Anyway, I got de-railed...good points and I also like JACON's rules. Unfortunately, JACON is 2 weeks after ACen so any video that I've just been working on was obviously for ACen and already premiered. POOP.

OmniStrata · Post by **OmniStrata** » Fri May 23, 2003 11:28 am

dwchang wrote:Had there been a fun category...

Damn it all, I can only try so hard...

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri May 23, 2003 11:46 am

OmniStrata wrote:
dwchang wrote:Had there been a fun category...
Damn it all, I can only try so hard...

If it makes you feel any better, I have suggested it.

I actually suggested more than that. I think they need to seperate Drama into Drama and Romance, seperate Action into Action and Horror and lastly Comedy into Comedy and Fun.

I do understand the reasoning though since it'll require more trophies ($$$), but I'd still like contests to do this because IMO (and as was demonstrated by a few videos that didn't fit categories), each of those divisions are well...different. Drama != Romance, Action != Horror (Carlo's Alternate Realities comes to mind), Comedy != Fun.

Either way a good video nonetheless and it's unfortunate we couldn't nominate it for anything..there was just no category that fit.

Ashyukun · Post by **Ashyukun** » Fri May 23, 2003 12:15 pm

suberunker wrote:Was the Honorable mention Utena video "The Two Shall Meet" and happened to use a lot of compositing?

I just checked and realized you don't seem to have this listed up here on the 'org- is ti up for DL anywhere? I'd love to get a copy of it, and I'd imagine at least a few of the others would like to as well.

It would be nice to be able to separate the categories a bit- but I can also see reasoning beyond monetary constraints for having a limited number of categories- with only 3 hours or so, if you get too many categories you have less videos in each, and especially if they're trying to keep the categories somewhat even in the number of contestants (something I think they tried to do a bit this year), you'll end possibly cutting out some better videos in favor of weaker ones to fill the categories.

I do think it would be nice to add a 'fun/upbeat' and 'romance' category though, assuming there are the videos to populate them. I'm on the fence about the 'horror' category. I think we really could have used a 'fun/upbeat' category this year- "Blue Sky Brings Tears" and "Can't Stop the Rock" would have been two strong contenders for it.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri May 23, 2003 2:45 pm

Ashyukun wrote:It would be nice to be able to separate the categories a bit- but I can also see reasoning beyond monetary constraints for having a limited number of categories- with only 3 hours or so, if you get too many categories you have less videos in each, and especially if they're trying to keep the categories somewhat even in the number of contestants (something I think they tried to do a bit this year), you'll end possibly cutting out some better videos in favor of weaker ones to fill the categories.

I do think it would be nice to add a 'fun/upbeat' and 'romance' category though, assuming there are the videos to populate them. I'm on the fence about the 'horror' category. I think we really could have used a 'fun/upbeat' category this year- "Blue Sky Brings Tears" and "Can't Stop the Rock" would have been two strong contenders for it.

No, I agree. It was just a suggestion and at the same time I see why they do it this way..it's mainly $$$ btw. I do think there could be strong videos in all the categories. I mean we saw some REALLY good videos in Drama or Comedy that should've been in Fun and no offense to them (b/c they were great0, but they had no chance in those categories. At the same time...one could say I'm just saying this because I made a romance video

. I'd *like* to think I'd have a good shot at that award, but well...we'll never know

.

I don't know details, but I *think* fun *may* show it's head next year. This is from a fairly short conversation with julius.

suberunker · Post by **suberunker** » Fri May 23, 2003 7:50 pm

I just checked and realized you don't seem to have this listed up here on the 'org- is ti up for DL anywhere? I'd love to get a copy of it, and I'd imagine at least a few of the others would like to as well.

I'll have it up after Fanime. I'd like to see some fresh reactions to it when I attend that con, this is assuming it makes finals....::fingers crossed::, since I couldn't make ACen due to exams. Hehe...dang school doesn't give me enough time to work on AMVs...much less go see more.

suberunker