If the "eyes" went away...

[paizuri]

Lion King was Kimba the White Lion.

[Chaos Angel]

Lion King was Hamlet + Bambi (Bamlet?)

Hambi!!

Mmmm.... haaammmm......

Its been so long since I seen sleeping beauty all I remember is she gets pricked.. Goes to sleep, some guy kisses her while she's asleep (isn't that some form of rape?) then she gets up. How did they make that into a feature length animation?

There's primarily two parts of that movie I remember with distinction. One is the three faeries, Flora, Fauna, and Meriweather. Meriweather was my favorite. ^_^

The other part of that movie that I primarily remember with distinction, is Millificent. How can you not love that evil bitch?!?!

[dwchang]

Disney, again, is narrow.

I have to argue that point. If you read my previous post, bear in mind that Disney was responsible for the first feature length animated film ever.

Disney is responsible for Fantasia, which was a rather experimental animated film when it was made.

Disney treats children like they have brains in their heads (which is not true of most animation made for children in the United States. Though I have to admit that things have improved in recent years...)

You have to understand... ever since I was in Jr. High School, I have been concerned about the dismissive nature of animation in America... and how most animations for kids are just commercials with bad plots (and bad animation) and that most films for kids are just banal and loathsome.

Disney gave kids real adventure... sure, they were family films...
but danger has existed in many of the Disney films.

When Disney did Beauty and the Beast, they researched over 100 versions of Beauty and the Beast as they worked their way to making the final films.


Look at Gargoyles... that was one of the better American made animated series I can think of... and that came from Disney.

Now... Disney is huge... and there are many aspects of Disney I dislike (and downright despise), but the creative minds behind the actual art of Disney deserve credit and admiration of which they are certainly due.

-Uncle Milo

Well y'see my point wasn't to insult them. I was just stating (as you are as well) that Disney films generally are for children or younger adults (although I enjoy them as well as other adults). I am only stating the misconception that animation is for children. The main reason I stated Disney and my point is well...b/c I watch anime b/c it has so many different genres and stories (unlike Disney, who is still creative and imaginitive, but they obviously don't have mecha or fantasy or drama and so on).

I think more or less, I agree with your points and you are focusing too much on a statement...a badly worded one at that

[Chaos Angel]

However... I never denied that Disney was a household name...

Actually, in my own convoluted way, I was agreeing with you. Guess it wasn't too clear, though.

and speaking of Hunchback... they actually had a musical number about a man suffering from sexual anguish!

There needs to be more musical numbers about sexual anguish. ^_^

Hunchback is very good, I find it to be very powerful, but I think some of it's effect is lost because it tries to be both a serious drama and a children's entertainment movie. They throw in the gargoyles and the musical numbers to keep the kids entertained (although I do love Quasimodo's song) while the adults watch the drama aspects. It tries to hard to have it both ways, and it would be better if it focused on the drama aspects.

But, Disney probably knew they had to do something to bring in kids, so they went with it. Still... my aunt told me that my cousin, about 5 at the time, had a massive crying fit at the part when they strapped Quasimodo down and threw vegetables at him.

The story was never meant for kids at all. Hell, doesn't Quasimodo commit suicide in the book, because he could not save Esmerelda? Never actually read it, but I've heard that is the "actual" ending.

[dwchang]

8)

The way I heard it is that the big eyes are a way of paying tribute to Walt Disney's early efforts in Animation, since many credit Walt Disney as being the father of anime.

I dont remember who started it or which Walt Disney character(I thought it was the steamboat pilot character?) but it has kinda become a tradition that seems to be going away with time. It was very common on older anime but newer stuff doesnt seem to have as much of it. Not sure if its a good or bad thing.

I consider it one of the trademarks of Jap anime. Some like it some dont.

Actually...I *think* the big eyes in anime (well recently, unsure about this tribute thing) is to show innocence and in general to display emotions better. Obviously with bigger eyes, you can show more emotion with them by drawing things different (with such a large area). As for innocence, you'll probably notice that generally female characters and children have big eyes and males have more narrow ones. Also, obviously villains have narrow eyes. This further supports the idea of innocence and whatnot.

One could even extrapolate psychologically that the reason villains have narrow eyes is because they see the world that way...only one way...theirs. This was done excellently in Perfect Blue.

SPOILERS!!!!!

If you notice the killer has strange and small eyes and the main character's agent (the female who was in the end the villain) also had narrow eyes. It was obvious this was because they could only see the world through their own distorted and narrow view...which was even further exaggerated by their eyes having strange features.

[dwchang]

Actually... I'm one of the few people who liked Pocahontas (though it is near the bottom of my list of Disney animations I liked).

Yeah, let's rewrite history and present to our children nice happy environmentally friendly indians who didn't exploit nature!

Everybody sing...

I agree with you - Pocahontas does for American History what Disney's Hercules did for Greek Mythology...

still... Pocahontas was aimed for kids... and movies like BRAVEHEART (which won and Oscar for best picture) was aimed at adults and it is a historical fiasco as well... I'm angrier at movies aimed at adults that take HUGE leaps of fact then children's movies that do so. Obviously, any historically based film is going to be modified for entertainment sake...
but a small change in Historical fact can be tolerated, but a GIANT disgrace (like suggesting William Wallace impregented the princess of England, when in fact the real princess was only 9 when the events of Braveheart took place) are just infuriating.
(and again... I will forgive the historical inaccuracies in a movie like Poccahontas... as huge as they are... because this film should never be viewed as "educational material" and parents who are concened about the truth can explain the situation to the kids... but I don't want to go on further with this or I'll be writing all night).

It's not Disney's job to teach history. Disney had made the decision (like it or not) to try to get the idea that hatred of other cultures is a bad idea... they just should have left it at that and not connected it to the names of real people... still... they did...
Since I know it's a Disney movie, I know to put aside the truth just so I can enjoy the film. (Just wondering... are you equally annoyed with books that are changed by Disney?)

Well... I have to stop here...

-Uncle Milo

I know what you're trying to say Milo, but I 100% agree with Earthcurrent. It really irks me how Disney changes history and classical literature. Given most of these stories wouldn't be proper for children if they kept them true, but it still irks me. I basically fear the day when children who saw Disney movies think they are the real version.

For example, the Hunchback of Notre Dame is an excellent book and has many tragic (and classic) moments. Disney's version has NONE of this and a child could easily grow up thinking this classical literature was like Disneys when in fact the female is burned at the stake and the hunchback is killed (it's actually quite good). Same goes for historical interpretations.

Again, I do see your point and it's not THAT big of a deal, but I can't deny that it irks me and it'll irk me further when children become ignorant and take Disney's version as fact over the real.

[dwchang]

Lion King was Kimba the White Lion.

DAMN IT Andy! Beat me to it.

Propyro, Paizuri is right, the Lion King is based off of an anime. In fact, the anime creator tried to even sue disney, but well...it's disney. This is one of the well-documented incidents of Disney blatantly stealing. I mean the only difference is in the Lion King he's named Simba instead of Kimba and he's not white. The story is fundamentally the same (the whole father dying, uncle and growing up that is). So, unfortunately you're wrong Pyro and well..this is one of the things that REALLY pisses me off about Disney.

Somewhat on-topic, but does anyone remember the Simpson's episode where Bleeding Gums Murphy dies? In it, there is a scene where Darth Vader, the Lion from Lion King and someone else are in the clouds (talking to Lisa). Darth Vader says something to Luke, but the Lion says "Kimba, I mean...Simba." That was an obvious mockery of Disney and this Kimba incident. I found it hilarious that Matt Groening put it in. So again, well documented.

[dwchang]

Mulan

I'm getting picky, but I disliked this movie. Not the movie perse, but it's inaccurate portrayal of asian people (given, I'm asian). I don't think the Chinese ever wore JAPANESE kimonos.

[Lyrs]

Mulan

I'm getting picky, but I disliked this movie. Not the movie perse, but it's inaccurate portrayal of asian people (given, I'm asian). I don't think the Chinese ever wore JAPANESE kimonos.

mulan had a great soundtrack, but not good historical track.

yep, the chinese would rather die then wear kimonos back then...

/end

[Chaos Angel]

One could even extrapolate psychologically that the reason villains have narrow eyes is because they see the world that way...only one way...theirs. This was done excellently in Perfect Blue.

SPOILERS!!!!!

If you notice the killer has strange and small eyes and the main character's agent (the female who was in the end the villain) also had narrow eyes. It was obvious this was because they could only see the world through their own distorted and narrow view...which was even further exaggerated by their eyes having strange features.

Oh, I completely did not catch that aspect at all. ::bows::

It does make sense, though...