um what does this mean? :\ (hitokiri battousai translation?)

superspike · Post by **superspike** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:30 pm

im betting that at least ONE of you know what *Hitokiri Battousai* really means right?

cuz i dont -_-;
pleaze tell me what it means in japanese.

cuz i just saw a lil of Rurouni kenshin but i didnt get to see a lot

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:38 pm

superspike wrote:im betting that at least ONE of you know what *Hitokiri Battousai* really means right?

cuz i dont -_-;
pleaze tell me what it means in japanese.

cuz i just saw a lil of Rurouni kenshin but i didnt get to see a lot

Hitokiri = Assassin/Manslayer, etc.

Battousai ~ this is a lot harder to translate, but basically Battou-jitsu means Sword Drawing Technique. Kenshin is known for his quick sword drawing techniques and thus the Battousai on the end. It's kind of like a title that describes his specialty. He was feared for his Quick Draws. I believe Jinei was even scared of him drawing his sword since it's "God-Speed."

Other Hitokiris usually just have their name like Hitokiri Gentatsu, Hitokiri Jinei, etc., but Kenshin isn't known as Hitokiri Kenshin/Himura, but instead by his "specialty." Make sense?

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:16 am

Kenshin's quick draw ability comes from the sword style he practices. It is not in this name and this title has no direct relation to that.

"Hitokiri" is manslayer.

"Battousai": The word "Battou" is the act of unsheathing the sword and "sai" is part of a name which is usually assigned to a samurai. So "Hitokiri Battousai" is a name which can represent a samurai that slays people aggressively.

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:22 am

One clarification I mistyped something. The quick draw does not come from the style's name that Kenshin uses ("Hiten Mitsurugi-ryu"). Quick draw is just an inherent part of this style which they made up for the manga.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:54 am

outlawed wrote:Kenshin's quick draw ability comes from the sword style he practices. It is not in this name and this title has no direct relation to that.

"Hitokiri" is manslayer.

"Battousai": The word "Battou" is the act of unsheathing the sword and "sai" is part of a name which is usually assigned to a samurai. So "Hitokiri Battousai" is a name which can represent a samurai that slays people aggressively.

Yes, but in your explanation, you just said the same thing "the act of unsheathing the sword." That's pretty much what "quick sword drawing techniques" as I explained above.

Now of course Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu is a technique rooted in these techniques and HENCE the reason for his title...like I said again (i.e. I said specialty instead). You're really just saying the same thing I said. The "sai" isn't necessarilyi b/c he's a samurai. "Sai" is just used on the end to make it a "title" of some sort. All I'm getting at is the explanation is more or less the same....

I believe Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu means something like Soaring Dragon's Style or something to that degree.

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:11 am

Well your explanation made it seem like the title indicated drawing the sword fast. But it doesn't mean that. The best way I could put it is that it means he is aggressive. Battou just means unsheathing the sword. It does not indicate he is a quick draw. The dramatic effect of this title is that it is menacing and that is all I was trying to get across. As for sai it is part of the title and was commonly used for samurai back then. Not just anyone had sai attached.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:18 am

outlawed wrote:Well your explanation made it seem like the title indicated drawing the sword fast. But it doesn't mean that. The best way I could put it is that it means he is aggressive. Battou just means unsheathing the sword. It does not indicate he is a quick draw. The dramatic effect of this title is that it is menacing and that is all I was trying to get across. As for sai it is part of the title and was commonly used for samurai back then. Not just anyone had sai attached.

I see what you're saying. No, that's not what I meant (but I can see how you thought that). Basically the title Hitokiri Battousai was supposed to drive fear into the hearts of his opponents BECAUSE of his techniques and whatnot (which the battous is related to...his style that is). Like you said, it's for dramatic effect.

Actually a curious antecdode, but the creator actually invented quite a few words for the show. I think Rurouni (which means wanderer in the show) isn't really a word. Maybe it now, but when it first appeared that is...this is all from memory mind you...

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:50 am

I hate to harp on this but...

dwchang wrote: I see what you're saying. No, that's not what I meant (but I can see how you thought that).

Got that from here:

dwchang wrote: Kenshin is known for his quick sword drawing techniques and thus the Battousai on the end.

dwchang wrote: Basically the title Hitokiri Battousai was supposed to drive fear into the hearts of his opponents BECAUSE of his techniques and whatnot (which the battous is related to...his style that is). Like you said, it's for dramatic effect.

I don't think you are following me on this. HB was a name given to him by his opponents because he was menacing and they were fearful of how skillfull he was (but more importantly, his nature). It has no connection to his sword style as he still would have been given that title regardless of what techniques he used. It is more tied to the personal nature of Kenshin and the manner in which he kills. The manner being with murderous intent. Not necessarily the style in which he swings the sword. If we think only in terms of skill it is because he is skillfull not because of the style he uses. To simplify, he got the nickname because he was badass, which I think we both agree on ^_^

dwchang wrote: Actually a curious antecdode, but the creator actually invented quite a few words for the show. I think Rurouni (which means wanderer in the show) isn't really a word. Maybe it now, but when it first appeared that is...this is all from memory mind you...

The word "Rurou" means to wanderer. So "Rurou ni" means to wander. This is real. He made up all of Kenshin's moves and a lot of other stuff in there. Lots of stuff is sampled from historical and adapted for the outlandish. For example, the Shinsen Gumi were for real. Regarding his making up of moves: mostly revolved around taking some cool kanji and putting them together. Japanese fans could probably appreciate that short description I make there.

SIDE NOTE: The only true great part of the story of Kenshin that has depth in the manga which elevated it past the normal shounen manga fare comes from knowing what Kenshin was later and then when you find out the cold murderer he used to be during the reminiscence. The focus of the OVA wonderfully handled the concept of personal redemption and added some nice touches to augment the manga source IMHO. I hate it when I see stuff where fans talk about that OVA and banter "trust" and "betrayal" becaue it has 0 to do with those. Those words are some marketing names ADV decided to use on the package. This reason I am wastefully harping on this HB stuff is because it relates to understanding that good part of Kenshin.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:37 am

outlawed wrote: I don't think you are following me on this. HB was a name given to him by his opponents because he was menacing and they were fearful of how skillfull he was (but more importantly, his nature). It has no connection to his sword style as he still would have been given that title regardless of what techniques he used. It is more tied to the personal nature of Kenshin and the manner in which he kills. The manner being with murderous intent. Not necessarily the style in which he swings the sword. If we think only in terms of skill it is because he is skillfull not because of the style he uses. To simplify, he got the nickname because he was badass, which I think we both agree on ^_^

Nah, I know what you're talking about, HOWEVER the reason the "Battou" is in it is b/c that means "to draw ones sword." Now the reason he got any title of Hitokiri X is b/c he scared his opponents (as you have stated). I don't mean to at all confuse the fact that he got this name since he was a REALLY good killer. I *totally* agree, just trying to tie the "Battou" to it. There were other Hitokiris, but he got this specific name b/c of his tremendous skill (more so than anyone else).

pquote]The word "Rurou" means to wanderer. So "Rurou ni" means to wander. This is real. He made up all of Kenshin's moves and a lot of other stuff in there. Lots of stuff is sampled from historical and adapted for the outlandish. For example, the Shinsen Gumi were for real. Regarding his making up of moves: mostly revolved around taking some cool kanji and putting them together. Japanese fans could probably appreciate that short description I make there.[/quote]

Grrr...I even looked this up in my Japanese Dictionary to no avail. Well..you can blame my japanese friend who told me this. She subtitled the anime for our Anime Club (in fact she subs professionally now) and she told me this...blame her

. I tend to believe her since well...she's Japanese (born there and all).

As for the historical background, I'm REALLY glad you didn't type more since it would've just been a waste since I knew it

. I know of how well..Kenshin is LOOSELY based on true Japanese History. In fact, I believe Saitoh Hajime and Okita were the true Shinsen Gumi's 3rd and 1st Division Captains. In fact, there is a line in Kenshin where someone asks Saitoh if he wants to drink and he says something like "I don't drink. I kill when I drink." and apparently this is tied to the fact that the real Saitoh died of liver failure from excessive drinking. I'm assuming a Japanese person would know this and catch the joke

. Either way...I as well found this really cool and it made me interested in the era (hence this "research.").

SIDE NOTE: The only true great part of the story of Kenshin that has depth in the manga which elevated it past the normal shounen manga fare comes from knowing what Kenshin was later and then when you find out the cold murderer he used to be during the reminiscence. The focus of the OVA wonderfully handled the concept of personal redemption and added some nice touches to augment the manga source IMHO. I hate it when I see stuff where fans talk about that OVA and banter "trust" and "betrayal" becaue it has 0 to do with those. Those words are some marketing names ADV decided to use on the package. This reason I am wastefully harping on this HB stuff is because it relates to understanding that good part of Kenshin.

Oh I TOTALLY agree. I'll tell you what makes it worse...calling it SAMURAI X and making people think it's just this one-part story and not a flashback of a HUGE manga. I hate to say it, but I sort of hate how ADV did this since a ton of potential Kenshin fans have just been brainwashed into this "Samurai X...yes he is cool..he kills a lot...badass" mentality instead of the true nature and depth of the show

. I feel your pain.

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:35 am

dwchang wrote: Grrr...I even looked this up in my Japanese Dictionary to no avail. Well..you can blame my japanese friend who told me this. She subtitled the anime for our Anime Club (in fact she subs professionally now) and she told me this...blame her . I tend to believe her since well...she's Japanese (born there and all).

I checked with my Japanese friend and translator on this. He's bilingual and has read a decent amount of the manga. Now as for the origins of the word and how old it is I don't know. But Rurou is a common word as far as I can tell. It is in my dictionary. Thing to keep in mind is the word to look up is Rurou (ni is just a particle). Interestingly enough when we were discussing this it jogged his memory and he told me that he seems to recall the mangaka commenting that the original title was just going to be Rurou ni.

dwchang wrote: Oh I TOTALLY agree. I'll tell you what makes it worse...calling it SAMURAI X and making people think it's just this one-part story and not a flashback of a HUGE manga. I hate to say it, but I sort of hate how ADV did this since a ton of potential Kenshin fans have just been brainwashed into this "Samurai X...yes he is cool..he kills a lot...badass" mentality instead of the true nature and depth of the show . I feel your pain.

Funny you should mention that. The mangaka of Kenshin publically stated (during his manga after Kenshin in Jump, Gun Blaze West I believe,) that he saw the English version of Kenshin and that they called it Samurai X. He said it was such a cool name he wishes he though of it so he could have named Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai X. Different Strokes for different folks. Unfortunately most Japanese have little grasp of the English language. Like some anime fans here, the exotic and what is different tends to fascinate.

Well my personal feeling is that to appreciate Kenshin all they need to see is TV ep1 and then watch the OVA. This gets the point of what the good part of kenshin was. Of course now it's on TV and maybe some of those kids will see the OVA. But the symbolism in the OVA is probably going to be over their head knowing the demographic of Kenshin. But Kenshin is still good fun until the end of the Shishio stuff. Anybody who really knows about this stuff knows what that manga's demographic is and what it will mostly entail. From Dragonball to Saint Seiya to Kenshin. There is a certain core that shounen manga posess. Many are able to transcend the requisites in interesting ways like Hunter x Hunter. Others only do it briefly a la Kenshin.

Others are.... well they are what they are:
Seiya: "Pegasus Ryu-Seiken"
Bad Guy: "Nani?! Sonna Bakana! Ima wa chigaou"

And we enjoy them for that ^_^

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um what does this mean? :\ (hitokiri battousai translation?)

um what does this mean? :\ (hitokiri battousai translation?)

Re: um what does this mean? :\