Simply Beautiful (NieA_7)

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:25 pm

lots of people love to overanalize things. I am not one of them. If something needs to be analized then thats ok, but if the meat of the story focuses on double meanings and alegory then I deem the plot crap.

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:40 pm

[quote="Propyro"]is is possible that you've over analized the show? I know that when i was in my writers craft class my teacher was talking aobut post modern writing and he was pulling all this stuff out of his ass about what the writers were trying to get at.[quote]

I hate to tell you this, but many stories are designed for a reason... and aren't just a collection of events that happen in sequential order.

"The Crucible" was not just a story about the Salem witch trials... it was a metaphor for the insanity of the McCarthy era... which was going on when the play was written.

NieA_7 is most certainly a metaphor for Japan. Americans keep having the arrogance of assuming that anime are made for us... but they are made for Japanese... who have an entirely different history and culture then we do.

Japan is rather xenophobic...

the aliens in NieA_7 represent foriegners.

The whole alien class system is just like the class system for India.

NieA is actually a representation for Americans.

You see... Mayuko follows the rules and denies herself and does everything in a propper way... works hard and studies hard and does things as she sees

NieA is a loudmouth, an annoying freeloader and completely self-centered. Yet... things keep working out for NieA... and people admire her free spirit.

Mayuko gets very angry with NieA... and yet... she feels like something is missing whe NieA is gone.

Mayuko, like Japan during the time after World War II, has lost a sense of identity...

The aliens show up at the time when the new Japan began to open its doors to foriegners...

and where the characters in the show become used to the aliens over time... the same is true of Japan... where they just got used to foriegners coming into their country.

If you ever meet Taliesin Jaffe, who is the voice director of NieA_7, you'd be able to hear more metaphors that exist in the show. While I grasp some of them, there are many things in the show I certainly don't get... because I don't know what life has been like in Japan.

Taliesin pointed out that characters are eating and dringking certain things throughout the show which actually aren't made in Japan anymore... these items serve to better give us the idea of the time period of when the show is set... and that helps further establish the metaphors... but again... I can't remember exactly what Taliesin said on that subject anymore...

I don't know why people seem so fearful of shows that contain metaphors and other elements of storytelling...

I mean... even Cowboy Bebop is filled with metaphors... the show has episodes with morals that apply to our current day society... but they use the science fiction genre as the setting of their stories.

Stories that contain more complexity are often the better titles, weather they are anime or novels or tv series or movies.

I mean... The Hulk comic book was just a metaphor. Stan Lee has often told how The Hulk simply represents his inner rage and so he decided to make a character that represented his own desires to sometimes "hulk out" and take out his frustrations.

I doubt very much that your teacher was "pulling stuff out of his ass."

-Uncle Milo

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:56 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:lots of people love to overanalize things. I am not one of them. If something needs to be analized then thats ok, but if the meat of the story focuses on double meanings and alegory then I deem the plot crap.

Most stories have metaphors and alegory to them. That's what make them great stories.

You apparently would call NieA_7, The Crucible, Brazil, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Watership Down, The Lord of the Rings, and an endless series of other films, books, anime, comic books and tv series crap because of the deeper meanings behind them.

Sure... a title like Cowboy Bebop is simply using a genre to tell stories that give us morals that apply to our own lives... and so the leap isn't nearly as difficult or thought provoking...

and some titles (I just mentioned the Hulk in my last response as well) find their origins in metaphor and double meaning... but from there fly off into simple entertainment.

Even the X-Men was created with the idea of dealing with issues of discrimination.

However... more complicated titles are much more challenging when they try to get across an original story which also serves as an important message

The Crucible dealing with the McCarthy era

Watership Down dealing with England as a nation shortly up to the events of WWII

Some of Hitchcock's films deal with his own inner troubles dealing with his strict religious upbringing.

NieA_7 dealing with the many issues of Japan trying to enter the modern world after WWII

I think your sweeping generalizations just show either a lazy disinterest or just an out and out ignorance.

-Uncle Milo

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:02 am

Mroni wrote:What the class structure of the aliens means does. Why the ship disapears does this is something called a plot if you introduce these elements then you are required by god almighty to finish them. I might buy the manga after its been out awhile to see if the plot is worked on.

Mr Oni

Well... given your comments that I have read in various other forums, I doubt you'd ever be able to understand. It would require thinking.

The alien class system is a representation of the class system that exists in India... but how could you understand that when you have such animoisty toward anyone who comes from outside the country. Since you have nothing but hate to say about children who suffered during World War II (which you made so clear in your crude and vile comments on the movie Grave of the Fireflies) I can quite happily state that you would never understand a story that tackles the issues withing a culture that you have no concerns about.

I would strongly urge you just go back to your images of pre-teen anime characters (the ones you frequently post about in other forums) and jack off (as you love to talk about in your posts) which seems to be one of the only things you have enough brain power to carry out.

Your demands about how stories should be written are laughable as any kind of plot complexity just sends you into a frustrated rant, displating for all the infinite expanses of your own ignorance.

Hopefully these comments have been straight forward enough for even you to understand.

-Uncle Milo

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:07 am

well thats just how i felt when i was doing post modern literature. It was weird, all these weird things my teacher was pulling out of seemingly no where. I always felt awkward trying to do stuff like that. It's problaby got a lot to do with my lack of eloquence, if i was an eloquent person i'd probably be able to support any view i wanted, i'm sure it's possible to say almost any thing and get people to belive it if you say it eloquently. but i can't do that so it feels weird when people show me these things that i can't explain or don't know.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 1:11 am

Why the ship disappears is something I've wondered about.

My guess:

The ship represents the connection the aliens have to their homeworld. The leaving of it suggests the aliens integration into human society, as well as losing much of their own selves - much like a non-Japanese person, to gain full Japanese citizenship, has to get a Japanese name, among other things. The aliens have adopted human ways, and hence their ship is no longer needed. Where is the alien culture in the show? Aside from a few things like Niea's jacket, there isn't any.

While I am thinking about Niea metaphors, I believe Chiaki, Mayuko's UFO nut friend, is both the representation of the naive foreigner who has an idealized view of Japan (or the aliens, since Chiaki is Japanese), as well being a sort of caricature of "foreign obsessed" Japanese women (there is a segment like that), who will get a foreign boyfriend, but only for fun or to show off - not for genuine romantic feelings. In a sense, a Japanese version of the annoying American otaku (although I did like Chiaki a lot in the series).

Just my thoughts.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 3:06 am

UncleMilo wrote:
CaTaClYsM wrote:lots of people love to overanalize things. I am not one of them. If something needs to be analized then thats ok, but if the meat of the story focuses on double meanings and alegory then I deem the plot crap.
You apparently would call NieA_7, The Crucible, Brazil, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Watership Down, The Lord of the Rings, and an endless series of other films, books, anime, comic books and tv series crap because of the deeper meanings behind them.

There is a difference between allegory, and applicability, and a theme. Lord of the Rings uses applicability. Eva uses allegory. Lord of the Rings = Good story, Eva = Crap, get the idea now?

Oh and BTW, X - Men uses a THEME (racism)

It may surprize you to find out that alot of stories with alegory have crappy plots. Why you ask? Well first off because they need allegory so that people like YOU can go and overanalyze it and proclaim it's greatness because of a simple double meaning to others and shun those who have different opinions by calling them ignorant.

I think your sweeping generalizations just show either a lazy disinterest or just an out and out ignorance.

Time for english class
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=allegory&r=2
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theme
http://dictionary.reference.com/search? ... bility&r=2

And while were at it, go back and read the thread about hellsing being based on hermetic texts. You know, the one my lazy ass wrote about the refrences to Hermes described in the Ripley Scroll and such.

Mroni · Post by **Mroni** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:25 pm

UncleMilo wrote:
Mroni wrote:What the class structure of the aliens means does. Why the ship disapears does this is something called a plot if you introduce these elements then you are required by god almighty to finish them. I might buy the manga after its been out awhile to see if the plot is worked on.

Mr Oni
Well... given your comments that I have read in various other forums, I doubt you'd ever be able to understand. It would require thinking.

The alien class system is a representation of the class system that exists in India... but how could you understand that when you have such animoisty toward anyone who comes from outside the country. Since you have nothing but hate to say about children who suffered during World War II (which you made so clear in your crude and vile comments on the movie Grave of the Fireflies) I can quite happily state that you would never understand a story that tackles the issues withing a culture that you have no concerns about.

I would strongly urge you just go back to your images of pre-teen anime characters (the ones you frequently post about in other forums) and jack off (as you love to talk about in your posts) which seems to be one of the only things you have enough brain power to carry out.

Your demands about how stories should be written are laughable as any kind of plot complexity just sends you into a frustrated rant, displating for all the infinite expanses of your own ignorance.

Hopefully these comments have been straight forward enough for even you to understand.

-Uncle Milo

Hmm well I think you read too much into stuff Mr milo anyway nothing you have said satisfys me we are talking about the story. Lots of things have deeper meanings but the deeper meanings are not the plot dammit. Where did the freakin mother ship go why did nea disapeaer??? These are simple straight forward questions that are not explained. Of course I feel sorry for children hurt by war what are you retarded? As for that anti american biased propaganda piece called grave of the fireflys which if nothing else is mediocore at best so I don't like it bite me. I have no animosity toward foreigners unless they attack my country physically or verbally or they live in France.

Mr Oni

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:45 pm

that, was a little hard to follow, for a while you were on topic but then you trailed off into god knows what.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:33 am

oh, and GOTFF wasn't any more anti-American than Empire of the sun was anti-japanese. I would say that those films were both anti-War.