What the AMV forum is all about?
- AbsoluteDestiny
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:56 pm
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
What the AMV forum is all about?
These are some personal opinions of mine which stem from a whole variety of events over the last six months. Feel free to discuss them but I'm not likely to get into a long debate about them myself as they are just here as food for thought. It also is not designed as a comment about individual members or even groups of members, it is a very generalised view of forum activity over a large period of time.
The forum here on animemusicvideos.org has some very beneficial uses, including:
1) Having a place where people can talk about videos they like or have made
2) Having a place where people can advertise their own videos
3) Having a place where people can ask for help about technical problems
4) having a place where people can offer and trade opinions of their work
5) Having a place where people can find out about contests and conventions, organise meeting at these events etc..
These elements also lead to some very good things - amv creators and watchers get to know each other, talk to one another, give each other ideas, form multi-creator projects and generally enjoy being amongst people of shared interests.
The forum also has several features which are there as an added bonus - not directly required for an animemusicvideos community but are there as privileges:
1) Anime and music forums for general discussion of the 2 elements primarily used in the videos on the site
2) Off-topic discussion, where fellow members can talk and debate about things they are interested in.
These are all good things, really. There are some things, however, which go beyond what is a desirable requirement of a forum such as this and these elements form a small part of some troubles within the forum community.
The forums used for personal attacks:
It's against the rules but it doesn't mean it never happens. This isn't really the right place to talk about whether someone likes or dislikes another member. Talk about a video, sure, but there is no reason to bring personal opinions about other people to the forum. This happens an awful lot - the "Attitudes" thread, whilst being an honest and thought-out opinion of how people behave should never actually need to happen in a place like this. The forum is here for people to talk about the things they enjoy not to rant about the other people on the forum.
The forums used for self-amusement:
Everyone enjoys making a post about something they find funny, it's natural. However, there comes a point in which the forum (the OT forums especially) start to be used as chat rooms. Now there's nothing wrong with that in theory however this can in practice develop into people posting random nonsense out of boredom. OK, that's harmless enough too... but this kind of forum use also invites trolling as a forum pastime.
Forum trolling is in many ways similar to personal attacks but it comes in the form of posting deliberately nonsense messages in order to create havoc. This sort of forum use is sometimes cleaned up by moderators but cannot really be controlled all that easily.
It's usually when someone goes totally nuts in terms of havoc posting when action is taken.
Similarly trolling can be in milder forms, such as posting EVA SUCKS in any thread discussing evangelion (or any other example of thread distraction). What can you do about that, when it's someone's opinion? Lots of things are opinions but that doesn't mean they are appropriate in that place.
I think what I'm trying to depict with this post is a distinction between two ideas of what the forum is:
1) A forum that is there for the benefit of the community as a whole
or
2) A forum that is there for the benefit of the a-m-v.org members individually and to be used as they individually desire.
It is number 2 that concerns me. It's all very well making a thread about how such-and-such a person is elitist/bootlegger/etc... but it does nothing for the community except cause people to take sides and thing badly of other creators, sometimes without ever meeting them. It's all very well posting porn or warez or anything else you might be interested in but it does little for (and in some cases can threaten) the community. It's all very well having fun posting nonsense and insulting/irritating other members because there's nothing better to do but it only causes animosity which leads to people not actually wanting to take part in the forum community.
The method of moderating the forum so far has presumed number 2 as well. There has been very much a philosophy of "let people do what they like but limit/moderate users who take advantage of their freedom to post."
However, I don't think this approach is really working. Whilst the site rules are good they do not stop milder forms of flaming and trolling on the forum - there's only so much you can moderate and a lot will pass under the radar.
What was created as a forum to benefit the community has turned into a forum that wants to benefit the individual members... and to be honest it's far too easy for a member who is in no way interested in the community to sign up and cause trouble. In my opinion, at least.
So, what to do?
Well, I'm not sure... it's tricky. I think that you can have all the rules you like but people are just going to get annoyed at exceptions being made and some things being allowed and others not... Also, not everyone cares for rules and many new members don't read them.
I think if the forum is to benefit the community then perhaps it could be focused at just AMVs and the enjoyment of them.
This would unfortunately mean getting rid of the Off Topic forums entirely and possibly even removing General Anime and Music but extending the AMV Suggestions forum to a general AMV idea thinking pot that can also include music and anime discussions but with an amv focus.
It sounds incredibly harsh, I know, but I think it would really help produce a more stable and hopefully more creative online amv community as people won't be disuaded from the forums by trolling and laming.
I used to like the OT forums - they used to contain interesting discussions and funny random internet stuff. Nowadays, they can be fun but the inevitably get talked away form the topic by members who chat on the forums. It's not a bad thing in small doses and I'm not pointing any fingers because really it's just an effect that comes about with there being a lot more people on the forums these days that topics become off-topic fast.
In short, I like the amv forums and I like the things they give to the community but I'd hate them to transform into a place where only trolls and egomaniacs can come to post nonsense and flame people. This place is for talking about how much we like amvs, what cool ones we are making, organising new amvs and meeting up. I'd like to see the forum be all about that stuff again.
The amv commnuity is on the whole a really good one - the offline interactions of the community members really make it all worthwhile. There's nothing stopping the online community having the same thing.... or at least in my opinion, but maybe I'm just being too purist, idealistic and naive. Ah well, there's my thoughts.
The forum here on animemusicvideos.org has some very beneficial uses, including:
1) Having a place where people can talk about videos they like or have made
2) Having a place where people can advertise their own videos
3) Having a place where people can ask for help about technical problems
4) having a place where people can offer and trade opinions of their work
5) Having a place where people can find out about contests and conventions, organise meeting at these events etc..
These elements also lead to some very good things - amv creators and watchers get to know each other, talk to one another, give each other ideas, form multi-creator projects and generally enjoy being amongst people of shared interests.
The forum also has several features which are there as an added bonus - not directly required for an animemusicvideos community but are there as privileges:
1) Anime and music forums for general discussion of the 2 elements primarily used in the videos on the site
2) Off-topic discussion, where fellow members can talk and debate about things they are interested in.
These are all good things, really. There are some things, however, which go beyond what is a desirable requirement of a forum such as this and these elements form a small part of some troubles within the forum community.
The forums used for personal attacks:
It's against the rules but it doesn't mean it never happens. This isn't really the right place to talk about whether someone likes or dislikes another member. Talk about a video, sure, but there is no reason to bring personal opinions about other people to the forum. This happens an awful lot - the "Attitudes" thread, whilst being an honest and thought-out opinion of how people behave should never actually need to happen in a place like this. The forum is here for people to talk about the things they enjoy not to rant about the other people on the forum.
The forums used for self-amusement:
Everyone enjoys making a post about something they find funny, it's natural. However, there comes a point in which the forum (the OT forums especially) start to be used as chat rooms. Now there's nothing wrong with that in theory however this can in practice develop into people posting random nonsense out of boredom. OK, that's harmless enough too... but this kind of forum use also invites trolling as a forum pastime.
Forum trolling is in many ways similar to personal attacks but it comes in the form of posting deliberately nonsense messages in order to create havoc. This sort of forum use is sometimes cleaned up by moderators but cannot really be controlled all that easily.
It's usually when someone goes totally nuts in terms of havoc posting when action is taken.
Similarly trolling can be in milder forms, such as posting EVA SUCKS in any thread discussing evangelion (or any other example of thread distraction). What can you do about that, when it's someone's opinion? Lots of things are opinions but that doesn't mean they are appropriate in that place.
I think what I'm trying to depict with this post is a distinction between two ideas of what the forum is:
1) A forum that is there for the benefit of the community as a whole
or
2) A forum that is there for the benefit of the a-m-v.org members individually and to be used as they individually desire.
It is number 2 that concerns me. It's all very well making a thread about how such-and-such a person is elitist/bootlegger/etc... but it does nothing for the community except cause people to take sides and thing badly of other creators, sometimes without ever meeting them. It's all very well posting porn or warez or anything else you might be interested in but it does little for (and in some cases can threaten) the community. It's all very well having fun posting nonsense and insulting/irritating other members because there's nothing better to do but it only causes animosity which leads to people not actually wanting to take part in the forum community.
The method of moderating the forum so far has presumed number 2 as well. There has been very much a philosophy of "let people do what they like but limit/moderate users who take advantage of their freedom to post."
However, I don't think this approach is really working. Whilst the site rules are good they do not stop milder forms of flaming and trolling on the forum - there's only so much you can moderate and a lot will pass under the radar.
What was created as a forum to benefit the community has turned into a forum that wants to benefit the individual members... and to be honest it's far too easy for a member who is in no way interested in the community to sign up and cause trouble. In my opinion, at least.
So, what to do?
Well, I'm not sure... it's tricky. I think that you can have all the rules you like but people are just going to get annoyed at exceptions being made and some things being allowed and others not... Also, not everyone cares for rules and many new members don't read them.
I think if the forum is to benefit the community then perhaps it could be focused at just AMVs and the enjoyment of them.
This would unfortunately mean getting rid of the Off Topic forums entirely and possibly even removing General Anime and Music but extending the AMV Suggestions forum to a general AMV idea thinking pot that can also include music and anime discussions but with an amv focus.
It sounds incredibly harsh, I know, but I think it would really help produce a more stable and hopefully more creative online amv community as people won't be disuaded from the forums by trolling and laming.
I used to like the OT forums - they used to contain interesting discussions and funny random internet stuff. Nowadays, they can be fun but the inevitably get talked away form the topic by members who chat on the forums. It's not a bad thing in small doses and I'm not pointing any fingers because really it's just an effect that comes about with there being a lot more people on the forums these days that topics become off-topic fast.
In short, I like the amv forums and I like the things they give to the community but I'd hate them to transform into a place where only trolls and egomaniacs can come to post nonsense and flame people. This place is for talking about how much we like amvs, what cool ones we are making, organising new amvs and meeting up. I'd like to see the forum be all about that stuff again.
The amv commnuity is on the whole a really good one - the offline interactions of the community members really make it all worthwhile. There's nothing stopping the online community having the same thing.... or at least in my opinion, but maybe I'm just being too purist, idealistic and naive. Ah well, there's my thoughts.
- Lyrs
- Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:41 pm
- Location: Internet Donation: 5814 Posts
I reckon you took a lot of time working on that.
Anyway, the system right now seems to be working quite fine. The MODs obviously are not reactionary or radical and they perform well, even though some people might disagree. From what I've seen of their work so far, they've done better than i ever did in my one chance as a MOD in a little forum on teh other side of cyberspace.
Phade is providing the right guidelines and doing what needs to be done, even though it may be unpopular to many people.
/end
Anyway, the system right now seems to be working quite fine. The MODs obviously are not reactionary or radical and they perform well, even though some people might disagree. From what I've seen of their work so far, they've done better than i ever did in my one chance as a MOD in a little forum on teh other side of cyberspace.
Phade is providing the right guidelines and doing what needs to be done, even though it may be unpopular to many people.
/end
- CaTaClYsM
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:54 am
I have a better idea. Simply enforce the rules without bias as they are being broken. I have been in (and didn't start one mind you) 5 flame wars and the mods only locked off one after about 5 pages. Thye just sat there and let Jace try and antagonize me as much as possible, then SpPanda gets insulted and they ban him on sight while the insulter walks away scot free, oh and then there is OmniStrata's open use of downloaded footage, which is another big no no which has gone unpunished (I defend the use of downloaded footage but if it's a rule then it's a rule.) And then there is the whole concept of spamming, it is meant for Way off topic, and as long as it stays there it isn't harming anyone. Hell half of the way off topic posters are people that don't make AMVs and stick strictly to those specific forums, meanwhile half of the people that use the General AMV forum stay where they are and never stray elsewhere.
But basicaly I think the obards are fine the way they are and the rules are fine. The problem is the people moderating them. (this goes for fade too, don't think I havent forgotenn about how he left ermacs penis in a post just to let people know that there will never be an edit button.) If they would enforce the rules correctly, then there would be no flame wars, no trolling, and everything would be perfect.
But basicaly I think the obards are fine the way they are and the rules are fine. The problem is the people moderating them. (this goes for fade too, don't think I havent forgotenn about how he left ermacs penis in a post just to let people know that there will never be an edit button.) If they would enforce the rules correctly, then there would be no flame wars, no trolling, and everything would be perfect.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 pm
Re: What the AMV forum is all about?
Agreed, I find myself posting less and less in the OT forums merely because rarely is anything interesting or relevant to my tastes being discussed (and this is coming from me, some one who spamsAbsoluteDestiny wrote:I think if the forum is to benefit the community then perhaps it could be focused at just AMVs and the enjoyment of them.
This would unfortunately mean getting rid of the Off Topic forums entirely and possibly even removing General Anime and Music but extending the AMV Suggestions forum to a general AMV idea thinking pot that can also include music and anime discussions but with an amv focus.
It sounds incredibly harsh, I know, but I think it would really help produce a more stable and hopefully more creative online amv community as people won't be disuaded from the forums by trolling and laming.
I used to like the OT forums - they used to contain interesting discussions and funny random internet stuff. Nowadays, they can be fun but the inevitably get talked away form the topic by members who chat on the forums. It's not a bad thing in small doses and I'm not pointing any fingers because really it's just an effect that comes about with there being a lot more people on the forums these days that topics become off-topic fast.

Though, I don't know if eliminating the OT forums would solve poblems or would eliminate a unique element that helps make this forum and enjoyable place to visit.
- CaTaClYsM
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:54 am
ooo shoot.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
- AbsoluteDestiny
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:56 pm
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
- CaTaClYsM
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:54 am
I'm just here in my part time and I can stil somehow read every post anyone makes. if I have no atatchment to this forum (in a responsibiloity sort of way.) then I think the mods should at least be on as often as I am. and btw AD, no debating.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
- fyrtenheimer
- Joined: Sun May 05, 2002 11:34 am
Well, I guess CaT is right.
As many MODS as there are, if there is many and that's what I'm guessing, it's actually weird how they do modl ..whatever.
Umm ... I dont know. Maybe it's an obvious overlook, but simple avatars or sig changes, those even take a while to fix, the kb size of avatars that some ppl were complaining about =\
I know I don't even attempt to read everyone's post, and since an argument some few days ago I've just decided to limit how many times I post, finding it rather easy btw. But on such occasions as The World's Longest Thread, you'd come back and see pages of posts that have been made.
As many MODS as there are, if there is many and that's what I'm guessing, it's actually weird how they do modl ..whatever.
Umm ... I dont know. Maybe it's an obvious overlook, but simple avatars or sig changes, those even take a while to fix, the kb size of avatars that some ppl were complaining about =\
I know I don't even attempt to read everyone's post, and since an argument some few days ago I've just decided to limit how many times I post, finding it rather easy btw. But on such occasions as The World's Longest Thread, you'd come back and see pages of posts that have been made.
- Flint the Dwarf
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:58 pm
- Location: Ashland, WI
So what you're saying, AD, is that AMVs have lost focus here? I agree with that. But I'm wondering, however, if we could just split the forums and make two separate boards. Granted, one board would go against the purpose of the site and just be there for those members who wish to be ridiculous.
But then... I don't see how that's different from people who want to focus on AMVs just ignoring OT.
Well, that's my opinion.

But then... I don't see how that's different from people who want to focus on AMVs just ignoring OT.

Well, that's my opinion.
Kusoyaro: We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.
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- Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:27 pm
- Location: It's more of a general area than a location
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