Cowboy Bebop vs Noir

[Madzack]

If they want to make Noir interesting, at least show naked Mireille boobies or make two Noir chix kiss. But, noooo, oh noooo, they don't want to sell out or shit.

Noir's gunplay is just weak. And so are characterisations, except for Althena, but that's it. They should've added some more interesting characters or give their targets a bit more personality. Personally, while watching I kept expecting somebody showing up and address formally "Hi, I'm Bob, Acme Insurance" or .

I hope they make a better remake or anime than this. This anime has so much potential, just not quite good enough.




PS: Or I'm saying this because there's no naked Mireille boobies. Frust, frust!

[Digital_Sakura]

I'm not gonna go into detail here since I just got done typing A WHOLE LOT!!!!but I accidently pushed ESC and my WHOLE post disappeared 0_0!!so...I'll just say this....there's no blood in Noir cause that's the originality of the anime,most people should realize this if they've seen the whole series.Well,I take that back though...there's a couple of episodes they actually do show blood,besides the scene where Mireille found her parents and brother,dead.With saying this,even if you are for the bloodthirsty type anime,I still wouldn't suggest you missing out on this great anime title !I myself though haven't seen Cowboy Bebop,so I do not know how good it is yet,but for now,I will say...and most likely will stick to Noir.Cowboy Bebop to me,sounds kinda TOO american,don't ya think?hmmmm...maybe that's just me..but anyways...one quick thing,someone said something about the guys in the suits (which are obviously assossiated with Soldats) just running around and aimlessly shooting at Kirika because they can't shoot...you must've not watched the whole series.Kirika is referred to as the Shinigami (or otherly known as to americans...the Angel of Death) so she couldn't be killed.Well,I'm not gonna give away any type spoilers,but most of you should know what I'm talking about..the ones that HAVE seen the whole series.It wasn't because the guys didn't know how to shoot..trust me,they did....they were out to KILL..and usually,when someone is out to KILL someone,they know how to shoot.And besides,if those guys are assossiated with Soldats,then they were TRAINED to KILL..so their shooting was probably almost 100% perfect.It was just that Kirika is the Shinigami and she has the skills of an assassin and I don't even know what other god-like (well...goddess-like in her case) skills she has,but I don't know..it's just somethin' to think about ^_^.

Digital_Sakura

[kthulhu]

They could've made a REGULAR series about female assassins (and had the staple noir "revenge" angle), added blood (but not a whole lot), made bad guys who can shoot worth a damn, and made a gritty, interesting Japanese noir-style series. Instead, they build it up to a mystic power struggle. Whoo. Original.

It's chronic mystic shit and background shenanigans that will kill anime.

[skanks]

Yer, I understand the whole thing with Angel of death, I seen the whole series twice now.
And I know the level of training and all that. I was awe inspired until that one scene with Kirika and Cloe kicking the shit out of the suits. (I also imagined doing an amv using Noir and the theme song 'here come the men in black') Theres one can standing 2 meters shooting at them about 3 seconds apart and looking at the guy it doesn’t seem like he's putting much effort into it. Although, I could imagine if they are protected by some higher purpose as the series suggests that would be understanding. IE the scene where that cop is unloading at Kirika and the bullets knick her hair and she is completely unfazed.
I didn't actually mind Cowboy bebop, I just decided to stir shit cause I do actually think Noir is better. Alot better Soundtrack aswell.
The style of fighting aswell, I’m a cammy fan from street fighter, I love seeing a little girl weave all over the place and kick the shit out of someone so Kirika as you can imagine I believe is the shit!!
(I don’t get a hard on from it, its just… its cwel)
Cowboy Bebop you did put it correctly, too American, I don’t like cowboys, the idea of someone just running up unloading his gun to everything is dead and bloody just… is boring.

[Digital_Sakura]

I like your point of view Skanks,I just hope that I can get kthulhu to also understand the originality of Noir..and the purpose behind it.The idea of making an anime about "regular" female assassins is just sick...why should there be ANYTHING AT ALL regular in an anime?They wanted to make something different (they,referring to Bee Train and ADV Films).How often have you seen an anime where a schoolgirl went around killing TONS of people?I've only seen 2 anime like that..I don't know about you,but it doesn't happen THAT often ya know?By the way...does adding blood to an anime MAKE it worth watching???I read your post (duh =P) about adding blood to the anime..well...trust me,it was well worth it,even without the blood.Maybe you should try concentrating more along the lines of the storyline of the anime and the animation of it,rather than wanting to see blood just cause someone got shot.Does that disappoint you?If so,then you'll be missing out on a lot of great animes that don't have blood in them ^_^.And when you said,"made bad guys who can shoot worth a damn, and made a gritty, interesting Japanese noir-style series." like I told you before..they WERE able to shoot worth a damn,it was just the "barrier" I guess you could call it that was surrounding Kirika..the Shinigami.Not only that,but look at it from the guys point of view..okay,a girl,looking no later than 18 just killed ALL of the people over there..and there was about 30 of them..now I'M gonna have to shoot at her!Sorry,but I think you'd be a lil too scared to fire your gun correctly at her anyways because of the intimidation she would be giving off.Eh,interesting Japanese Noir-style?was Noir not Japanese enough for you?You make this anime seem as if it's a reeeeeally disappointing one..when,it's not.Maybe you just didn't grasp most of the interesting concepts of this wonderful anime,then you turned it into something you didn't like..so you created your own thoughts about a Noir..maybe an american version?Sorry,but your hopes were up too high and your expectations were too much.Noir is probably as Japanese as it could get..which also makes it well worth watching.Well,to me anyways.

Digital_Sakura

P.S. One more thing...when you said,"It's chronic mystic shit and background shenanigans that will kill anime" have you ever thought about anime being different,or do you think it's just the same as any other show you watch?If it didn't give off some type of mystical karma,then there wouldn't be anything interesting in it,would there?So it may not be the mystical "shit" as you call it that will kill anime,but it may be your americanized thoughts of what anime SHOULD be.Let's just hope your dream doesn't come true,eh?

[kthulhu]

I like your point of view Skanks,I just hope that I can get kthulhu to also understand the originality of Noir..and the purpose behind it.

What purpose? What originality? Child assassins? "Kite" did it.

The idea of making an anime about "regular" female assassins is just sick...why should there be ANYTHING AT ALL regular in an anime?

And why should it always be different? Because it's from Japan? And just because something is different does not make it good.

They wanted to make something different (they,referring to Bee Train and ADV Films).How often have you seen an anime where a schoolgirl went around killing TONS of people?

Not very often, I would say. But it is still a dumb idea ("She's linked to this mystic group and the adult character's past, see, and she's an assassin, also! And also the physical embodiment of mystic death figure! And a mysterious, emotionally dead killing machine!")

I've only seen 2 anime like that..I don't know about you,but it doesn't happen THAT often ya know?By the way...does adding blood to an anime MAKE it worth watching???I read your post (duh =P) about adding blood to the anime..well...trust me,it was well worth it,even without the blood.

Look, I think excessive blood is stupid. But no blood is just as stupid. Excuse me, if you've just pumped several high velocity lead projectiles into someone, they'd better bleed. It's just not realistic. It makes an adult series seem almost childish.

Maybe you should try concentrating more along the lines of the storyline of the anime and the animation of it,rather than wanting to see blood just cause someone got shot.Does that disappoint you?If so,then you'll be missing out on a lot of great animes that don't have blood in them ^_^.

I DO concentrate on storyline, and I am not a fan of excessive blood (or blood, in general). I thought Noir's concept was mildly interesting, but lousy all around. And like I noted above, the lack of blood makes the series seem childish. If they're trying to make it deep and dark, keep it more realistic, AND HAVE SOME FUCKING BLOOD.

I don't look for blood. The bloodiest anime I can recall watching was Evangelion, and maybe Perfect Blue, and I didn't watch those for the gore.

And when you said,"made bad guys who can shoot worth a damn, and made a gritty, interesting Japanese noir-style series." like I told you before..they WERE able to shoot worth a damn,it was just the "barrier" I guess you could call it that was surrounding Kirika..the Shinigami.

Sounds pretty stupid. Indestructible killing machine girl. And were supposed to connect with the main characters how? "They're indestructible and on a quest. I worry or care about the characters why again?" Sounds like you're the one who's big on the violence part.

Not only that,but look at it from the guys point of view..okay,a girl,looking no later than 18 just killed ALL of the people over there..and there was about 30 of them..now I'M gonna have to shoot at her!Sorry,but I think you'd be a lil too scared to fire your gun correctly at her anyways because of the intimidation she would be giving off.

Irrelevant. Like I said, if the characters aren't in any real danger, we care about them or their story...how?

Eh,interesting Japanese Noir-style?was Noir not Japanese enough for you?You make this anime seem as if it's a reeeeeally disappointing one..when,it's not.

Considering it was set in France and trying to copy Western film noir (not improvise or put a more Eastern spin on it), then yes, I'd say it's not Japanese enough, although I don't base anime liking on how Japanese it is. As for making Noir out to be disappointing - well, duh. It's dull. It's set in a mundane, European locale. We have no reason to worry or care about the characters, because they're powerful and can't really get hurt, there is no blood despite the series being pushed as a mature series, and the whole secret Soldats society thing, with its mystic shit, is just stupid and ruins whatever good the series had. The only upside to the series is the soundtrack.

Maybe you just didn't grasp most of the interesting concepts of this wonderful anime,then you turned it into something you didn't like..so you created your own thoughts about a Noir..maybe an american version?

What interesting concepts? An 18 year old girl controlling or being a figure of death? Whoo, never seen that - it's just most mecha series. I found the concept execution stupid. Going from a mildly plausible story to metaphysical bullshit is not clever most of the time.

And if Noir was American, I'd still think it was shit.

Sorry,but your hopes were up too high and your expectations were too much.

Apparently. So I guess this makes Noir a "bleh" series, then?

Noir is probably as Japanese as it could get..which also makes it well worth watching.Well,to me anyways.

Please expand on this further. Is anime worth watching only because it's Japanese?

P.S. One more thing...when you said,"It's chronic mystic shit and background shenanigans that will kill anime" have you ever thought about anime being different,or do you think it's just the same as any other show you watch?

Do you watch anime only because it's different? I find it somewhat the same as American entertainment, but with a (naturally, of course) Japanese perspective and flavor. A show doesn't need "deep ideas" to be good - being "deep" can kill a show, and it kind of did with Noir. Look at "Azumanga Daioh", "Irresponsible Captain Tylor", and "Tsukikage Ran", for instance - all highly entertaining without an assload of annoying philosophy.

If it didn't give off some type of mystical karma,then there wouldn't be anything interesting in it,would there?

Mystical ideas, is what I think you mean to say. And mystical ideas are only interesting if you find them to be that way. I don't. A lot of people don't. A lot of people do. A lot of people do just because it makes them seem more "well-rounded and deep". If every anime had a Soldats section to its plot, would it still be interesting?

So it may not be the mystical "shit" as you call it that will kill anime,but it may be your americanized thoughts of what anime SHOULD be.Let's just hope your dream doesn't come true,eh?

Once again, if every (or most) new series implements mystical shit and dull philosophy, would anime still be interesting to watch?

[Koopiskeva]

mmmm... post dissecting.. fun fun..

lets just settle this...

big wars > noir and cowboy bebop

done and done.

[FirestormXIII]

I didn't actually mind Cowboy bebop, I just decided to stir shit cause I do actually think Noir is better. Alot better Soundtrack aswell.

Oh. My. God.




That was quite possibly the most bass-ackward thing I've heard all week. I've seen both Cowboy Bebop and Noir (in fact I purchased them both the same day) and I like them both quite a bit. But to compare Noir's soundtrack to Bebop's, and place it above it is ludicrious. Noir's soundtrack is above average, not bad in it's own right, and I do enjoy it. But the Cowboy Bebop soundtrack created a new standard for music in anime, and what music means in anime.

Noir really isn't close to creating a new standard such as that, at least where music is concerned.

[Digital_Sakura]

ah,I hope this isn't getting into an arguement -_-,I hope not.Well,anyways...to base my points once again.No,I do not watch anime just because it is Japanese,it's just a preferance I have.I also am not looking for the violence in anime..it can be helpful at times when needed,but I'm not looking for a bloodbath ya know?About it not being realistic when someone gets lead pumped into them...does anime neccissarily HAVE to be realistic ALL of the time?No.Cartoons are this way as well...of course,there's no simularity between anime and cartoons,but...that's a whole nother story =P.Anyways,all I'm tryin' to say is that anime doesn't HAVE to be realistic ALL the time ya know..there's gotta be a cooling part in some anime series'.Like if you just got done watching Akira or Perfect Blue,then went and watched .hack//sign,then you'd be pretty cooled off from seeing all that previous blood,it would be washed away by the great anime you would be watching the DIDN'T have blood in it.You see where I'm comin' from?I know about the whole thing of Noir being created from a film and about the whole Europe thing...cause Noir means "Dark" or "Black" in French..I don't remember which one,but still...I would obviously refer to Noir as a Japanese style anime.I mean,hell...just because .hack//sign takes place in Japan,doesn't neccissarily mean it's a Japanese anime,but it is using some kind of logic you know.So basically,just cause Noir mainly takes place in France and so forth,it wouldn't be considered a French anime.Well,onto a different subject.What makes the anime Noir so disturbing to you?I'm just curious...cause I mean,me..personally..I liked it cause it had a good plot.Everything seemed to fit into place..along with the great soundtrack ^_^!The fact that the "machine girl" as you called her,couldn't get killed was a really different plot from what I've been used to.I mean,I've seen Kite the Motion Picture,but that's about the only other one that has that kind of thing goin' for it.Ah,maybe you still haven't understood WHY she can't be killed?It doesn't take the fun out of the anime just because one of the main characters can't die..it actually spices things up a bit because of the reasoning behind her survival.Now if they just let her live and not die,without a reasoning behind it,then yeah...I could see how the anime would probably suck.But they give you a reasoning behind her existance and everything else you need to know,so the only thing you need to do is watch the anime.The only thing that wasn't answered for me at the end was what the main plot of Soldats was and WHO exactly were they?Hmmmm....it explains roughly in the series,but I don't know,maybe they'll come out with another series of Noir...but I seriously doubt it.Referring to different anime now..no,I don't just watch some anime because it's different.Maybe our definitions of anime being different are..well...DIFFERENT ^_^.Okay,it's like today...I was watching the previews of the upcoming anime by ADV Films called,"Colorful!" and it looked so insanely funny and crazy and sooooo much ecchi humor and fanservice was flying in every which direction,so I was like,"AHHHHH!!that's crazy!I must watch it!!".Now,with your typical Noir,or Cowboy Bebop,or hell...even Escaflowne for that matter...you compare them to Colorful!.Sorry,but Colorful! is waaaaaaay different than any of the animes I just mentioned,and that's what I like about it..I'm looking for something different in an anime,not just the same old,"Some main character looks for the main bad guy and goes to kill them" type plot ya know.I'm looking for something different in every other anime,or else...I wouldn't watch it =P.So,I don't know if it's just me,but I like switching through different types of animes...like just recently,I got done watching the last episode of .hack//sign,and today I began watch Great Teacher Onizuka (GTO).These are TOTALLY different animes,so this was a dramatic change for me!It went from "talk a pretty good bit and hardly any action,but some drama" to "Insanely funny ecchi humor!".I mean,that's what I'm talkin' about by different..but if I came across you the wrong way with this the first time,then sorry.I was just trying to say basically that,"Noir is different from other anime,cause even DBZ shows blood,but it's just part of the series to.In Noir,it's part of the series not to,because that's the ORIGINALITY of the series.".And sorry to say,but some people actually DO care about what happens to the character in the anime.I mean,hell,when I get into the anime that I'm watching at the time,I could get into it and start caring for the person as if I was there or something close to it.Some anime that I've seen has made me sentimental at times...like episode 19 of .hack//sign.The last part of the episode kind of made me wish I was Tsukasa cause Subaru felt lonely.But maybe I just like anime TOO much....I don't see a problem with my outlook on anime though =D.Well,as I said before..I hope this isn't an arguement,cause it might take a while,lol.Well,I shall be going to bed now,so I'll check back up on the posts here tomorrow when I get back from school,so...till then

bai bai!

Digital_Sakura

[Digital_Sakura]

one more thing...I just read your post FirestormXIII and I must say this....YOU said quite possibly the most bass-ackward thing I've heard all week.Have you even listened to ALL of the songs from Noir?well?have you?You compare the vocals and even the non-vocals,such as Le Grand Retour and you tell me that isn't better than Cowboy Bebop's jazz or some of their seldom vocal tracks?tch...you might wanna go back and do your homework =P.And besides...Noir had MORE songs (well..and soundtracks,duh) than Cowboy Bebop had.Also..as far as I'm concerned...I don't think Cowboy Bebop's timing the anime was as good as the timing of Salva Nos to an "action scene" if ya wanna call it that,in Noir.Well,anyways...that's all I wanted to say,so Cante Per Me!hehehe

Digital_Sakura

Gomen nesai! (did I spell that correctly??)