Simplicity vs. Frills: What makes good editing?

[Paul Kievits]

Who needs lyric synch when you've got a solid concept?

*Bang* Jbone hit the nail on the head. What are effects and timing? Honestly, who gives a fuck? Sure they add to your general enjoyment of the video but if you don't have a concept your video just ends up being meaningless middle-of-the-road crap. The good videos, and I mean the really great ones all stand out. Is it because of heaps of special effects or great timing? No. They stand out because they come up with great innovative scenes that make you not only look at something in a different way then usual not like "oh it's this anime and he used this scene" but like something that's totally new and original. Concept comes first all other things are important but not critical.

Just my $0.02

[OmniStrata]

Symbolism, sex, passion, drama, timing...

[oh wait]

this is amvs, not movies... ^_^

Well, some would say "special fx" and the frills and such...
My vote is in the effects and complexity.

Does that make me "simple". [lemming ^_^]

FALSE! As an editor, I feel learning effects is important [just an opinion]

However, I'd like to mention that simple editing [fades at most] can make spectacular results for a video.
[TaranT's Sakura comes to mind. I HIGHLY suggest grabbing it]

I'm for good effects. [well timed, on the beat, tough to duplicate effects]
NOT canned effects [drag and drop stupidity. However, well timed keyframed drag and drop effects aren't bad...]

So, I'm leaning [in my videos] to effects, but in terms of "all" anime videos, you need BOTH...

What good is a recipe when you have only 1/2 the ingredients? You need timing, some synch or symbolism of some sort, GOOD effects [or none at all, NOT bad effects], a concept, and to "fake" it, SEVERAL cuts within the entire song itself. "Needle in my Hand" comes to mind. I'm unsure of its concept but in terms of action timing to the beat, it's DAMN good.

[Nightowl]

Effects have nothing to do with editing. In the end, an effect placed on a frame is just another piece of footage to cut. When one makes a video, there will be editing, regardless; this does not guarantee effects. The only reason one should use effects is to enhance the concept at hand, simple as that. If effects aren't necessary to get your point across, why bother?

-N

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Effects have nothing to do with editing. In the end, an effect placed on a frame is just another piece of footage to cut. When one makes a video, there will be editing, regardless; this does not guarantee effects. The only reason one should use effects is to enhance the concept at hand, simple as that. If effects aren't necessary to get your point across, why bother?

-N

Quite right!

As with timming, there must be some sort of timming in a video but special effects are optional. Hence the point of this thread of comparing the two comes back to ErMaC's statement that is really is pointless to ask which is better since one is a requirement the other isn't..

Vlad

[Flint the Dwarf]

Yeah out of timing and special effects, I'd have to say... concept. It really is the primary factor, and those two, timing and special effects, should be used to complement it. Not to create it. Concept is tough enough to deal with as it is.

But, to ignore other factors... I'd say timing. Pace and rhythm for a video is more important, I believe, than how it looks on the surface. Even if the effects are done very well and have no flaws, timing is what makes the video. Besides concept.

That's my opinion at least. Which is... alll mine!

[ayanami_soul]

8) a bit of column "A" and a bit of column "B"
effects are fun when used appropriately....certain themes don't need all out effects..ever seen a romantic amv that went all out on effects? not too many get away with it...BASICALLY IN MY OPINION...PPL ARE JUST GONNA SAY ONE OR THE OTHER BASED ON ABILITY AND PAST EXPERIENCE....
8) "WHAT'S YOUR FLAVA, TELL ME WHAT'S YOUR FLAVA"(OHHH!!!)

[TaranT]

What makes better editing in your opinion? Good timing or use of special effects?

(1) Can you make a good AMV without any special effects?. Answer: yes, it's been done many times.

(2) Can you make a good AMV without good timing? Probably not. At least I've never seen one. But there are borderline (composite?) projects like "Failed Experiments" which might be the exception to the rule.

To pursue this any deeper, I think you're going to need clear definitions of "special effects" and "good timing". There are differing opinions of both.

[AbsoluteDestiny]

But there are borderline (composite?) projects like "Failed Experiments" which might be the exception to the rule.

Failed Exp has good timing.

Render!!

[TaranT]

But there are borderline (composite?) projects like "Failed Experiments" which might be the exception to the rule.

Failed Exp has good timing.

Render!!

Definitely...but in sections, not as a whole...which is what I meant by the "composite". (Although, again, it depends on what "good timing" means: simply hitting beats with scene changes, or flowing (?) with the overall rhythm of the music?).

Maybe FE is not the best example. There is at least theoretically the project which might not even be a true music video...something which is heavily story-driven, a skit, a wordy parody...something where music is inserted in bits and pieces...where timing is not important or expected.

Whatever, this sort of gets away from my main point, which is that timing is necessary, but effects are not.

BTW, EK's "Render!!" scene is always fun, but a little ambiguous to those of us who don't use Premiere.

(Geez, it's 2:30AM. I'm outta here.......)

[Kai Stromler]

My obligatory $0.02, though this topic has been pretty well explored, and there's probably nothing new here.

EDIT IS LAW. If you do not a) select good footage and b) arrange it competently, there is no amount of special effects in the world that can save your video. Nightowl has it right a little further up; any effect applied is just a transform or series of transforms applied to the frames of your video. It affects the footage, but does not replace it. You can't use effects to turn Goldfish Warning or The Ultimate Teacher into Ghost In The Shell.

Two semirelated tangents:
1) Didn't we have this conversation before in like August or September? I seem to remember such. Or is this a quarterly-recurring sort of question that I don't recognize correctly because I haven't been around the forums long enough?
2) Way back early in my career when I was so hardcore anti-effects that I wouldn't use crossfades I defined a type of 'perfect' AMV as one that put a single cut with a single song, and required no editing to work well; perfection in concept and song/video selection to the degree that no editing is required. The opposite of this would be the 'perfect' video where it merely *looks* as though this is the case to the observer foreign to the anime: perfect transparency on the editor's part through ultimate skill, as well as genius of concept. And I ask: has either of these been achieved? Would such a video under either caption be interesting as more than a curiosity?

Do normal people even think about stuff like this?

--K