Can action have any originality?

[BasharOfTheAges]

That adrenaline rush, by in large, is your reaction to the precise beat sync. It's like a conditioned response. In the same manner, most of our reaction from horror movies is derived from the building tension in the music used. Hard cuts to sharp, percussive tones invokes the, almost primal, idea of action (assuming the right amount of them... too many and you're doing some sort of dance video).

EDIT - Anything that isn't focused on that intense connection between musical events and on-screen events (actions) is Drama. Violence alone != Action. Fighting alone != Action. It's how you edit, not the content. To directly address godix's question, I think we have taken original ideas in action and crafted new categories for them. Dance, Upbeat, etc. are derived from the beat-sync aspect that defines action. Question to you... given that, is still action? It was when it came out, but i'd say it's more in league with the growing category of 'upbeat.' Again, it all goes back to how narrow you want to dial back the scope.

Ultimately the VCAs here and conventions drive the labeling. There are only so many trophies that are going to get made. If the concept of original is somehow incompatible with beat-sync being a primary focus, then no, you're never going to get original action videos. Such a restriction kinda seems foolish and arbitrary though.

[8bit_samurai]

I've always thought of action to be physical drama, though instead of emotions being tossed around, it's fists and bullets and explosions and the such. In that sense, I suppose action alone is unable to have any originality, unless the fist fights, gun fights, and explosions and the sort are original in themselves. The only way I could think of having an original action video would be to mix other genres with action, i.e. action/drama, action/romance, etc. etc. so that there's a(n original) story to the video. So if there's an action video that can tell a story that hasn't been done before, I suppose it can be original. But taking the genre into consideration, most of the stories behind action (in general) is pretty simple and would most likely fall under the theme of revenge, fighting for someone else, female troubles, etc. etc. which may not be original in a broader sense if the details aren't taken into account. However, I would assume most action fans (in general) just want to be visually and audibly pleased and don't really care much for originality.

[Phantasmagoriat]

Anything that isn't focused on that intense connection between musical events and on-screen events (actions) is Drama

Hopefully I don't jump to conclusions here, but to modify this quote:

"Anything that is focused on that intense connection between musical events and on-screen events is Action"

If that's what you are saying, I find that a really interesting way to look at it because it makes the term Action become much broader, and really does reflect the way people conventionally categorize Action videos.

However for me, I typically find the difference between Action and Drama is presence of Physical Conflict, vs Emotional Conflict, (similar to what 8bit said above), which may or may not have intense musical connections. However, conventionally, I think people disregard the conflict and just focus on the rush generated, meaning action has been dwindled down to anything that is fast, high-motion, and has lot's of sync. People have figured out that appealing to our primal senses of sight and sound is the easiest way to tap into a physical response (ie. an adrenaline rush). Of course, viewers still need to be willing to succumb to it. There is a big difference between action videos that generate that adrenaline rush externally through the senses; vs action videos that generate the rush internally through the perception of exciting scenarios.

is Hold me now still action?

IMO while is has some aspects of Classic Action (the sword fight), it would fit the [distorted] conventional definition of Action due to it's sync/motion-- but like you said, the emerging word Upbeat would be very appropriate, and I'm saying that's exactly why we shouldn't lump videos under umbrella terms like Action. That being said, the damage has already been done, and that video will probably always be called an action video. All I can do now, is invent new terms like I did above to distinguish it from other forms of Action. (Music has Classic Rock; AMVs can have Classic Action... and I can confidently say Hold me Now is not Classic Action)

A couple years ago, I predicted new terms would come out for the growing genres of AMVs, just like the music scene, and it's already happening. I wasn't around when Dance/Upbeat came about... but check out some of the AMVs tagged as Psychedelic on Akross which clearly don't fall into any of the typical genres [like stuff from Shepherd]. But the org is still on par with Akross in terms of creating new genres: we have Awesomecore. The question now is who's going to break for one-upmanship. okay, terrible Cold War comparison

Also:

I'm actually doing a genre chart for a con panel now instead of eating... fuck this conversation.

I should probably resurrect this before you do too much work:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/v ... oncept+map
(specifically the branch on AMV Characteristics/Traits... although that's far from complete and probably riddled with inaccuracies)

[8bit_samurai]

So I'm curious, what's the last original action video you guys have seen?

To answer this part, here are some I thought to be quite different from the usual action AMV


It's a crossover video, so I suppose it's not as original, given most crossovers I can think of falls under action (Castor's vids and Tainted Donuts come to mind), but I thought it was pretty neat.


Considering the mood of most action videos tend to be serious, one with comedic undertones is actually quite refreshing, if not original.


Another video with some comedic undertones (or possibly a comedy vid with action undertones)


Given the pace of most action videos, this one doesn't seem to be in a rush. Though I suppose the problem with this (and possibly the other vids) would be whether if they're action vids with comedy/parody undertones or if they're comedy/parody vids with action undertones. Either case, I thought they were quite original. I could probably look for more, but that would require to sort through my AMV folder, which I don't really feel like doing right now.

[EvaFan]

Hell yeah it can.

It's by no means an amazing AMV in terms of FX, but its original / more than just beat sync. Probably why its still my most favorite action AMV to this date. Seems like these days ppl just rely on fast paced music/beat sync/eyecandy to try and give off an adrenaline rush without utilizing lyrics as well as they could or taking them way to literally. It's fun to do that once and a while though, not everything has to be original and the amvs can be really enjoyable even when they aren't.

[BasharOfTheAges]

I'm actually doing a genre chart for a con panel now instead of eating... fuck this conversation.

I should probably resurrect this before you do too much work:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/v ... oncept+map
(specifically the branch on AMV Characteristics/Traits... although that's far from complete and probably riddled with inaccuracies)

I was going for something far more silly. The pizza got to me before I did much of anything to it. It's main purpose is to define and differentiate contest categories as part of a focus on the viewer for an AMV 101 panel. That contest (Anime Boston's) uses the VCA definitions of categories and has slightly expanded from there. Their definition of Action... they learned it from us.



Dotted lines are secondary pathways. i.e. You can make an action video (defined by the editing style) scary and get horror, but most horror is suspense-y pans and fades with bursts of scary.

The reason Action, Drama, and Comedy are at the top is because I believe them to be the true top genres from which other genres are formed. I've also been playing the Android game Alchemy an awful lot and the idea of adding stuff in to create other stuff is appealing to me from a teaching point of view.

[Beowulf]

This whole thread asks the wrong question. Originality isn't a pre-requisite for a good action video. Good editing is.

Is Fluxmeister's Eternal Damnation an "original video"? Nope. Its amazing though.

Beat synch is one of the fundamental building blocks of music video editing, so in itself, its not "original". However, fast-paced beat synch, with the right song, flow, effects, style, can be original.

My own Hail to the Thief is just an action video with Evangelion. That itself is not original at all. However I'd like to think the mood it has, the style, and certain editing tricks it uses were original at the time.

[godix]

Same reasoning states that Romance is nothing more than a certain focus slant on Drama... Now, the more I think about this the more the meta-discussion of genre seems a far more important topic to cover.

The only thing your chart seems to miss are the 'other' videos, which are mostly editing with very weird audio or heavily looped sync vids. Well, there are trailers missing also. But those have always been kinda the red headed step child of AMVs.

EDIT - Anything that isn't focused on that intense connection between musical events and on-screen events (actions) is Drama. Violence alone != Action. Fighting alone != Action. It's how you edit, not the content.

So your belief is, basically, that action is nothing more than beat sync and if someone figured out a way to do 'action' without beat sync, it'd no longer be action by definition (or, perhaps, very very bad action)? Would you consider action? It's build entirely of beat sync after all.

I've always thought of action to be physical drama, though instead of emotions being tossed around, it's fists and bullets and explosions and the such.

That's actually pretty close to how I define action. However, there is nothing about 'physical drama' that requires heavy beat sync. Although this topic popped up because I was trying to think of a way to focus on the physical like an action vid without doing beat sync and came up with nothing.

This whole thread asks the wrong question. Originality isn't a pre-requisite for a good action video. Good editing is.

The thing is, I'm not asking for what is good action. I generally don't like the genre, but I recognize there are many very good videos in it that have no spark of originality at all. Good action is an entirely different topic. I'm just curious what could make an original action, and if doing so would take it out of the action genre by definition.

A few comments on specific videos mentioned, note that I actually like some of these vids so don't interpret these comments as harsh I hate them things. Although some I do indeed hate:
Whisper of the Beast is a cross between action and emo drama. Linkin park emo vids have been around long before it, so really it's just a well known example of a trend long established before it.

This Isn't What We Meant is not action. It takes more than an action sequence to be an action video. Look at it this way, Good Will Hunting had a bar fight in it IIRC, does that make it an action movie? It's a good vid, but I agree with VicBond's classification of it as a drama.

I never really considered Hold Me Now an action, although I can see why some would. If it is viewed as an action, it is a pretty unique one

Final Bleach Fantasy is far more parody than action, and the action bits were very much the typical action editing style.

Real Soviet Damage probably comes closest to what I was wondering about. It is very much an action video, but it maintains a much different feel than most action vids. Although I can't decide if it's originality is just that it's an action that doesn't want to make you slit your wrists or the unusual song/visual style or what.

Project Bonklers is a parody of action. It is very much a typical action video in editing style. That's the entire point of the video. Similarly, Welcome to Neo Tokyo is intentionally done as an action to a wildly inappropriate song. I can see why that could be considered somewhat original, but in my opinion true originality is something that goes in a totally different and unpredictable direction. Just mismatching sources isn't really unpredictable.

Be an Outlaw! is very much an action vid. Old school, but still, very stereotypically action. What's original about it?

[MycathatesyouAMV]

Naruto's Technique Beat is prolly the closest thing I can think of as to what I see youre trying to get at. Not really sure if you mean just the originality in the action editing itself, or if the story line if there is one, or concept is included etc.

[BasharOfTheAges]

Same reasoning states that Romance is nothing more than a certain focus slant on Drama... Now, the more I think about this the more the meta-discussion of genre seems a far more important topic to cover.

The only thing your chart seems to miss are the 'other' videos, which are mostly editing with very weird audio or heavily looped sync vids. Well, there are trailers missing also. But those have always been kinda the red headed step child of AMVs.

EDIT - Anything that isn't focused on that intense connection between musical events and on-screen events (actions) is Drama. Violence alone != Action. Fighting alone != Action. It's how you edit, not the content.

So your belief is, basically, that action is nothing more than beat sync and if someone figured out a way to do 'action' without beat sync, it'd no longer be action by definition (or, perhaps, very very bad action)? Would you consider action? It's build entirely of beat sync after all.

Traditionally, yea. Action was a category that was inherently different from Drama. At the most basic level, Drama uses longer clips, fades, and relies on what's happening in the frames more. whereas Action uses hard cuts, relies heavily on beat synch and that presentation between the frames (i.e. the editing itself holds weight or value that the audience directly focuses on). If you take that concept of editing with the cuts you make and you start adding in non-violent sources you get stuff that's either upbeat (there are lots of sugary pop videos that fit into this) dance videos (kinda the same thing... except usually with the focus entirely on dance music and the action on screen being dancing) or effects-heavy vids which can be in any category really. Your example of Anthem isn't exactly using hard beats for most of the time. It has an ambiance to it that really fits with Drama, but the content seems to stem more from taking an effects based video, keeping the effects, and reducing the Action in it. It seems to have distilled into an 'Other' that a lot of videos with that kinda of audio have gone into. I don't think we have a common category for it aside from 'experimental' - but that just doesn't seem right because this type of thing is more common to see than that.