What happened to fun?

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Kai Stromler
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by Kai Stromler » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:20 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:The idea that once you get better at something, or that you have been doing something for a long time means you aren't allowed to have fun anymore seems faulty to me. You should be able to have fun alongside challenging work. Who says DiVinci didn't have fun painting the Mona Lisa? So a drive for quality (whatever that is) does not automatically make things unfun.
This is true, but at least for me, there's a semi-causal relationship, mostly based on time. I wrote up a post on this yesterday but deleted it because, well, screw it. Fortunately I still have the numbers around.

In a sample space of 85 videos that I could establish that the time-to-completion figures were comparable for, 51 got marked as more "fun" than "not fun" to work on, with 34 being the reverse. There was a strong relationship between the average time to completion and whether a video was fun or not:

"fun" videos: 15.55 hours
"not fun" videos: 28.43 hours

There was also a weaker relationship between ratio of the amount of work done before/outside of editing (I cut clips rather than marking in/out on whole episodes/VOBs) to edit time and whether a project was "fun" or not. However, not only is the difference in the averages smaller, the numbers themselves are not completely reliable, because I don't track production time by stage and was going on memory:

"fun" videos: 3.88:1
"not fun" videos: 5.26:1

I also found a weak relationship between editor used and whether a video was "fun" to work on or not. 62% (39/61) of videos in this sample space edited with Dazzle MovieStar or Virtual Dub, which are essentially linear editing environments, came out as "fun". This has dropped to 55% (12/22) after moving to Magix. This is probably a side-effect of time committed -- having a NLE and more control allows you to spend more time getting things exactly right -- and is in any case the smallest difference of the three noted here. Also, I have very low confidence in a sample space of only 22 projects.


How these numbers relate to the original post is this: for most people, the desire to improve their videos results in more time committed, and time is the fun killer. If you want to improve, but still have fun, be a grind and track process time, then before your next project, look back and think about what you could have done to cut down on time committed. My average time to completion is still pretty much where it was in 2001 and 2002, largely because I take active measures to force production time down. If AMV gets too time-onerous, I stop doing it, and get frustrated because ideas are sitting around not getting turned into videos. To keep having fun, you must work hard to avoid working hard.

Maybe this makes sense, maybe not; maybe it's totally useless for people who approach their production in other ways. The numbers remain what they are.

--K
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CodeZTM
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by CodeZTM » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:35 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:
I know I've found myself every so often getting hung up on some small insignificant flaw that I miss the fact that the video is actually really enjoyable. More recently I've been able to shift my mindset so I can simply watch something and enjoy it like I used to despite it's technical flaws. Kitsuner was instrumental in allowing me to do this. so thanks Kit!
Even though I'm not as old around here as some of the dinosaurs, I really suffered from that problem for a year or two and pretty much "quit" editing in 2008 and took a vacation because of it. Because everything I made had a "flaw", and I didn't want to release anything less than perfect. But in 2009, I lightened up after reading some post from somebody saying that this was a fun hobby, and we shouldn't be hung up on every technical detail , and I started editing videos I wanted to make, and not getting hung up on every single detail, but still attempting to make improvements with each video in a subtle way.

So yeah, everybody needs to calm down a tad and just LET IT RIP. :bzz: :bzz:

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Knowname
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by Knowname » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:30 pm

Kai Stromler wrote:I also found a weak relationship between editor used and whether a video was "fun" to work on or not. 62% (39/61) of videos in this sample space edited with Dazzle MovieStar or Virtual Dub, which are essentially linear editing environments, came out as "fun". This has dropped to 55% (12/22) after moving to Magix.
lol I'd expect this to be the other way around! But I can say 1 out of 1 video (my first) that I made in VDub was among the funnest times I had in this hobby ever :) I would further correlate your numbers based on time though as it's a grade of enthusiasm that most likely makes things fun... therefor your analog numbers most probably are somewhat skued... but the fact remains, working on an analog editor is REALLY underrated lol. Given the enthusiasm it's really more fun than it seems. Something I'd NEVER go back to though... but it's fun ^_^

Kai Stromler wrote:How these numbers relate to the original post is this: for most people, the desire to improve their videos results in more time committed, and time is the fun killer. If you want to improve, but still have fun, be a grind and track process time, then before your next project, look back and think about what you could have done to cut down on time committed. My average time to completion is still pretty much where it was in 2001 and 2002, largely because I take active measures to force production time down. If AMV gets too time-onerous, I stop doing it, and get frustrated because ideas are sitting around not getting turned into videos. To keep having fun, you must work hard to avoid working hard.

Maybe this makes sense, maybe not; maybe it's totally useless for people who approach their production in other ways. The numbers remain what they are.

--K
Time being an element destroying fun IN PRODUCTION may be true to many ppl (to some it is not... sometimes you may like to take your time!!) but certainly not true to the high you get in POST production. Who doesn't like to here the audience CHEER for your video?? Even if that's never happened to you you have to imagine (like I do :|) that it'd be SUBLIME. Makes all the time you took TOTALLY worth it!! Also trying to RUSH your work REALLY doesn't work for me (I would rather tone down my effort than figure out how to do the same thing over less time...). I don't know, maybe some like to do that, but I wouldn't think I'd find it enjoyable at all. You can see the videos where it seems I only put 80% effort in just to get it done 80% quicker lol. most of my catalog is made up of that in fact heheheh.
If you do not think so... you will DIE

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Knowname
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by Knowname » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:41 pm

Kai Stromler wrote:To keep having fun, you must work hard to avoid working hard.
This should be quoted though lol as my motto for mediocre videos (though I still love 60-70% of them... my ideas are really good ^_^).
If you do not think so... you will DIE

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Megamom
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by Megamom » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:56 pm

Mmm... I never leave the AMVs for not doing things perfectly... in this world nothing is perfect :| ....all my AMVs have imperfections (eg on my Noise AMV the credits are bad) the imperfections in my AMVs are discovered in the comments of others editors... and the truth I do not care, because is all part of fun, when other editors discover your mistakes is fun ... because you can improve your AMVs!

For me, everything is fun... from the editing process once to the comments... everything is fun! But some new editors take this "hobby" like a bloody business, this is wrong.... enjoyed the AMVs please! :D
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BasharOfTheAges
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by BasharOfTheAges » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:17 pm

Speaking of fun... what con do you guys think will be the first to ban :bzz: ?
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Kitsuner
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by Kitsuner » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:22 pm

Koopiskeva wrote:So basically..

You and Kit have something going on under the table.. :aimkissyface:
We make great instrumental music together... :ying:




That instrument, of course, being the vuvuzela.
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by JaddziaDax » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:45 am

I don't know, I don't think the fun was lost for me, I've just been busy with irl stuff that my social life online has suffered (I also forget to sign in to aim and skype all the time but hardly anyone IMs/calls me anymore anyways.) I just haven't had time like I have in the past to work on anything.

I guess while improving I also found a lot of time savers, so when I do prep-work I don't feel as though I have all this work to trudge through. I do have some ideas that are a little too big for me to contemplate starting (at the moment), but more of my simple ideas always seem to flow easy.

Most of the videos I can categorize as "not fun" were requests from other people, but the videos that I really wanted to do were a blast even if they took me forever to make. :3 I guess though most of my videos never took that long to begin with. Either I just let it flow and see what I come up with, or I already have all the ideas worked out ahead of time so all I have to do is put them together, and fill in the blanks.

I can understand the difference between editing programs, and for me it was less fun when I was on WMM and Ulead. When I got Vegas it opened up a whole world for me. I tried Pinnacle and Premiere after Vegas and those didn't really work out for me. I guess with programs it's all about finding what you are comfortable with.

I don't think that the making part has lost it's fun, but perhaps some of the bits about releasing a video.

It does feel that the org has lost it's funness, and while people may come here for srs bsns or whatever, that's not how the org was for me when I started. The org was a place for me to share the crap I made, and a place where I made friends. I did want to improve but I didn't join the org just so I could get feedback and improve, I joined because I made an amv in the first place. I wanted to contribute. I still want to contribute.

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Kosmit
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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by Kosmit » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:45 am

Megamom wrote:For me, everything is fun... from the editing process once to the comments... everything is fun!
So... uh... why did you want to quit? :uhoh:

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Re: What happened to fun?

Post by Midnightowl999 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:51 am

Why not preserve the fun before it goes away forever. Think about keeping the good ones or any others for another generation to enjoy. We don't live forever and maybe the donations and contributions of amvs would mean something more again. The fun is in knowing if your stuff will be played and enjoyed even if it stinks. They get a good laugh at least. Like Saturday Morning cartoons. Don't let the amv phenomenon disappear as well. Anime may be obsolete in a hundred years. Who knows what the future brings. I sure don't and I am not expert on amvs or people's thoughts and feelings. Was that an intent by the creator, Phade, to catalogue. Isn't cataloguing another form of preserving amv's for future generation or is that gone too. . Amvs equal music and anime. Think about it. Both need to be protected and preserved for future generations. Simply put. Then I had too much sugar in my cereal. Have fun folks!
In attempting to make AMV's, I learned one important lesson. When ya screw up, you can always blame sleep deprivation or laugh madly out loud. It makes you feel better. Trust me it does. :P

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