That's it, I give up...

This forum is for questions and discussion of all the aspects of handling and cleaning up your footage with Avisynth.
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TEKnician
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That's it, I give up...

Post by TEKnician » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:06 pm

What the hell Avisynth is and how do I use it?

Right now, I'm kicking myself because my footage isn't nearly as clean and HD as all these other AMVs I keep watching. It has come to a point where I must swallow my pride and resort to asking noobish questions like this.

I am desperate, please help! :cry:
Almost as hard as fighting a Holy Paladin.

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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by mirkosp » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:36 pm

If your footage is not HD there is nothing wrong with just releasing as SD. DVDs are not HD and upscaling is not nice and I generally advise against it (although there might be some special reasons for it in some cases). As for cleanliness, if you're using some old source, then it's obvious it won't look as clean as the recent shows, and nobody's gonna make a fuss over it. Just make sure you keep the Aspect Ratio correct, and don't kill the quality when compressing, and you're going to be fine.
Avisynth is not some black magic that will turn bad looking footage into perfection. You can rectify some issues to a degree, but you'll still likely have other downsides - for example deblocking and denoising will result in blurriness/lack of detail.
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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by Kariudo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:48 pm

Avisynth is a frameserver, which essentially means that it has to be used in conjunction with another program (like vdub)

As far as how its used, it's kinda like writing a computer program (think html or javascript). You don't need to know how to write programs, but a programmer trying to learn avisynth will probably have an easier time than someone who isn't a programmer.

AvsP will be a big help to you (part of the amvapp, get it if you don't already have it), as it starts your avisynth script for you when you drag/drop a video file into it (or open using file-> open)

what you should see is something like this

Code: Select all

MPEG2Source("D:\scryed\disk5.d2v", cpu=0)
This line brings your video into avisynth. There are other import filters besides MPEG2Source(), typically you'll see:
AVISource()
DirectShowSource() or DSS2()
FFMpegSource()

AVISource() being used when you have an .avi file
DirectShowSource() being used for stuff like .wmv files (or anything that you can play in programs like windows media player)
FFMpegSource() being used for stuff like .mp4, .mkv and the like

as a side note, DirectShowSource() is not frame accurate, which means if you try to seek to frame 6745 of your video it might mess up and show frame 6747 (or something else around 6745 that isn't 6745).
DSS2() is frame accurate (or at least better that DirectShowSource() is). part of avss.dll if you have the Haali media splitter or CCCP (which also has the Haali media splitter). Frame accuracy can be important for editors.

part 2 to come later, gotta run off to class
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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by TEKnician » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:37 pm

I just wanted cleaner footage. Yes, I do rip from DVDs, but I convert them to .mov and/or .mp4 and/or .m4v. Apparently, I'm a MAC person. I'm struggling right now because I am using my school's computer to make my AMVs. 1) My computer at home is crap. 2) My computer at home doesn't have internet. 3) My parents are anti-anime. I'm about to graduate in a month. After that, I will no longer have access to any computer to even check this site! I just wanted to go out with a bang, but I guess I'll have to just finish my "last" video with SD. Don't worry about part 2, Kariudo
Almost as hard as fighting a Holy Paladin.

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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by mirkosp » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:44 pm

You could probably just buy a good laptop (or macbook considering you're a MAC person) and connect to the internet with it from Internet cafés or places alike. Although there is always the "can you afford the laptop" question which I wouldn't know the reply to since I don't know your situation.
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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by Kariudo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:08 pm

Well I'll do part 2 anyway since it could help other people

After you have the video in avisynth, you can start filtering it.
The amvapp comes with some assortment of filters, but there might come a time where you need to download a filter. First stop for filters, the avisynth mediawiki. That link brings you to a page with a pretty good list of filters categorized by what they do (denoising, deinterlacing, sharpening, etc...) really useful when you know what you want to do but not what filters do it. After that, google is your friend. You can usually get somewhere by putting "avisynth" after whatever you want (ex. dot crawl avisynth brings up hits on filters that remove dot crawl, TFM() avisynth gives you a hit to where you can download the TFM() filter)

most times you'll find .dll or .avsi files. After downloading, you can put them into avisynth's plugins directory (C:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\) to autoload them. Doing so makes it easier for you later on, because if you don't put them in the plugins directory you have to manually load each one that you use by putting either LoadPlugin() or Import() into your script for .dll and .avsi files respectively.

Filtering is the toughest part of using avisynth because it requires:
1) That you know what footage issue you're trying to correct
2) That you know what filter(s) deal with the issue(s) you have
3) Patience to dial in the settings for each filter

In addition, there are 2 basic laws of filtering:
1)You should only use a filter if it can solve an issue that you see.
2)Your output quality is limited by your input quality

Knowing what footage issues you have takes time to learn, and probably the best way to learn is to post screenshots so other members can tell you what needs fixing. After a while, you'll be able to spot the issues on your own. This will also give you an idea of what filters do what. The biggest pitfall of people starting to work with avisynth is that they'll take a script for one series and just use it for everything. Generally speaking though (very generally speaking), each series needs a different avisynth script.

Each filter has different settings that control how the filter does what it does. Most filters are well documented, explaining what each parameter controls and how changing the value will affect your video. It takes a bit of time and a bit of determination to work through the documentation, and then some trial and error testing to get the "best" settings.

A relatively simple filter is fluxsmoothst(). It is a type of smoothing filter and has 2 parameters, spatial_threshold and temporal_threshold, the parameters are both int type (whole numbers like 1, 2 , 3, etc...) and increasing the parameters will increase the amount of smoothing that takes place. It would look something like

Code: Select all

fluxsmoothst(spatial_threshold = 8, temporal_threshold = 9)
in your script, and you keep changing the values of the parameters until you are satisfied.

The order that you use the filters in does make a difference, so

Code: Select all

TFM()
spline36resize(640,416)
and

Code: Select all

spline36resize(640,416)
TFM()
will give you different looking results.

There are a few rules for where to place different filters:
1) It is a very good idea to Deinterlace/IVTC before resizing
*related to resizing, keep your width and height as even numbers, some filters or codecs may require that your width and height be mod 16 (ie, width/16 = a whole number)
2) Sharpening filters should generally go after your smoothing filters
3) Some filters need (or prefer) interlaced input, so those would go before you deinterlace/IVTC

...And that's the end of my primer. I think everything else is best learned by doing, the only other thing is that Avisynth only works in windows. So if you have yourself a windows machine and still want to give it a shot you can post some screenshots so we can get started
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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by Scintilla » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:31 pm

The_TEKnician wrote:Apparently, I'm a MAC person.
AVISynth has, up to this point, been designed only for Windows systems (version 3.0 is supposed to be cross-platform, but I'm given to understand that development of that version has been stalled for a good long time now). If you don't have a copy of Windows that you can install on your (or the school's?) Mac, then you're probably better off forgetting about AVISynth.


(Mac people: can AVISynth be run under WINE or whatever the Mac equivalent of WINE is?)
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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by Mister Hatt » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:42 pm

Wine (no need for caps) can run avisynth, but I am not sure about darwine. You can use named pipes and avs2yuv to handle it.

Code: Select all

wine avs2yuv.exe script.avs -o - | x264 - --demuxer y4m --options
for example when using x264. To make an FFV1 lossless file, you could do

Code: Select all

mkfifo derp.y4m && wine avs2yuv.exe script.avs -o derp.y4m & mencoder derp.y4m -ovc lavc -oac null -lavcopts vcodec=ffv1 -ofps 23.976 -o lossless.avi
Just a note, there is no avisynth 3 and there never will be. The project is dead, and was never intended for OSX anyway. It's been dead for years, there is no reason to continually bring it up. Some people have access to a non-VFW build of avisynth 2.58 and if you know them, I would suggest asking for a copy. It's not public and I don't think anybody will release it anyway. Give up on multiplatform avs.

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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by Phantasmagoriat » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:22 pm

Not to discourage you, but... let's just say... I would be somewhat impressed if you learned avisynth to the depth you need in one month. It's possible, but it could get frustrating, especially at the end of it all when you find out it looks better unfiltered.

The best thing you can do to get good quality it to prevent quality loss, not simulate quality gain.

However, if you want to give avisynth a try, this might help:
Avisynth Use on Intel Macs
I'm not a Mac person myself, but apparently we have a subforum for them in Video Editing Software.
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Re: That's it, I give up...

Post by Mister Hatt » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:05 pm

Avisynth takes a few hours to learn the basics. The only thing that takes a month is learning to script really heavy things because you need to know what filters do behind the scenes and not all of them have their code available. A good teacher for a few hours is all that's required. Like Phantasmagoriat said, it will almost always look better without filtering unless you've taken the time to pay attention to what the filters are actually doing.

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