Kevin Caldwell Set The Standard...Now I'm Gonna Break It...

mexicanjunior · Post by **mexicanjunior** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:07 pm

Koopiskeva wrote:oh.. ya.. how come nobody pointed out SSI yet..

/me counters

SSI?

RichLather · Post by **RichLather** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:10 pm

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:05 pm

I just took a look at your stuff, and aside from the clip of sakura sucking her thumb, I'm not really impressed. First thing, when sakura closes her eye at the beginning that just looks really weird the way you fade it. Try actually giving it full animation. For the lip sync, it isn't really that good either. It especially looks bad where she says "last" because you don't show the L sound properly. Someone said when you make it look perfect, it looks forced. There is a difference between perfect and forced. It is possible to get perfect lip sync and have it still not look forced. On the other hand its possible to have less than perfect lip sync and have it look forced. I don't think the accuracy of lip sync has much of anything to do with how "forced" it comes out. Also note that in movies and such with a large budget, they DO properly sync the lips to the sounds. Another thing on your lip sync: Anyone can just make a characters lips move. I could probly lip-sync that scene in 5 minutes. The magic occurs when MORE is happening than just the lips flapping. When the character is moving, making subtle motions, etc.

Flint the Dwarf · Post by **Flint the Dwarf** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:17 pm

Grah... too many replies to read through. But see, the thing is... Kevin Caldwell's vids are great because they are entertaining. What's the point of having all those fine points of editing if no one notices? When making AMVs, the objective is entertainment. Caldwell mastered that, because he got a reaction with simple editing. I don't think I would've said that he was the best video editor in the world, but his videos are simple and entertaining with some decent editing.

klinky · Post by **klinky** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:18 pm

Actually I think After Effects has been around since the early ninties, Caldwell may have been using that. The effects used in Believe seem more towards that of After Effects rather then Premiere, but yar nevar know! ^_^

~klinky]

The_Mad_Hatter · Post by **The_Mad_Hatter** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:40 pm

Zarxrax wrote:I just took a look at your stuff, and aside from the clip of sakura sucking her thumb, I'm not really impressed.

Well that's good, the first part isn't that impressive, actually to be perfectly honest the whole front end before the lip synch has been completely changed around. I decided instead to show some quick memory flashes from 0:10 to 0:20 that have additive dissolve transitions that move fluidly with the sound of the music. Makes for a neat effect.

First thing, when sakura closes her eye at the beginning that just looks really weird the way you fade it. Try actually giving it full animation.

Yeah but then you don't notice it...although I guess it can be argued that some of the best edits are the ones you don't notice.

For the lip sync, it isn't really that good either. It especially looks bad where she says "last" because you don't show the L sound properly.

Oh fer cryin out loud, this is as bad as when I made Beginnings and most everyone was bitchin about the first version and how the various network logos (CN, WB, WB Patriotic) flashing between scenes was really distracting and I should cover them...so then I cover them with my own solid static logo and then peeps start complaining about that! o_O

I've found that when making AMVs...you can never truly please everyone...except yourself.

Someone said when you make it look perfect, it looks forced. There is a difference between perfect and forced.

Really? What is it? No see I keep hearing that from people but I don't see an explanation. What do you mean by "forced" See to me there's only two ways, either you match the lip movements as precisely as possible, or you just have the lips flappin when there's talkin...please, try and explain WHAT you mean by "forced", because it seems to me that's just a "i wanna be negative" critique. Which is fine, I really don't mind, but you could at least not be so freakin blatant about it.

It is possible to get perfect lip sync and have it still not look forced.

...

Uh...please 'o great master...tell us, what is your secret? o_O

On the other hand its possible to have less than perfect lip sync and have it look forced.

Did you ever see the movie Mystery Men? Can you guess which character you'd be?

I don't think the accuracy of lip sync has much of anything to do with how "forced" it comes out.

That is not an explanation of what "forced" means.

Also note that in movies and such with a large budget, they DO properly sync the lips to the sounds. Another thing on your lip sync: Anyone can just make a characters lips move.

*Hatter checks back to see where he said that just anyone couldn't do that*

O_o

I could probly lip-sync that scene in 5 minutes.

Oh I bet you couldn't do it any better than me. And BTW you're wrong about the L not lining up right. See I know it lines up perfectly cause there's a lil trick you can do in Premiere. See rather than play the video, set the cursor at the beginning of the clip and then switch to the preview window and start pressing the right arrow key. Basically that way you can watch and listen to the video in slow-mo and you can get your edits to line up perfectly. Granted watching them at full speed it doesn't always look super perfect because you're probably missing some minute changes. Watch the clip a good thirty times in a row and really stare at it, you'll find it really doesn't get any more perfect than the way I have it. See that's what I consider to not be "forced", when the actual footage lines up PERFECTLY to the voices, but to the average viewer watching it it's not always super apparent unless they're paying really close attention.

The magic occurs when MORE is happening than just the lips flapping. When the character is moving, making subtle motions, etc.

I totally agree with that and there will be many segments like that in the video. Keep in mind about 85% of the song is spoken without any straight music parts except for the first 20 seconds or so, after that it's non-stop talking.

mexicanjunior · Post by **mexicanjunior** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:56 pm

The_Mad_Hatter wrote: Oh fer cryin out loud, this is as bad as when I made Beginnings and most everyone was bitchin about the first version and how the various network logos (CN, WB, WB Patriotic) flashing between scenes was really distracting and I should cover them...so then I cover them with my own solid static logo and then peeps start complaining about that! o_O

I've found that when making AMVs...you can never truly please everyone...except yourself.

Wouldn't using non-logo DVD footage appease them? O_o

The_Mad_Hatter · Post by **The_Mad_Hatter** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:00 pm

mexicanjunior wrote:
The_Mad_Hatter wrote: Oh fer cryin out loud, this is as bad as when I made Beginnings and most everyone was bitchin about the first version and how the various network logos (CN, WB, WB Patriotic) flashing between scenes was really distracting and I should cover them...so then I cover them with my own solid static logo and then peeps start complaining about that! o_O

I've found that when making AMVs...you can never truly please everyone...except yourself.

Wouldn't using non-logo DVD footage appease them? O_o

Didn't have it at the time, although now that you bring it up I fully plan on redoing both my old CCS videos from scratch using the DVD footage I have now.

Org Profile · Post by **Vlad G Pohnert** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:03 pm

klinky wrote:Actually I think After Effects has been around since the early ninties, Caldwell may have been using that. The effects used in Believe seem more towards that of After Effects rather then Premiere, but yar nevar know! ^_^

~klinky]

I asked. His friend said he used Premiere and Photoshop...

Vlad

The_Mad_Hatter · Post by **The_Mad_Hatter** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:08 pm

Sorta OT in this thread, but on the topic of tools, using Paint Shop's Animation Shop works really great for frame by frame editing, especially if you don't have the latest version of Preimier that let's you right click on frames and edit them.