Religion

[wurpess]

@wupress: Did they say anything about Canada winning the in the Olympics ...? bad joke, i know >_<

Let's see, who they are, creation, evolution, "mythical" creatures, quantum physics+religion/"superior" beings, the deal with God vs. Lucifer, my purpose in life, my future children(s)' purpose(s) in life, the apocolypse/end of the world, sex. . .nope, nothing on Canada.

being a schiz with the variety of voices I have makes things in the religious end interesting. (Lets just say that if I were religious, I probably would have been deemed "chosen" were I to reveal the words of my voices, but since I'm not. . . .)

You are the modern Joan Of Arc.

x3 to the chrono props.

lol. And luckily I'm grounded enough to realize that the voices are probably just part of that whole psychosis thing and not actually some superior beings talking to me. And have enough of a sense of humor to be able to laugh about it. (Though am open minded enough to keep it in the back of my mind. . .you know. . .just in case I'm not completely crazy. . since they can be eerily intuitive at times. )

[Copycat_Revolver]

...a bunch of dismissive crap.

What in the merry old hell is your point?

Look, there are a lot of people out there who do believe in some sort of god. You don't have to agree with it but you do have to respect it.

For Political correctness's sake you may have to act like you respect it, but to be true to science and logic, you don't have to respect it at all.

Actually, what I was referring to was an individual's personal faith. They can do whatever they want, but once that belief starts screwing with other people's lives, then we're in a whole different ballgame. I'm not saying that every person's opinion is instantly true.

Also, I only said that a certain percentage of atheists were of the angry, not really an atheist variety.

To clarify, though, I am an atheist as well. And I despise organized religion fiercely. However, I think the problem with it is the "organized" part. Groups of people who use their religion as a moral highground to undermine the natural rights of others is a plague and a cancer eating at the intestines of society.
Even so, I don't think every person who believes in god should instantly be condemned if their faith is what gets them through the day without gouging their own eyes out with a letter opener.

My problem with Sukunai's post was how she basically shat upon anybody who isn't a cynical skeptic and calling all beliefs trash (basically). Many people do need their religion and they should be allowed that.

That's all. Continue the thread as normal.

[surfsama]

My problem with Sukunai's post was how she basically shat upon anybody

I actually learned something from this thread.

[Sukunai]

...a bunch of dismissive crap.

What in the merry old hell is your point?

Look, there are a lot of people out there who do believe in some sort of god. You don't have to agree with it but you do have to respect it.

Please see previous post about "angry athiests".

The fact remains that people should be allowed to believe in whatever they bloody well please, "fictional" or not. If you want to worship Willy the Magical Doorknob, go right ahead and build a damn shrine. I'll buy you a wreath.

Also, why is it that you think athiests (or whoever) aren't allowed to use words like "believe"? That is the most childish bit of nonsense I've been subjected to recently. So congrats on that part.

I'd like to respond to your nonsensical post, but to be honest, it's probably easier to just steal Bashar's post and use it. He said pretty much my response anyway.

Short answer, there is more logic in fining me for not wearing a seatbelt (for my own damn good) than fining me for telling you your religion is indicative you have a weak mind and under developed intellect and a fear driven belief system deprived of an ability to deal with scientific fact (borders on hate crime if done the wrong way).

You call it "dismissive crap". That's interesting.
Your belief is almost entirely crap.
Faith is just a word denoting you have decided to suspend thinking.

As for "screwing with other people's lives", it already is.
Between Christians telling me I can't screw my wife in broad daylight in a park, and sex is a perfectly natural act, not the disgusting sinful act you want it to be, and Muslims telling me they can beat the crap out of a woman, and I can't beat the crap out of the man for doing it, because it's his religious right to do it. Oh yeah, you religious freaks are screwing with MY rights plenty.

Note to any Muslims present. Abuse a female in my presence, and you are being sent to a hospital emergency ward with life threatening injuries. And no human law will make me change my mind.

Specific note to Copycat_Revolver, I am not a "she" (well that was fairly obvious to my wife at least an hour ago). I like Sailormoon, which is why I used it as an avatar. Assuming I am a female based on an avatar is clumsy. Assuming I am female based on a peculiar sounding forum name is also clumsy.
Not reading my post close enough to "hear" the atypical male tone is also clumsy.

To conclude this post, I wish to respond to this specifically.

"Look, there are a lot of people out there who do believe in some sort of god. You don't have to agree with it but you do have to respect it."

Respecting a person's religion has nothing to do with respect. It's just a matter of practicality.
I don't HAVE to be practical, but it might be too UNPRACTICAL to do otherwise in some cases.
You don't openly slag gays in the middle of a gay rally.
It's not bright to be a nazi in Israel.
Claiming to be a satanist is unwise in a Catholic church.
It's not smart to walk into a Scientology property and start slagging them off.
I think you should be able to get THAT point.

Science is not about respect. Science is just a search for knowledge.
In the scientific community, if you utter a claim of scientific fact, that attacks current scientific fact, and claims the currently accepted facts are in error, you either have iron clad proof, that can be repeated, and defended under extreme scrutiny, or you get told your facts are full of shit.
It's not considered "intolerant", and your attackers and not considered as lacking in faith. It's not a hate crime to publicly publish material ridiculing your ideas and calling you all sort of nasty reputation killing bad names.

Science is no friend of unprovable gibberish.
And science is not required to respect stupid notions.

Again, I am not an atheist, nor an agnostic. I'm not interested in playing the label game.
I suppose if I had to say soooomething, I'd say I'm a scientist.

[Sukunai]

"Christianity is about accepting people for who they are, and refraining from judging others. It's about accepting Jesus as our Savior, and realizing that He died for our sins, all in order for us to get into Heaven. Not only that, but by living by the Bible and Its Word."

Sounds all nice and warm and fuzzy.

Then you are forced to remember things like, these same people refuse to leave their religion at home.

They insist on enacting laws slanted in their favour.
Death penalty, I'm for it, they are not. Why are they not for it? Oh it's their religious beliefs.
Abortion, oh you can bet their religion will show up for this one.
Gays getting married, yep, they will impose their will on that too.
Age of majority, this is also a religiously driven decision.
Legality of doing weed, heck they even show up here.

These non judgmental Christians are simply incapable of being non judgmental.
They will claim nearly anything in order to get their way.
And they usually do, because in a democracy, the most votes wins.
Which I think is why they are so scared of Islam, as those Muslims are breeding like rabbits while the Christian world is in decline. Heck there are more and more Muslims showing up, even though they have a fondness for killing their young off in Jihads (you never see old suicide bombers for some reason).

The only way to sell Christianity, in a fashion that holds true to the message, is to make it so appealing, that I demand you let me have it too.
Telling me I'm going to hell for being a sinner" yeah that's really great marketing.
Stomping all over my rights? yeah pissing me off is a good way to influence me.

Actually STOP telling me how to run my life, and I might believe you don't actually want to.

[AquaSky]

See ? That's exactly what I meant about people with a persecution complex. Get over it.

You cry about people trying to influence your beliefs, but you think you have the right to push yours on others ? Hypocrite.

[AquaSky]

D'aww, I ended up on the next page. That last post was in reply to Sukunai.

[The Origonal Head Hunter]

Just so we're all on the same page with Sukunai, here is the Webster's Dictionary entry for the word 'fact':

Main Entry: fact
Pronunciation: \ˈfakt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin factum, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere
Date: 15th century
1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime <accessory> carchaic : action
2archaic : performance, doing
3: the quality of being actual : actuality <a>
4 a: something that has actual existence <space> b: an actual occurrence <prove>
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact : in truth

I don't wish to get deeper into this debate than I have to but I would like to say something about this.

Science is not about respect. Science is just a search for knowledge.
In the scientific community, if you utter a claim of scientific fact, that attacks current scientific fact, and claims the currently accepted facts are in error, you either have iron clad proof, that can be repeated, and defended under extreme scrutiny, or you get told your facts are full of shit.

One cannot prove or disprove religion/religious faith with science because: 1) it isn't observable with the 5 senses, 2)as you said it isn't repeatable, so someone can't just repeat a prayer and see its results again every time, 3)you can't do a scientific experiment on a soul.
Also, if you have an article or some such proof that a Christian has ever come out in the scientific community claiming his faith as fact, I'd love to read it. Seriously, I would.

[ngsilver]

Because I could care less to actually read the whole thread and bother getting into arguments about religion (I get enough of that shit with my family) I'm just going to answer the op's question.

I believe the official label that I fall under is Agnostic Theist. Essentially, I believe in some kind of God, what it is I don't know, what set of rules I should follow because of it I'm also undecided upon. You could say I'm in the market, but really I'm not.

I'm a firm believer in the power of the mind over the body. The mind can do many things that can seem supernatural. The world is based off of perception.

I was raised a protestant. The two sects I was raised under is Missionary and Southern Baptist. The only difference between the two I've found is geographical location and one believes in 'once saved always saved' and the other does not. I did the whole accepting jesus thing, was baptised twice, and remain a member of my parent's church. Of course, I haven't gone in years other then special occasions like Easter when I visit my parents or Xmas service with the whole family.

From my point of view religion in it's purest form is merely a method of control. For the longest time in western society religion has been the main driving force for laws, injustices, death, murder, genocide, ect. Religion rarely tells you what you can do, but it more often then not will go into great detail about what you CAN'T do. Though religions have a way of breaking the rules that they themselves set forth, especially if members in power are doing the breaking. I could cite incidents, but really, in this day and age and the internet, do I really need to?

For me, essentially I don't know what I want to believe. I do know I hate the institution of religion as a whole. Not entirely due to personal experiences (though I have been persecuted under the protection of these 'religious beliefs') but more because as an educated person with a scientific mindset I see what it has been, and what it could become again.

[Sukunai]

See ? That's exactly what I meant about people with a persecution complex. Get over it.

You cry about people trying to influence your beliefs, but you think you have the right to push yours on others ? Hypocrite.

Assuming that was directed at me, I am not "pushing" beliefs on anyone.

I have never "believed" in anything I have said in this topic.

I don't allow "belief" to rule my existence.

Now if that was directed at someone else, then I guess my response was not required at this time.