Nico Nico Douga vs AJA/JVA/MPPA - Bye Bye Anime MADs

[Sukunai]

As the self proclaimed official moderator of my own post I request that everyone refrain from discussing fansubs.

There is a difference between a derivative work and a translated copy of a work.

And yes I was involved with fansubs before most of the people who download them these days knew they existed. Thus I feel justified that I have the right to request excluding fansubs from this discussion.

Thanks

Well only speaking as a moderator of my own posts, my donator status I hope speaks volumes for my thoughts regarding the org.

Speaking as someone that knows plenty of the laws concerning digital rights (even if not enough to practice it in a court room, the difference between an amv and a fansub is sweet diddly. It a court room both are stolen property. Anything after that is meaningless noise.

As for my time with fansubs, well I likely don't go back that far. I think I enter the anime scene around 95, which isn't far back (well to me at least). And I was only watching stuff thanks to a collector friend.

Excluding fansubs from this discussion accomplishes exactly what?
It's plain most people are using fansubs sourced material, not everyone has the pleasure of dvd source content (although that is increasing as dvd becomes more and more available).

As I mentioned, I have no past with the recently mangled site. But, I am plenty confident that claiming WE are a joke in comparison with yourtube is ridiculous. They have only one thing we don't have hear, millions and millions of idiots posting low grade shit.
It's not like that place has no worth, I just rarely get to see anything on it that looks like it was worth it.

Anyway, the whole point is, will the commercial operations kill off the fansubbers as well as the AMVers, or will they not. Looking for businesses to always make intelligent choices is not something I would plan to rely on. I've seen too many companies make brain dead choices in my life.

[LivingFlame]

But, I am plenty confident that claiming WE are a joke in comparison with yourtube is ridiculous. They have only one thing we don't have hear, millions and millions of idiots posting low grade shit.
It's not like that place has no worth, I just rarely get to see anything on it that looks like it was worth it.

How good the stuff on youtube is isn't going to make a difference to big companies, so that's really beside the point. The real point is that there are one heck of a lot more viewers (and uploaders) on youtube than here (making us more of a 'joke'), so the obvious first target would be the tube. (Regardless of how piss poor a video is, the contained copyrighted scenes are still copyrighted scenes, so of course they'll attack the one with more potential of that copyrighted material being viewed first.)

And hey, if I was a company, I'd rather take the bad stuff down first anyway. At least the good stuff might get somebody to watch my show/listen to my music.

[Kionon]

the difference between an amv and a fansub is sweet diddly. It a court room both are stolen property. Anything after that is meaningless noise.

This is inaccurate, and dangerous. It'd be wise of you to avoid comparisons after the request to do so. Regardless, you're wrong, at least as far as America is concerned. Derivative works are protected under certain conditions. Otherwise entire scholarly fields would be outlawed. The question is not whether AMVs are derivative works; the question is are they works that meet the conditions for protection. Conventional wisdom is that they not, but then, I believe our contention is that they do. Especially in cases where the purpose is clearly parody.

Also, this dead horse has already been exhumed and beaten multiple times. Best to put the bones back.

[Sukunai]

"Also, this dead horse has already been exhumed and beaten multiple times. Best to put the bones back."

I can certainly agree with that.

Laws as you indicated, can vary from nation to nation.
What doesn't fly in one country, might not be a problem elsewhere.

LivingFlame also had a point too I guess. It's not always about quality, it is sometimes about quantity.

[Bauzi]

How good the stuff on boochsack is isn't going to make a difference to big companies, so that's really beside the point.

I don´t think so. There might be a chance that someone says:
"Hey the stuff here is real spam/crap, but this stuff here could be tastefull ad for my products, mhm..."

This might be the end of art if someone comes with a red pen and marks all the unworthy (for ads) videos.

It´s how you present the hobby. The companies won´t be pleased with tons of crap made out of illegal material. How about stuff that was exclusively made out of bought stuff and is well credited? It´s ad. No one would stop buying a series, just because they saw an amv to it. They might be distracted and won´t buy it at all, but that´s much better than be frustrated because the anime is bullshit.
... and in the end... at least one bought the products: the amv creator.

You can´t beat a dead horse.

[Kitsuner]

You can´t beat a dead horse.

Judging by previous threads on the org, I'd have to disagree very heartily.

[Shui]

... and in the end... at least one bought the products: the amv creator.

You mean it may be possible for them to say that we can only publish amv's made with stuff that we can proof that we bought it ?

Some HD raws are very excellent quality and Blue-rays too expensive.

[Bauzi]

I don´t wanna say that the org can´t be sued, but there are some stuff that we should consider:

-Is there money to be made?
Can you get money if you sue the .org ?

-How much financial damage do we prevent?
Damage: illegal bought products

-How much positive can be/is there in issite?
Ad...

-Threatlevel?
How much do you scare people if you sue such a site? The industry often showed how perfedic they can get like sueing a granny for downloading Snoob Dog songs for her grandchild...
You would get a much higher threat for piracy if you really have the guts to sue the tube for amvs.

-Ressult
How many millions have I lost with this action?

It´s not easy to callculate such points and if you get something like:
"oh we would save 250.000 dollars...", there is still the question if it´s worth the troubles after all.

You mean it may be possible for them to say that we can only publish amv's made with stuff that we can proof that we bought it ?

woah. Now that´s really a scary though.

Some HD raws are very excellent quality and Blue-rays too expensive.

As long as the overall quality of anime DVDs are unpleasent and the price is not acceptable, the industry won´t get any dramatic increase of anime sells.


@Kit:
So our horse is still alive? cool. Let´s get a cute ribbon and decorate it!

[Autraya]

-_-

@Bauzi - I do risk assessments for the government, there's a more structured way to look at threat levels/risk events and liabilities, and though I'm not trying to pick on you in particular (you just go me thinking as you tried to categorise it and after reading some of the self important drivel I earlier -_- ) every time I see these threads I see people with the same old arguements *sigh*
It really was an effort to not flame the individual :\

On a side note, if you were a medium(ish) company why would you take on youtube? Why not go for the easy win and shut down place like here first? it's much more cost effective

This horse has probably been beaten to death so many times it's become a ghost and is haunting the forums, that's why the bastid keeps comming back.

[Kitsuner]

@Kit:
So our horse is still alive? cool. Let´s get a cute ribbon and decorate it!

I never said it was alive. I just disagreed that we can't beat it. I've seen us beat it. We beat it all the time.