That #AMV-Review Discussion Again

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Kionon
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That #AMV-Review Discussion Again

Post by Kionon » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:08 am

Opening this up to the main forums:

I think it's been pretty clear this last month since I movef to Japan that -review has been pretty much ignored by me. This made a lot of sense, afterall, I was settling in, changing work schedules, and generally getting used to my cituation here. I have come to two main conclusions:

1). I am not prepared to step down, as I don't feel there is anyone who can truly step up to replace me. For better or worse, this is my project, and I haven't been a very good coordinator. I will need help to go about changing this, but it's fairly obvious I'm in this for the long haul. Y'all are stick with me.

3). It will be all but impossible for me to make -review at its current time. I am 12 hours away from EDT. Meaning that when it is 8:30 PM in New England on Monday, I am going into work on Tuesday morning. I often teach first period, which starts at 8:50 AM, lasting until 9:40 AM. Essentially, that's most of the current review period. I am the first to realise that the time period was established to serve North American attendees, however, this has has screwed almost everyone else in another timezone. Even when we can, as in the past, get Asia, Australia, and North America to agree, we pretty much screw Europe.

This leads me to ask all the editors and viewers who have either been featured in, attended an example of, or thought of attending and example of review a few questions:

1). What time range would work for you?

For me, I pretty much am unavailable during prime time and into the wee hours. 8PM to 5AM EDT. There are exceptions to this, and I am probably going to be purchasing a laptop that might allow more flexibility in the periods I don't teach, but let's not count on that. If we can move review Earlier, say even 7:00-8:00PM EDT, I would be able to make it.

2). Are you willing to consider starting a "prime time" -review session for your Time Zone/Continent?

I will be more than happy to run an Asia/Australia friendly -review session in our Prime Time. Are there any Europeans willing to do the same? The North Americans seem to be the crux of the issue here, but it'd be nice if I could have deputies to rely on...

3). What would you liked discuss, and if multiple, how would you balance the ratios?

I would like to continue our rotation of new editors that need help but show potential, and highlights of some of the greater, more well-known and capable editors. But I would also like to continue the meta-discussions, compare/contrast, and theme discussions. Reviews with muitople videos, especially where two videos tried to accomplish the same goal, but one succeeded and one did not. At first I would think that the ratio should be equal, rotating every three weeks between new editor, established editor, theme or compare/contrast.

Furthermore, I wish to construct a more reliable system for video selection, but other than the fact I'd like to have myself, a new editor, an established editor, a non-editor, and a wildcard, I haven't worked out the details. Jokes aside about my own dubious status, I'd really like to hear from some female editors interested in these positions.

*picks up coffee cup and motions*

Please, talk amongst yourselves.
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Post by Kionon » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:09 am

I really have to learn to use that damn preview button.
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Post by OropherZero » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:18 am

Well I tuned out of AMV-Review because it was basically becoming "Oh lets look at a successful video on AMV announcement made by someone not generally inside the a-m-v.org community and lets rip it apart". If you address the immaturity of that sentiment and get a good selection process going like you mentioned above, then it will be good. I liked how this was runned right at the start when quadir was fully leading it, it had a lot of potential then, can't remember at what review did the entire thing start to drift off in a direction which makes most people want to ignore it.

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Post by OropherZero » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:24 am

"Reviews with muitople videos, especially where two videos tried to accomplish the same goal, but one succeeded and one did not." That's a good idea, one of the main issues I had with AMV-Review is that it severly lacked structure. Good reviews address the good and the bad, if you can't find anything good then you have to at least attempt to adopt the perspective of the majority who do find it good and aim to discuss those aspects. Back to the notion of structure, most of the reviews I read, it starts and someone goes ranting on about 1 particular effect/filter/preset and the review continues from there and eventually turns almost flame-like. Structure, structure, structure... when you write an essay, do you go straight into the tools and techniques used to convey theme, without first making an introduction and actually addressing what these themes are? Well okay I like to write essays where I do the opening paragraph last, but I don't think it quite works in discussions. So right at the start, address what the creator tried to do, if you can't figure it out then try to find a basis to start an argument, something everyone can hopefully agree on and work from there. If you start off straight with the technicalities the review won't go anywhere - like common bickering between 2 people. I'll add some ideas when I think of them.

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Post by Kionon » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:47 am

The slide into extreme negativity is largely the fault of myself. Others were far worse about it than I was, but I let it get out of hand. I come from a school of criticism that teaches the tough love kind of approach. Where the idea is to tear down and the build back up. Certain members of the -review team took that to an extreme, and I let them, even participating in harsher words than I was previously known for. In retrospect, I believe this to have been the wrong approach to take. This is precisely the reason why the selection committee is so important. The wide range of views will help to temper extremes on either side: cushiness to the point of uselessness, or harshness to the point of abuse.
OropherZero wrote: I had with AMV-Review is that it severly lacked structure. Good reviews address the good and the bad, if you can't find anything good then you have to at least attempt to adopt the perspective of the majority who do find it good and aim to discuss those aspects.
There has been an internal debate over this for some time. Some who want more structure, some who want less. Honestly, the idea of -review was kind of like a communist five year plan. Control would only be instituted until such time as the citizens of the People's Republic of #AMV-Review took it upon themselves to discuss videos at all hours of the day and night, regardless of continent or timezone, moderation or op presence, receiving criticism according to their needs and dispensing it according to their abilities, leading, of course, to a AMVing paradise where the people rule...

As we have seen, this hasn't happened. I think my major push for balance was a structured -review sessions, but an entirely unstructured, no-holds barred, come in whenever you want, Beta Thursday. In case you missed it, that means EVERY DAY IS BETA THURSDAY.

The goal should be for -review to promote mini-reviews according to timezone, continent, genre, studio, or what I had for breakfast this morning and what kind of heels JaddziaDax likes to wear to military balls in Killeen.
Back to the notion of structure, most of the reviews I read, it starts and someone goes ranting on about 1 particular effect/filter/preset and the review continues from there and eventually turns almost flame-like. Structure, structure, structure... when you write an essay, do you go straight into the tools and techniques used to convey theme, without first making an introduction and actually addressing what these themes are?
I addressed the negative tone above.

Actually, by general consensus, we've agreed that if we DON'T get the technical out of the way immediately, that it will come up later and dominate the review session. Also, in my case, certainly, and in the cases of several members of the team, the technical is the first thing we remember. The first thing that can make or break a video for us. It can, to be blunt, kill a video. It's hard to examine theme and symbology and metaphor when your eyes are screaming because that goddamned, christ-forsaken lensflare just totally blinded you... and what the hell was it doing in a ROMANCE video anyway?
Well okay I like to write essays where I do the opening paragraph last, but I don't think it quite works in discussions. So right at the start, address what the creator tried to do, if you can't figure it out then try to find a basis to start an argument, something everyone can hopefully agree on and work from there. If you start off straight with the technicalities the review won't go anywhere - like common bickering between 2 people. I'll add some ideas when I think of them.
I think we have been trying to do this. I can think of several reviews where a member of the team has said, "Okay, what what the creator saying? Okay, great. Did she succeed? No. Okay... why not? ....because she kept adding lensflares to a romance video..."

:P
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Post by JaddziaDax » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:54 pm

tl;dr

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Post by Orwell » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:57 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:tl;dr
Thank you for the informative post on how challenging it is to read mere paragraphs.
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Post by CodeZTM » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:04 pm

Personally, I find everything about AMV Review's techincal aspects to be fine.

It's more or less the selection of videos that seems to disturb me. Also, I don't like the whole "oh look, people liked it, let's rape it up the bum".


But personally, I really can't talk since I've never really been a part of it before, but I would like to be part of it (usually I work on Mondays).

*sits back and noms cake while others talk amongst themselves*

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Post by Kionon » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:17 pm

CodeChrono wrote:But personally, I really can't talk since I've never really been a part of it before, but I would like to be part of it (usually I work on Mondays).

*sits back and noms cake while others talk amongst themselves*
You didn't say what time or day you could make it, nor did you give an example of the type of videos you would like to see reviewed.
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Post by Fall_Child42 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:43 pm

I didn't mind the videos persay ... I did mind the rules.

I didn't like being restricted on what I could and couldn't talk about.
I didn't like the fact that the videos had to be made within the last year, or whatever other guidelines were put on that.

I do remember a large majority of drama/romance/sentimental videos getting picked ...

On a side note (although I must admit I was able to participate much more during the beginning) I'm not sure where this idea that we "Take popular videos and hate on them" I seem to remember having very positive comments for a few videos both popular and not, as well as heaping criticism on non popular videos. I suppose it's just that when we did it to the popular ones they got far more attention.

I can't as of yet comment on the time issue.
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