#amv-review log - Because Kio can't figure out cut 'n paste

[Autraya]

being "brutally honest" is one thing, saying only idiots would vote for a specific video isn't brutally honest, its flaming.

:O *whacks Katie with stick* feel the lub O:
Hence I was talking specifically about jaspers comments with which I disagreed not whether the "idiots" was flaming

[JaddziaDax]

Aut i was stating something general O: not going after your comment in specific :3

[Otohiko]

aussies tend to insult people they like poking sticks at them constantly, when we aren't doing that you know there is something wrong...

That's like me saying Russians have to be raging drunk and paranoid the whole time.

Listen, I don't think this is an issue of calling a spade a spade. This is an issue of community participation. My sense is that AMV Review has been trying to establish itself as a productive, credible part of the community that would basically fill in a gap between popular opinion and buddy-circles - a more-or-less unbiased forum which would give both honest feedback to creators and a better critical perspective for potential viewers.

It's starting to falter at both of those and its credibility I'm afraid, because it's apparently become not a forum for unbiased feedback and critical perspective, but evidently a place for some people to act Australian. And the comment quoted above is where I nail you and some others I'm afraid - lately review been more of a place for people to express and project their own identity (e.g. being mean-ass Australian) than actually do anything useful for the community.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to say whatever you want and call a spade a spade, or use whatever variety of English you want. But I think anyone can reserve the right to consider your feedback unproductive and the forum to which you contribute it less credible.

AMV Review needs to consider its Raison d'être - whether it's there as a productive, credible, critical outlet, or as a place for certain people to flaunt their e-genitals.

[Autraya]

*pokes Oto in broken elbow*

I'm not in the #amv review if you hadn't noticed, mainly due to it being run at some strange hour in the morning for me, neither are any other aussies. Although I pop in every now and again for some beta testing.
So how you think there are a bunch of people acting like burlies in there is strange considering my comments weren't so much about the review as to disagreeing with jasper's take on not sugar coating things and being honnest, I'm not sure why you feel the need to take it out of context and try to twist my words like that. :\
esp since the convo's with katie on this page explain that i'm not so much talking about the review.

And I'd say from your comments you obviously haven't met many aussies if any at all, we are caled "burly" for a reason ;]

[Otohiko]

*actually the elbow-poke would feel kinda good*

First off, I didn't totally mean to aim it at you or Aussies (some of whom I do happen to know and love ), but more specifically at the issue of similar things going on in review.

I think it's true that it's not what you say, but how you say it, but even more so - why you say it. I see of iffy stuff going on in feedback all around - and it's not like I have a straight answer for why it's going around, but I do wonder whether it is genuine feedback meant to be useful to the author and potential audience, or is just there to assert the viewer's personality.

The fact is that you can't have one without the other. I'd be naive if I thought that. But when it comes to more "institutionalized" things like AMV-review, you'd expect that healthier discussion and actual critical feedback would be focused on and encouraged more than it is.

[Autraya]

*actually the elbow-poke would feel kinda good*

that could be a sign that you should have less pain killers

The fact is that you can't have one without the other. I'd be naive if I thought that. But when it comes to more "institutionalized" things like AMV-review, you'd expect that healthier discussion and actual critical feedback would be focused on and encouraged more than it is.

i have noticed in the months that the tone has been changing in amv review, and I've also noted that some of the "nicer" people have been refusing to accept the validity of the "hasher" opinions and vice versa, and in somecases creaters being a little too attached to their work (thicker skin helps). But that aside it's all easy to point out what people aren't liking in the review and ascribe all kinds of motivations to it, but that doesn't help with a solution/way forward.
Is the solution just to can the reviews or to morph and change it's focus/format somewhat?
Either way creators shouldn't expect to be praised about every aspect of their vids, often we are blind to our "mistakes" unless they are pointed out... bah at the end it's all a matter of opinion anyway

jesus christ i'm getting defencive and I don't even know why... oh wait actually i do.... nm >.< i'll shut up now (finally)

[jasper-isis]

Either way creators shouldn't expect to be praised about every aspect of their vids

People keep reiterating this point, but we already know that. Notice that I didn't say a word against being able to give negative criticism, but rather the tone with which criticism is getting doled out with nowadays. It's not endless praise that we want, just some tact and common courtesy doggone it!

?

[JudgeHolden]

Maybe we need to start to enforce a code of ethics? I know, I know, in this era of the republican ethics is looked down upon ...

[godix]

Huh. I always thought quadir was being overly pedantic when he claimed the channel was misnamed but maybe he's right. The intent never really was an 'institutionalized' review but rather a place and time people could gather and give talk about videos on a different level than the one line feedback the announcement forum gets.

As far as tone there's Niotex, Servo, and myself in there. The only way tone will change is if more people who phrase things nicely joins because odds are pretty slim the three of us will shut up. It's darkly amusing that this thread took issue with and drove off the person who was the most consistently nice.

[quadir]

Hi. I made the amv-review. I'm not running it anymore. Here's my 2c.

The review is misnamed. It's amv-discussion. The organized monday discussion was just a gimmick, the ops given to editors way back just giving back to the community. Even a stronger focus on constructive comments is a gimmick.

The amv community needs channels of communication where people can talk about the videos being made. No matter what the comments are. No matter if the editors sees them or not. There was nothing a year ago when this started, now there's a bit more.

This has always been the stated goal. Posting on the forums is so more people can join the discussion. Something that very rarely happens, although it seems a lot of people tune it like it was an episode of the Sopranos, I dunno what they thinking they're doing. It's also so people get used to the idea that posting about videos they've watched and what they think about them is OK. Outside of announcements and op exchange even!

Godix and ngsilver did a great job of conveying intent in this thread, if you read em, you'll understand what it's about.

And here's some specific replies:

1. I made this for fun, it's a hobby, don't take the videos so seriously
2. Don't say con crowds are stupid
3. wtf Driftroot your video was better then mine?!?

1. If some people get together, they can take your video however they want. You shared it. If you don't like how people receive it, stop sharing it.

2. Hi, I'm a non-editor and I attent con amv-contests. I'd say con crowds are like one that expects Britney Spears Crossroads to play. If you don't have britney, and all you got is HAL, it aint gona fly. And while it's oversimplyfying things, stop telling me to leave britney alone, I'll trash her and her fans all I want. Further replies from people have even mentioned how they were dumified through the crowd process.

3. Rock on DR. It's too bad she didn't stand up to herself like silver did, but even I admit you're an intimidating bunch. Congrats on making a girl cry. Looking at something and going 'how did this win over X?' is a completely valid question/statement and of course it's a difference of opinion but so is most of what comes out of your mouth. The fact that X is your own video makes the comment seem more whiney then it is, but everyone makes these kinds of statements all the time. But maybe you're emo wah wah trythil wah wah I suck and don't. Stop being a bunch of hypocrits.

3. wtf Driftroot your video was better then vlads?!?

</circle> Get off your ego trip and eat your own salsa.

4. Review quality is so down! Bring back the golden years! or Told You So

4. Review is as good as the participants. Think about that. You're participating right now on the thread. What have you contributed towards the video discussion? Did you elevate the discussion above what you accuse it of, or have you just perpetuated it? Should an off topic forum not exist simply because some people perceive it is being abused? Think long and hard about what you are trying to promote here.

I think it needs to be understood that it should be taken into account that as such it's a "published" discussion and not something people talk about in the back street away from public ears.

The only reason logs are posted on the forums is to give other people the opportunity to join in and continue the discussion. The gen forums are not a magazine. They are not a scientific journal. Nor are they the amv newsletter. If you abuse the goodwill of the organizers in inviting you into the discussion, and giving the creator a sneek peek at random thoughts of people about their video when nobody's looking, then you will lose the privilage.

5. People should volunteer their videos.

5. Guess what, they do! It's called submissions. They also recommend their friends and other peoples videos. But the bottom line is that it's a discussion, I don't ask permission from Michael Bay to talk about Transformers. Fall Child showed up in #amv-review, dropped a video link and we started talking about it. That's what -review is all about, talking about amvs. I'd say when's the last time that happened, but there's been a lot of interest of late in this kind of content in the community, I'm really happy about that. Promoting it was my goal. Wether it's because of me or not, I sign off with a mission accomplished.