I just pre-ordered the D&D 4e core set off of Amazon.

inthesto · Post by **inthesto** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:11 am

I don't understand all this talk about 4e becoming like an MMO, so I just assume that everyone who says that is an alarmist dumbass who doesn't know what they're talking about.

I'm probably right, anyway.

Kalium · Post by **Kalium** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:46 am

I looked at the preview book.

It's a friggin MMO. There's no real room for doubt at this point.

inthesto · Post by **inthesto** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:08 am

I looked at the universe.

It's friggin intelligently designed. There's no real doubt at this point.

Sukunai · Post by **Sukunai** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:26 am

All 4th edition is, is an apology for 3.5

Sorry, we promised in 3.0 you wouldn't need more than the 3 core manuals. Then we started pumping out other manuals. Then we really screwed you up the ass when we said oops and made you repurchase it all as 3.5. And then we reeeeeeally started to churn out additional manuals. Not only that, but we didn't even say sorry when all those manuals made your bookshelf fall off the wall from the weight and kill your cat fluffy.

And we even let everyone make open license variations so that you could feel the thrill of having your wallet gang banged by every doofus with a word processor and the opinion they could design adequate supplemental variations to the game system.

What has surprised me the most though. Is even though my gaming group has obviously enjoyed being repeatedly abused by every author on the market, thjey actually appear seriously interested in 4th edition.

Go figure.

I'm glad I decided Alternity was better. I only have 3 books. So if I feel like checking out 4th edition, I don't have the same financial exhaustion.

If it seems like an MMO it's likely only because the MMOs have been copying the RPGs for that long. But until I actually see the books in hand, I am not saying yea or nea on this one.
The last thing I need is a manual no one in my group will be using. I'll be the last member with a players.
Otherwise Alternity works just fine.

Mithroch · Post by **Mithroch** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:03 am

All you ever needed for 3.5 or 3.0 was the core books. That doesn't mean that they can't put more stuff out. People chose to play with the added options... and purchase (or pirate) the extra books. I've never understood why people complain about all of the extra books but then buy them anyway. What's more... these same people are willing pay for campaign settings and the fuck-ton of additional books that go with it without a second thought.

BasharOfTheAges · Post by **BasharOfTheAges** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:43 pm

The only books i've ever actually bought were the BESM d20 core books because I was running a game and needed a set. The 33 3.5E pdfs i have are good enough when my gaming club has a hard copy of just about every 3.5E book and at least 1 or 2 other copies of each book float around amongst the regular members. With all that purchased, i don't see why they'd buy 4e. If they do, i suppose i could buy all those 3.5e manuals from them on the cheep in a few months. I got a lot of random OGL 3rd ed. supplement books that way (for pennies on the dollar).

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:07 pm

Roll to see if I'm getting drunk.

Sukunai · Post by **Sukunai** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:40 pm

Mithroch wrote:All you ever needed for 3.5 or 3.0 was the core books. That doesn't mean that they can't put more stuff out. People chose to play with the added options... and purchase (or pirate) the extra books. I've never understood why people complain about all of the extra books but then buy them anyway. What's more... these same people are willing pay for campaign settings and the fuck-ton of additional books that go with it without a second thought.

That all sounds utterly logical.

Then your players start buying all the friggin extra books. They show up, and get in a snit or moody when you won't include them. Somehow they think just because it was officially printed it all has to be just fine.

The moment you give in you're trapped. They of course don't seem stressed out if YOU can't afford them, and they don't seem to realize if you don't have them, you can't learn them. And if you don't have a grasp of them, you can't accommodate them properly in the game.

And then there's just the simple hassle of having them all present at the game.
And even if you ARE dumb enough to buy them all, they don't conveniently get lighter, making taking them to the game a real treat.

It's a lot more complicated than just saying "sorry guys, we're only using the 3 core manuals in my game". It easily some how just ends up not being as "fun" playing in YOUR game any more. Suddenly they want to play in Bob's game, because he doesn't mind using everything in printe under creation.

Of course my reply to one too many weird out of the ordinary extremely rare sounding peculiar feat wielding PCs out of some bloody manual I don't own, is to just invent a few off the cuff nasty surprises to which no official print will have ever heard of.
"What the hell sort of spell was THAT?!!"
Neat eh, I guess your player has never witnessed that one before.
"What manual is it from?, I want to check it out".
My manual, and no, you can't check it out. But if you kill the guy that just cast it, you get to find out.

Mithroch · Post by **Mithroch** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:38 am

Sukunai wrote:
Mithroch wrote:Mith said stuff... including "fuck-ton" cause he likes it better than "ass-load" though maybe "metric fuck-ton" would have been more potent
That all sounds utterly logical.

Then your players start buying all the friggin extra books. They show up, and get in a snit or moody when you won't include them. Somehow they think just because it was officially printed it all has to be just fine.

The moment you give in you're trapped. They of course don't seem stressed out if YOU can't afford them, and they don't seem to realize if you don't have them, you can't learn them. And if you don't have a grasp of them, you can't accommodate them properly in the game.

And then there's just the simple hassle of having them all present at the game.
And even if you ARE dumb enough to buy them all, they don't conveniently get lighter, making taking them to the game a real treat.

It's a lot more complicated than just saying "sorry guys, we're only using the 3 core manuals in my game". It easily some how just ends up not being as "fun" playing in YOUR game any more. Suddenly they want to play in Bob's game, because he doesn't mind using everything in printe under creation.

No... it really isn't any more complicated. If players are leaving over this... they aren't very good players to begin with... let "Bob" have them. It's always easy to find players... especially newbs that you can mold to your style of gaming. Good DMs however are hard to come by.

Sukunai wrote: Of course my reply to one too many weird out of the ordinary extremely rare sounding peculiar feat wielding PCs out of some bloody manual I don't own, is to just invent a few off the cuff nasty surprises to which no official print will have ever heard of.
"What the hell sort of spell was THAT?!!"
Neat eh, I guess your player has never witnessed that one before.
"What manual is it from?, I want to check it out".
My manual, and no, you can't check it out. But if you kill the guy that just cast it, you get to find out.

Yes yes yes... the best thing a DM can do is let his players have their toys... and then break them. If you know your player's tendencies well enough... you can even make it look like they screwed up... not that you were out to get them.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:54 pm

"I cast Magic Missile...I'm attacking the Darkness."