When: Mondays, 21:00 EST, #amv-review in synirc
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Main Video:
Bonus:
AMV-Review wrote:[21:02] <PaperIsland> Hey everybody
[21:02] <PaperIsland> Alright, so what were people's general impressions of this video?
[21:02] <godix> It's like a motivational posters animated.
[21:02] *** mode/#amv-review [+o PaperIsland] by ChanServ
[21:02] <Hunter> or a informative tape for the suicide help hotline
[21:03] <Rathisponge> It didnt strike me as a trailer.
[21:03] <godix> No, I didn't get a trailer feel from it. I didn't even realize it was supposed to be a trailer until I read the vid notes
[21:03] <quadir> the only trailer aspect of this video is the length, and abrupt end
[21:03] <PaperIsland> Did anyone feel it was almost like a commercial?
[21:04] <Hunter> I did
[21:04] <inthesto> I didn't.
[21:04] <godix> One of those Church of Latter Day saints ones?
[21:04] <quadir> wasn't this song used in a car commercial recently?
[21:04] <Hunter> the trailer aspect only shows up after watching it many times with that in mind
[21:04] <NerdStrudel> is the vid in the topic what we're talkin' about?
[21:04] <PaperIsland> Yes
[21:05] <PaperIsland> So what do people feel that this video was trying to accomplish, as there is no movie it's actually a trailer for?
[21:05] <NerdStrudel> well.. It was trying to be a trailer for a made up movie
[21:05] <NerdStrudel> it seems
[21:05] <NerdStrudel> or at least like.. a series or something
[21:05] <Hunter> trying is the operative word
[21:05] <NerdStrudel> I thought it succeeded to a point
[21:05] <inthesto> I don't think it's supposed to be a trailer for anything
[21:06] <quadir> it's true it almost played out like a spotless mind trailer, sortof where a typical story is told from start to finish in the trailer itself, and the movie goes into more depth
[21:06] <Hunter> I think its supposed to be a trailer, its just not a trailer in the way we are used to it
[21:06] <Rathisponge> I believe it was attempting to introduce the general story of the anime to someone who has not seen it
[21:06] <Rathisponge> I agree quadir
[21:06] <quadir> inthesto: it has trailer credits at the end, and is in the trailer category on the org
[21:06] <godix> I thought it succeeded in retooling the anime to tell his own story which was dramatically different than the animes. I also thought he presented his story clearly. As a trailer, well I just didn't think it felt like a trailer
[21:06] <inthesto> Yeah, what godix said.
[21:06] <Hunter> Rath: the real story or a made up one?
[21:07] <Rathisponge> oh I am not sure, I haven't seen the anime myself
[21:07] <quadir> Rathisponge: I'd have to disagree, it really doesn't follow the story of the anime at all
[21:07] <godix> Rathisponge: It isn't the animes story. It isn't anywhere close to the animes story. If you haven't seen the anime and think this is the animes story that says something about how well he recast it though.
[21:07] <NerdStrudel> I could tell it was a trailer without the description and stuff
[21:07] <NerdStrudel> but.. yah idk
[21:07] <Hunter> quadir: thanks
[21:07] <Rathisponge> ah well there you have it
[21:07] <pankyy> I'm sorry, will be back in 30'
[21:08] <NerdStrudel> It's kinda like.. an AU commercial for an anime vid
[21:08] <NerdStrudel> or something
[21:08] <quadir> the anime is choosing to rewind time to try and create a "perfect" situation, whereas this video is more groundhog day, no matter what you do, time rewinds and you're back at square 1 (or moving on, this case)
[21:08] <Kionon> I'll be blunt.
[21:08] <Kionon> I didn't enjoy it.
[21:08] <godix> One thing I didn't like is the ways he did the words with a faint copy of the words in the background. It was fine that he did it but the final scene where he had the faint words be different than the more noticable words didn't work.
[21:08] <inthesto> quadir: I think the idea behidn the video is different from what you said
[21:08] <Hunter> quadir: I thought it was more of 'you try to kill yourself and you are warped back in time'
[21:09] <quadir> isn't that groundhog day?
[21:09] <inthesto> The video is kind of about the denial of free will
[21:09] <Hunter> quadir: in a very loose sense, I suppose
[21:09] <NerdStrudel> that's what groundhog day turns into
[21:09] <Kionon> It bored me.
[21:09] <PaperIsland> I liked the faint outline because I thought it was like the character's going one way but the world is going the other
[21:09] <Kionon> I usually love Douggie's stuff.
[21:09] <quadir> in groundhod day the guy realizes that no matter he does, he wakes up and it's all undone
[21:09] <Kionon> But this was...
[21:09] <pankyy> Oh, I'll be around some time, and then go, and then come back
[21:09] <Kionon> eh.
[21:09] <PaperIsland> But I could see how it was a little distracting
[21:09] <quadir> I guess this is a bit different
[21:10] <quadir> since this is dark whereas groundhog day was more "fun"
[21:10] <NerdStrudel> it has the futility aspect like groundhog day did
[21:10] <inthesto> The video is about how the world denies your suicide
[21:10] <Kionon> Talking about dark, he overdarkened it.
[21:10] <Kionon> I thought it was a bad stylistic choice.
[21:10] <Hunter> I found the words themselves kind of distracting
[21:10] <Kionon> I actually have the dvd ripped right now, so I know how much he altered it.
[21:10] <Kionon> ...as did I. They did not flow well.
[21:10] <pankyy> This actually changed the anime's plot
[21:11] <Hunter> the same story could have been portrayed to me without the words
[21:11] <PaperIsland> How so Hunter?
[21:11] <pankyy> Also, is it me, or there is some kind of contrast overuse?
[21:11] <quadir> hm, the darker look I think gave the anime a different feel to the animation
[21:11] <Kionon> I agree. The words were unecessarily overlayed.
[21:11] <quadir> it just seemed to have more character
[21:11] <Kionon> pankyy: I just said that
[21:11] <Kionon> I have the DVD ripped, and yes, he overdarkened it
[21:12] <godix> See I didn't get the feeling she was leaping in time. I got the feeling she just kept failing in her suicide attempts. I think unless you know the anime is about leaping in time a viewer wouldn't get that idea from the vid
[21:12] <pankyy> Whoops, sorry, didn't read that
[21:12] <Hunter> Paperisland: well, since its an instrumental video you have to read into the scenes themselves to get a feel for what is happening anyway, and the words take away from the scenes to me
[21:12] <pankyy> godix: thinking the same
[21:12] <pankyy> And he didn't mean to 'confuse you', but to give you that idea
[21:12] <Hunter> godix: agreed
[21:12] <Kionon> godix: I thought that was what the trailer was about, and I own the movie.
[21:12] <pankyy> 'He' even said that she failed in her attempts
[21:13] <quadir> Hunter: in another scence maybe it's a lack of faith in the viewer. the video probably works without the words.. if you've never seen the anime or know anything about it
[21:13] <Kionon> This was entirely an AU video.
[21:13] <Kionon> The original context of the movie means nothing to this video.
[21:13] <quadir> sense, even
[21:13] <godix> I think the words were needed if for no other reason than to inform people who know the series that hey, this video isn't following the series
[21:13] <Kionon> This is a reimagining for a different movie entirely.
[21:13] <Hunter> quadir: well as I haven't seen the movie, just other amvs, it works for me
[21:14] <quadir> also.. how about that opening shot eh?
[21:14] <quadir> I really enjoyed that
[21:14] <PaperIsland> I agree godix. I was wondering if the actual movie was about suicide.
[21:14] <quadir> it really turned the whole thing on it's head
[21:14] <pankyy> But, even if you said that it wasn't about time-leaping as it should - or not - be, when she was going to get smashed by the train she 'dissapeared'?
[21:14] <pankyy> why*
[21:14] <quadir> I mean he had to say /something/ to her there
[21:14] <godix> just another failed attempt.
[21:14] <quadir> the whole suicide thing seems to be a reaction to this one event
[21:15] <Hunter_> quadir: the time freeze with the guy in the beginning? or her trying to drown in the tub?
[21:15] <PaperIsland> Yeah, I liked that, it also sets a slow pace that the video can build from
[21:15] <quadir> godix: I think you hit on one of my irks about this video, I got drawn into the text that seemed to go from suicides to realizing life kept on going, and you just had to live it... yet he kept repeating suicide attempts in the footage.
[21:15] <godix> What I got as the 'story' was the guy dumps her and goes away. She gets depressed and tries killing herself repeatedly, and failing. Meanwhile the words are there to act as a motivational poster
[21:16] <pankyy> Also, when it says 'she has to cope with her life', why does it show those scenes where she escapes from him? Past?
[21:16] <quadir> Hunter_: the orange hair guy
[21:16] <quadir> Hunter_: it's the basis for the AU timeline I think
[21:16] <pankyy> Or even present?
[21:16] <godix> pankyy: I'd assume those were flashbacks
[21:16] <quadir> it's like the movie starts with a tramatic event, and the whole movie is just her learning to cope with it
[21:17] <quadir> although the text seems to support that more then the video
[21:17] <pankyy> So, at the final of the amv, she finishes killing herself
[21:17] <pankyy> ' '
[21:17] <godix> quadir: True, the text is needed to pull the idea together. But considering how much he recast the series I think he did a very good job of making stuff appear like suicide attempts when they weren't.
[21:17] <quadir> Kionon: the text shadow we could of done without, hell the text could of been done better as a whole, although I won't say it's horrible.
[21:18] <PaperIsland> It seems like the video goes from crowd and group shots to more and more shots of just her, like she is finding herself in a sea of people
[21:18] <godix> The ending bothers me. It's like "Life is worth living. Lets end on her jumping off a huge ass building'
[21:18] <quadir> godix: I'm not convinced there's no time reset here groundhog day style
[21:18] <quadir> godix: at which point they are failed attempts only because she keeps waking up
[21:18] <godix> quadir: I don't think there was intentionally one there. I think the idea comes from knowing the source.
[21:18] <pankyy> I didn't like the shadow's font, compared to the normal word's font, although I can't say the same font would do any good.
[21:19] <Kionon> Honestly, I felt no connection whatsoever.
[21:19] <Kionon> I only understand the flow by studying it like some sort of alegebra equation.
[21:19] <quadir> godix: yeah perhaps it the jump was a climax in the movie and certainly in so many videos, but it really feels wrong here
[21:19] <pankyy> Kionon: I've never made this kind of amv's, and that's why it's hard to me also
[21:19] <pankyy> I think an anime can't be deformed to another idea, unless it's comedy purposes
[21:20] <quadir> Kionon: really? it sounds like you're too attached to the source
[21:20] <Kionon> Honestly, I am already back to editing my own video. This doesn't even inspire to really keep discussing it.
[21:20] <Hunter> quadir: I felt all the suicide attempts with 'feel good' messages in the text was out of place
[21:20] <Kionon> quadir: not at all, has absolutely nothing to do with the original context.
[21:20] <pankyy> And I'm not saying it because I'm a super-fan of the anime, I like it, but if you know the anime, it won't feel like it
[21:20] <quadir> Kionon: with no deeper known context to draw, it appears shallow and devoid of meaning
[21:20] <PaperIsland> I thought this would be your type of video kionon, all about heart
[21:20] <pankyy> quadir: that's what happens when you know the source
[21:20] <quadir> when really all he can do is string together a more superficial surface AU story
[21:20] <Kionon> Heart? I feel nothing. It's a trailer. For a movie that doesn't exist and I'm not interested in seeing.
[21:21] <pankyy> I once watched another tgwltt here, and I thought the whole story was about a love issue
[21:21] <Kionon> If it came on TV, I would not be inclined to spend my $7 on a ticket.
[21:21] <godix> I think the video would have been far better if it ended on one of the happy scenes of the anime. A kinda she accepted life and moved on type of thing
[21:21] <pankyy> Before I watched the movie, obviously
[21:21] <Kionon> That's what we need to look at, I think.
[21:21] <Hunter> godix: it would have been far better had there been ANY happy scenes
[21:21] <quadir> godix: yeah.
[21:21] <Kionon> Does Douggie accomplish the goal of a trailer: to make you see the movie?
[21:21] <Kionon> I say no.
[21:21] <Kionon> I don't have any desire to see this movie.
[21:22] <quadir> it's also coldly realistic, which is completely different then most fantasy stories
[21:22] <Kionon> The trailer was not compelling enough.
[21:22] <godix> Hunter: Well I can understand why there's no happy scenes in the first 3/4 of the video.
[21:22] <quadir> assuming orange hair is her bf, and he dumps her and she's devastated
[21:22] <quadir> most stories would be about her making up with him somehow, or finding a new, better, love
[21:22] <pankyy> It /may/ make you want to watch the movie, but it will give you the wrong idea, and you will say wtf
[21:22] <Hunter> godix: even with all the 'it'll turn out alright' messages through it all?
[21:22] <Kionon> pankky: No, no.
[21:22] <quadir> and yet the video doesn't really give that at all. she tries to kill herself repeativly. eventually she gets over it.
[21:22] <godix> Kio: No, he doesn't accomplish his goal to make me see the movie. But did he acomplish the goal of using the source to tell his own story that's very different from the sources? Yes, I think he succeeded there
[21:22] <Kionon> This is NOT a trailer for Toki wo.
[21:23] <Kionon> This is NOT a trailer for something else.
[21:23] <Kionon> areg
[21:23] <Kionon> This IS a trailer for something else.
[21:23] <Kionon> This is a trailer for a movie inside Douggie's mind.
[21:23] <quadir> Kionon: I think you're the only one arguing that at all
[21:23] <quadir> I think we all know that
[21:23] <Kionon> I'd say his trailer doesn't make it seem like it's worth the price of admission.
[21:23] <quadir> have since the start?
[21:23] <pankyy> But, now that I watched a part again, I must say he's pretty good fitting some scenes with another
[21:24] <quadir> Kionon: okay, great, move on.
[21:24] <Kionon> There's not much to move on to.
[21:24] <PaperIsland> If it's a trailer, could it end on a completely happy note and give away the resolution to the drama?
[21:24] <Kionon> That was my point.
[21:24] <godix> I will point out, most org trailers are NOT about making you want to see the series. Oftentimes it's for comedy or action but it isn't to actually be a series trailer.
[21:24] <Kionon> The video is technically excellent, although I quibble with the overdarkening, I understand it. Same with the words.
[21:25] <Hunter> PaperIsland: not a completely happy note per say, but could include something happy other than the text
[21:25] <Kionon> I don't have much problem with the style or the execution.
[21:25] <PaperIsland> I felt like the leap is happy, because she's no longer afraid
[21:25] <Hunter> Paper: happy while leaping off a tall building?
[21:25] <PaperIsland> I thought it was into a pool
[21:25] <Kionon> So it comes down to purpose.
[21:26] <Kionon> It's a pool.
[21:26] <pankyy> Ah, this might be somehow out of context, but can someone tell me how in the movie a shoe dropped the girl to the floor?
[21:26] <godix> I have some technical issues with his overcorrection of the source. And the words didn't work all that well, especially at the end when the shadow words were different than the regular words
[21:26] <Kionon> She jumps off a diving board.
[21:26] <PaperIsland> So it's taking the leap of death and turning it into the leap of joy, in my eyes
[21:27] <Hunter> the way he fades it out at the end, you can't really tell it's a pool
[21:27] <godix> I think I've said all I really intend to about this video. I admire it for being AU and doing such a good job at it that people who haven't seen the anime don't realize it's AU. I admire it for doing something unusual. Overall I didn't actually like it though, way to much of a motivational poster feel to it for my tastes.
[21:27] <quadir> Kionon: while I don't think you're giving anything else a chance here, refusing to step out of your own shoes, I'll humour you and RAISE you. Why is it boring? Why does it fail to connect?
[21:28] <pankyy> This video is trying to tell you not to make the same mistake she did.
[21:28] * Kionon watches again.
[21:28] <quadir> _relate_ it to the video. saying 'it doesnt have heart' or 'I wouldnt see this movie' doesn't tell me anything about how the content of the video works or doesn't work
[21:28] <Hunter> pankyy: did she really make a mistake?
[21:28] <pankyy> You shouldn't pick a strange thing from the floor and teletransportate in time because you didn't make your homework
[21:29] <pankyy> but that part isn't showed there
[21:29] <quadir> pankyy: is it? why does it start with heartbreak then?
[21:29] <pankyy> She did a mistake, indeed
[21:29] <pankyy> Both in the movie and in the trailer
[21:29] <quadir> pankyy: I think we've all really nailed down that this doesn't follow the anime at all
[21:29] <Kionon> quadir: i find the text entirely distracting
[21:29] <pankyy> Or well, it wasn't a 'mistake'
[21:29] <Kionon> It pulls me out of the flow.
[21:29] <pankyy> She wanted to suicide because a boy dumped her, not worth it.
[21:29] <Kionon> That's a content choice that effects the emotional impact.
[21:30] <quadir> Kionon: and yet as a trailer it also strings together scenes that have huge gaps inbetween
[21:30] <Kionon> Hold on.
[21:30] <Hunter> quadir: isn't that what a trailer is?
[21:30] <quadir> it reinforces for the viewer that time is passing and you're not being told the whole story here
[21:30] <Kionon> going through again
[21:30] <pankyy> Are you telling heartbreak the thing that starts over the final?
[21:30] <pankyy> calling*
[21:31] <Kionon> I just don't see her actually trying to kill herself anywhere in the scenes.
[21:31] <pankyy> back in some minutes
[21:31] <pankyy> !
[21:31] <quadir> Kionon: like a wilfull decision?
[21:32] <Kionon> Honestly, I think the scene choices don't adequately reflect the establishing a storyline of her actually trying to kill herself and failing.
[21:32] <Kionon> Yes, a willfull decision.
[21:32] <quadir> there you go, there's so meat
[21:32] <Kionon> Even divorcing my knowledge of the original context
[21:32] <Kionon> there is only accidents here
[21:32] <Hunter> the scene of her in the tub wouldn't be a willful decision?
[21:32] <quadir> well...
[21:32] <quadir> watching it again though the first two suicides are wilful
[21:32] <Kionon> no attempt to put herself in harms way, and no attempt by any person to stop her
[21:33] <godix> I think Kio can't get past knowing what the scenes are in the anime so can't see them as willful suicide.
[21:33] <quadir> trying to hold her breath until she passes out and drowns in the bathtub
[21:33] <Kionon> I do not see that.
[21:33] <quadir> and just getting on her bike and letting it ride down the hill to her death
[21:33] <quadir> godix: I usually think kio is like that but I think she has a point here, just isn't expressing it past blinking bold letters.
[21:34] <Kionon> I don't feel the facial expressions, background, etc add up to that.
[21:34] <godix> Having her sister stop her from jumping out a window
[21:34] <Kionon> That one is the most blantant one godix, yes.
[21:34] <quadir> godix: eh by that point the video's failed a bit though
[21:34] <Kionon> But I feel it comes too late.
[21:34] <Kionon> It needed to be earlier.
[21:34] <quadir> godix: imo the window jump is way too late, she's already supposed to be "coping"
[21:34] <Kionon> I'd accept that as willful if it was the first or second suicide.
[21:34] <godix> I think he did as well as can be expected considering the source. and he did well enough I got what he was going after the first time I saw the vid.
[21:35] <quadir> the bike is pretty decisive though
[21:35] <PaperIsland> I think it would diminish the impact of this video if she were able to quickly deal with depression
[21:35] <godix> However the text was needed to pull it together, and considering this was AU I see nothing wrong with that
[21:35] * quadir nods to godix.
[21:35] <PaperIsland> If you've been around people who are seriously depressed near the point of suicide, they don't just snap out of it usually
[21:35] <quadir> I was just interested in why kio might find it boring
[21:35] <Kionon> no, it isn't. Look at her expression. That is not a "I am going to kill myself" face. That is a "oh fuck I'm going to die HEEEEEEEEELP" face.
[21:35] <quadir> and maybe that's because the story IS boring
[21:35] <PaperIsland> it takes time
[21:36] <quadir> so it's AU, so he used text to make it work. As a fan of video editing, I find AU facinating.
[21:36] <quadir> but on a really bare level, a "show this before Juno, in a theater" it's boring.
[21:36] <godix> Kio: It's been said that most people who jump out of a building and survive say they regretted jumping out of the building before they hit the ground. So her face could be an 'oh fuck, I don't REALLY want to do this but it's too late to stop' thing
[21:36] <Kionon> AU is nice, but this failed.
[21:36] <quadir> she gets dumped, she tries to commit suicide, and then moves on.
[21:36] <quadir> Kionon: your missing words there.
[21:36] <Kionon> godix: Eh. I still don't buy that.
[21:37] <quadir> Kionon: It succeed briliantly in most ways
[21:37] <PaperIsland> I agree that there's a problem with it as a trailer, it's more like a commercial to me
[21:37] <quadir> Kionon: the only problem is the story itself is uninteresting
[21:37] <Hunter> quadir: I don't think I ever see a true 'moving on'
[21:37] <quadir> she doesn't make up with the boy
[21:37] <quadir> she doesn't get a new boy
[21:37] <godix> I admire it as a well done AU. As a trailer I've already said I think it failed.
[21:37] <quadir> she doesn't achieve anything other then moving on from depression
[21:37] <Kionon> The story could be made to be interesting.
[21:37] <Kionon> The concept is nice.
[21:37] <quadir> Hunter: it's in the text.
[21:37] <Kionon> What fails is the storytelling, not the story itself.
[21:37] <Hunter> quadir: but not in the scenes
[21:38] <quadir> also, as the main plot element being the orange hair boy dumping her
[21:38] <Hunter> I've already said you should be able to read the story of an instrumental video by the scenes, the text and the scenes don't match up
[21:38] <quadir> her avoidance scenes during her "cope" are sortof interesting mid-video
[21:38] <godix> hunter: I'd agree towards the end. Towards the beginning I think the scenes work fine.
[21:39] <PaperIsland> Hunter: Are you saying text is never worthwhile then? What if it's not necessary but still adds something?
[21:39] <Hunter> Paperisland: I didn't say that. I said the text and scenes here didn't match up. I do think it can add something at times, just not here
[21:39] <Kionon> Once again, I look at this as I would any trailer, and I have to ask Douggie's purpose. If it was to adequately represent a movie trailer, then it didn't get there. I didn't make me want to buy a ticket. It did not do so because the scene choices did not seem to match the text, and there was no sense of urgency, no sense of drama. Oh, hay, I saw the trailer. If the trailer is that frakking slow, I think I'll pass out in my chair for the m
[21:39] <Kionon> ovie!
[21:40] <godix> Text is like any other effect. Sometimes it helps the video, sometimes it hurts it. In this case I think it helped.
[21:40] <Kionon> Suspense. It lacked suspense.
[21:40] <PaperIsland> I thought the text was clever in personifying the world, like the world is an active force not a passive environment
[21:40] <quadir> I have to agree there. ultimately we seem to all see a great potential with the method and medium here
[21:41] <Hunter> agreed
[21:41] <Kionon> I dshould have a desire to "know more." I have no such desire.
[21:41] <quadir> and the fact that it's not executed BADLY means that I'm that much more irked at it not being even better then it is
[21:41] <Hunter> there's nothing to 'know more' of, we see it all here
[21:41] <Kionon> Hunter: EXACTLY.
[21:41] <quadir> even that said, I have to say it's an achievement, I'm sick and tired of leapt through time vids, and yet I still rather enjoyed experiencing this one.
[21:41] <Hunter> thats really the base reason it fails as a trailer
[21:41] <Kionon> Why pay for the movie, when the damn trailer told me everything, and wasn't even exciting.
[21:42] <godix> I view it as a short 1:38 long story, complete in itself. Which is why I think the ended should have been her acceptance and moving on.
[21:42] <PaperIsland> Yeah... I'll agree with that. Maybe it would be better longer and not as a trailer.
[21:42] <quadir> you're dealing with a catch22
[21:42] <Kionon> He calls it a movie trailer.
[21:42] <quadir> instrumental vids work best short, before you completely space out
[21:42] <Hunter> wrong choice of words, and thats what gets us off from the point of the video, I think
[21:42] <godix> quadir: I'll agree there. When I saw a leapt through time video was picked this week I wanted to punch someone. But it was a pleasent surprise in that it's fairly original
[21:42] <Kionon> It fails as a movie trailer. Maybe suceeds as another type of video.
[21:43] <quadir> short videos tend to lack enough depth, so the trailer space with the text allows for the scene jumping to be accepted at face value
[21:43] <godix> Kionon: I don't think anyone is arguing different. I've already said I don't view it as a trailer.
[21:43] <Hunter> so if its not a trailer, what is it then?
[21:43] <Kionon> godix: fair enough, I'm just saying Douggie does.
[21:43] <Kionon> It's an AU storytelling vid.
[21:43] <Kionon> Even then, there is not enough action.
[21:44] <Kionon> But I like the concept.
[21:44] <PaperIsland> But we know it's purpose can't be to make us watch anything, because there's nothing to watch
[21:44] <Hunter> there is no resolution either, unless you're following the words
[21:44] <Kionon> Paper: Not necessarily.
[21:44] <PaperIsland> So it must be just taking on that form, but intending something else
[21:44] <Kionon> You can fake trailers. We did it all the time in broadcast class.
[21:45] <PaperIsland> You can fake them, but what did you really get out of the trailer
[21:45] <PaperIsland> it wasn't seeing the movie
[21:45] <PaperIsland> it was enjoying the moment of suspense or what not
[21:45] <Kionon> Is there something wrong with enjoying the moment of suspense?
[21:45] <Hunter> Paperisland: in this case I ask: what suspense?
[21:45] <Kionon> There is art in a good trailer.
[21:45] <PaperIsland> I didn't say there was anything wrong
[21:45] <PaperIsland> I think we should think more about the suspense then the cost of a ticket
[21:46] <PaperIsland> And I know you already touched on it
[21:46] <quadir> Kionon: not everyone thinks DaCoolGohan's vids are Action Character Profile Drama Serious Sentimental Romances
[21:46] <Hunter> quadir: you forgot comedy
[21:46] <quadir> self-labels don't always mean everything to how people will accept your work
[21:46] <Kionon> I've never even seen a video by him.
[21:46] <Kionon> While this is true, Douggie is one who often accomplishes his vision.
[21:46] <Kionon> He's one of my favorite editors.
[21:47] <Hunter> he accomplished it, just mislabeled it to his audience
[21:47] <quadir> being stuck on the trailer label
[21:47] <quadir> meh
[21:47] <PaperIsland> I wonder if this trailer would have been better ending on a moment of ambiguity, "is she going to try to kill herself again or not?"
[21:47] <PaperIsland> Instead of anything happy
[21:47] <quadir> some great trailers in the commercial space failed brilliantly as trailers, and yet they are such memorable, funny, interesting pieces of art
[21:47] <quadir> same with commercials
[21:47] <PaperIsland> A happy ending would point it less towards trailer I think
[21:47] <quadir> you don't necesarily see the commercials that sold the most product at sundance
[21:48] <quadir> it's a medium, and you do with it what you will
[21:49] <Kionon> This is where godix is right about editor bias.
[21:49] <Kionon> "Well, *I* would have done *that* instead." And we can never seem to get away from that, even if we only hear it in our heads.
[21:50] <Kionon> Worse if you have the source, "I think I'd have chosen *that* scene, and not *this* one."
[21:50] <PaperIsland> Alright, well I think we've discussed the major points. Last comments?
[21:50] <quadir> PaperIsland: yeah, I wasn't happy with the ending either, and I'm not an editor
[21:50] <godix> Eh, I moved away from it. I've already said I admire this for a creative AU even though there are things about it that I think would be better done differently. Ditching the trailer idea and adding an 'acceptance of life' scene at the end being the primary thing
[21:50] <quadir> I liked the video, it won't be memorable in the long run but it's a great piece of AU work
[21:51] <Hunter> good video, bad trailer.
[21:51] <Rathisponge> I thought the video was very well done.
[21:51] <godix> Well done, nice creativity. Just not the type of thing I'd like though. To happy happy life is good rah rah crap.
[21:51] <Kionon> Love the concept, think it's doable, think the scene choice failed to tell the story that the words said they were supposed to. Technically proficient, it failed to move me. An outstanding stab at a rarely attempted genre.
[21:51] <Rathisponge> It wasnt my cup of tea either.
[21:52] <PaperIsland> I enjoyed it. I think the intention is a little confusing though.
[21:52] <Hunter> And remember kids: just because she couldn't commit suicide, doesn't mean you still can't!
