American children continue to fall behind in education

[krzT]

I think that a student should be allowed to take classes in high school that directly coorelates with their future career. Those who don't have a career can take a random assortment of classes, in order to find out what kind of carrer they might like. Right now, I could care less about certain classes that have no point in me taking. X_X But I have to have them in order to graduate, so I'm forced.

Honestly, that's what college is for, and it's something I don't really believe most high schoolers are ready for. You seem like a bright kid who looks out for his future, but even as a senior at TJHSST (which is public btw...not private like you mentioned before ^^; ), I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to study or what I was even thinking about majoring in in college. Luckily, I managed to get into a huge school like Cornell, where the university motto "Any student, any study" really rings true, but I didn't even settle down in a major until my sophomore year.

High school, theoretical, should be preparing students for the responsibilities they'll need at the university level. This is theoretically of course, and it doesn't necessarily follow through all the time. But there is a very good reason why introductory biology or English is forced into a curriculum, regardless of whether or not the student is interested in continuing their education in those fields. I, for one, was so ridiculously happy to be done with my science courses once hitting college (thank the Lord for AP credit ), but I don't at all regret having to take intro physics, chemistry, or calculus. These courses may not be interesting all the time (or ever for that matter), but I HIGHLY doubt that you wouldn't draw any sort of lesson from them. They are pretty necessary in you functioning in society as a knowledgeable adult. I have to admit, that if biology weren't required in high school, I never would have taken it. But it allows me to know more about what's going on, current events-wise, and actually make conversation with others without sounding like a bumbling idiot. Same goes for literature and language courses. Your mind will be enriched with what you learn in school, whether you hate your teacher or not.

That's not to say that there aren't horrible/unmotivated teachers/professors though. Trust me...I've had my share of those >_>

I think overall, "good" education requires such a delicate balance of so many things (good teachers, motivated students, encouraging family environments, etc) and it's so hard to achieve that balance, so it becomes a frustrating process for everyone involved.

[Otohiko]

On that subject, what I think is really needed is a balance. In high school, I think there should be both a certain level of required choices and a degree of freedom to choose your subjects.

For one, I liked doing lots of things, but by grade 12 I was certainly set on going into humanities. If they made me take maths and sciences in grade 12, I would be really screwed. I would be worse off without math in grade 9 or 10, of course. And being able to take 3 English classes in grade 12 instead of maths certainly set me up for doing an arts/humanities degree in college - math would be a waste for me at that point. I did take finite because I was required to choose at least one math course on that level to graduate, and did well, but I'm skeptical whether that really was even neccesary. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.

So, I lean more towards choice in that. For kids who don't know what they want, well, the fact that you have take something is enough. I'm sure most would choose fairly 'mainstream' subjects anyway if they weren't sure. I think in grade 9 and 10, mandatory courses should be in the majority. By grade 11-12, the school system has a high probability of screwing some talented students out of college. Which is why I think it needs to pull back with mandatory subjects a bit.

I see what you mean there with "not regretting" KrzT, but well...
Back when I was going through orientation as a TA last year, they stressed one point: "NEVER tell students 'oh, grades are not important, it's what you learn that matters!' Grades are IMPORTANT.'"
I've never cared for grades in a competitive sense, but for me - and not just me - grades are really a matter of financial survival. I would never be able to go to college if I graduated with less than an A-, period. That actually applies to a lot of kids nowadays, unfortunately. To me, hard vs. easy courses, in a lot of cases, are simply mismatches between student abilities/needs and what they're getting from the class/teacher. And if a mismatch like that results in a deserving candidate for college doing worse than they should be - well, that's really a failure for the system. Which is why I think the system should pull back as far as possible by the time students get to their last year of HS, and let those who know what they're doing do their best, while those who don't can simply roll with the obvious.

I seriously admire people who do/like math by the way.
Math was permanently and irreversibly ruined for me by an absolutely horrible teacher I had. I'm still very good at basic math, but my interest in anything above that has simply been killed forever. Not even the best math teacher would probably be able to turn me back onto math nowadays... not that they have to, of course.

[JaddziaDax]

in my (public) highschool we were given more choices as a jr/sr to take courses we wanted even if they were still in a genre... we got choices on what english courses we wanted, but english courses were still required...

of course to get into college one had to take the required courses to get in.


and some colleges still force you to take general ed classes you might not need as well just so they can fill some quotas on student numbers..

[inthesto]

I, for one, was so ridiculously happy to be done with my science courses once hitting college (thank the Lord for AP credit Very Happy), but I don't at all regret having to take intro physics, chemistry, or calculus. These courses may not be interesting all the time (or ever for that matter), but I HIGHLY doubt that you wouldn't draw any sort of lesson from them. They are pretty necessary in you functioning in society as a knowledgeable adult.

I can't agree with that one. I'm not sure I've ever found a use outside the classroom for solving integrals through u-substitution, knowing Kreb's cycle by heart, or knowing the difference between the different types of chemical bonds. Of course, make note that I'm not planning in pursuing a career in any of those fields.

The way I figure it, those courses aren't really there to drill knowledge into your brain for future use so much as test and strain your mental capabilities. A physicist doesn't give a crap about cellular respiration, but being forced to learn it helps you to figure out the underlying process beneath each step, which could ultimately be more helpful when trying to figure out friction or whatever it is those people do. And of course nobody actually cares about the green light in The Great Gatsby, but writing an essay on it helps you learn how to read between the lines of a literary work beyond "society sux lol".

At least, that's what makes sense in my don't-even-bother-to-learn-the-formulas mind.

Math was permanently and irreversibly ruined for me by an absolutely horrible teacher I had.

Same with myself and biology. And now that I'm a psychology student, I'm really regretting letting one individual so adversely affect my academic career, when it's so damn relevant to my field of study.

If only I had been a soccer player. :roll:

[CodeZTM]

Meh.

At my high school, we have the horrible class choices. We have four required classes. Math, science, history and english. WE have a choice between the grade level class or the AP version of that class. We also have 5 classes that are required to take before we can graduate. These are: PE, Art, Health, Driver's Education, and Speech.

We have 7 classes per day, with strict guidelines on what we can take and where we can take it.

So that leaves three classes open for us to choose. But, one-two of those have to be one of those five required classes each year.

So that's left me the honor of taking a digital media class for my 7th class each year, and this year taking yearbook/journalism, as I've already gotten my five required out of hte way.

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As for the college is for career, high school prepares you for it.. . I think that's ridiculous.

i don't know about you guys, but my middle school expierence was AWFUL. We learned absolutely nothing new. That's four wasted years. Why not turn those into the technical "high school" years, teaching students how to learn.

I personally believe that student would do much better. This way, they can work towards their carreer, or take classes that would teach them work-environment techniques if they don't plan on attending college.

I mean, I've been taking enough AP & College classes so that I can actually enroll as a college Sophomore. I think that more students could accomplish more in their lives and possible get into better colleges.

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I'd also like to point out that high school counselors are another important aspect of gettting into higher education.

My school's counselor got fired last year after an incident where a college senior was denied a scholarship (he didn't have any money coming from family, and his academics were the only way to get any college time) after our counselor "forgot" to ship out his scholarship information to the proper school. Not to mention the fact that many students didn't even know their GPA until after they had graduated. Thus, many students got screwed out of scholarships.

This year, we have an amazing counselor who is very helpful. He's pointed out to me personally 7 scholarships, which I got 5 of them. These each ranged from 500 to 1000 dollars of money straight in my pocket.

^_^

Just another random viewpoint.

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Math was permanently and irreversibly ruined for me by an absolutely horrible teacher I had.

Me and my Anatomy, AP Government and AP Chemistry classes. They were and are AWFUL!

[jasper-isis]

Private VS. Public Schooling

Meh. We have a private academy about 30 minutes away from our high school, and I have a good friend that moved to my school from a private school. From what I've seen and heard, I'd rather stay in public schools. Not to say that private schooling is a bad thing, but it seems like it's always about what the investors want, and not what the students want. For example, our "local" private school gets a lot of money from the "uppercrust" of my state. This "uppercrust" has pretty conservative christian views (which there is nothing wrong with!), so they have banned any and all scientific classes that contradict anything from any religion, as well as teaching about historic religions of the past. They also do not allow any contact sports, or extra-curricular activities, saying that they stray away from the academic process. My friend reported a similar situation in Colarado and in Michigan.

Personally, I think that schools that have closed minds are going to be the biggest downfall of education. I think it is important to learn about other religious beliefs, be involved in sporting activities that teach important values (though I wouldn't ^_^) , and getting involved in extra-curricular activites, which I think is a blessing to the academic process. They work to help assist students by teaching them importnat values they will need in the workforce/college atmosphere.

As for the atmosphere of the buliding, I would have to agree with ya. My school is n't exactly rich, so we suffer from lack of classrooms. My 7th hour class migrates every day, which is really annoying. Not to mention that our computer lab (not EAST lab) is badly outdated. X_X

TJHSST is public, yo. [EDIT: oh, looks like krzT already mentioned this...]

It's nothing like a glamorized palace of learning, either. The building's been deteriorating for years now. Every time we saw another hole in the ceiling, we'd joke about the money going to another supercomputer that nobody will use.

Extracurriculars were pretty much required at the school, as we had an extra period just for doing club activities (and we had a ton of those). It was a cool opportunity to be productive without having your mind on school work (or not... there's always the eerily quiet study hall option). The only problem is that since we have a longer school day than everybody else, it's actually possible to go through some winter days without seeing the sun. >__>

[CodeZTM]

Extracurriculars were pretty much required at the school, as we had an extra period just for doing club activities (and we had a ton of those). It was a cool opportunity to be productive without having your mind on school work (or not... there's always the eerily quiet study hall option). The only problem is that since we have a longer school day than everybody else, it's actually possible to go through some winter days without seeing the sun. >__>

I would kill for that. ^_^

[Otohiko]

On the subject of extra-curriculars, funny thought - in Russia, I was massively involved in those. In Canada, almost not at all, despite the fact our school was supposedly very above average in those, and the variety was actually wider. But I rarely found anything interesting for myself, if at all. I guess it probably has more to do with me than the schools

I guess that personal experience gave me a pretty dismissive attitude about extracurricular activities. If I have any stance on that, it's that in-class resources should still be given priority.

[jasper-isis]

Oh, and I forgot to respond to this:

I think that a student should be allowed to take classes in high school that directly coorelates with their future career. Those who don't have a career can take a random assortment of classes, in order to find out what kind of carrer they might like. Right now, I could care less about certain classes that have no point in me taking. X_X But I have to have them in order to graduate, so I'm forced.

Don't more than 50% of undergrads change their majors at some point in college? I think my biggest mistake going into college was "knowing" what I wanted to do. Needless to say, I'm now on a track that's entirely different from what I thought would be studying. Being in a huge university really introduces you to things that most high schools could never offer. If the purpose of high school is to prepare students for higher education, then allowing kids to prematurely work themselves onto a narrow path probably isn't the best idea.

If the purpose of a high school is to prepare teens for life without higher education, then it's probably a different matter. I guess it depends on the outlook of the community that the school is located in.

[Otohiko]

If the purpose of high school is to prepare students for higher education, then allowing kids to prematurely work themselves onto a narrow path probably isn't the best idea.

I don't know, there is a reverse side to that - often being able to choose wrong in high school saves one headache in college.

I also thought I "knew" in grade 11 that I was going into engineering. Fortunately I bombed math and physics right away and it gave me time to change plans quickly enough so that it neither affected the grades that really counted for college admission, nor made me waste time and money on changing tracks in college.