AnimeMusicVideos.org

Kalium · Post by **Kalium** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:16 pm

I oppose this.

Why? It's simple. What is proposed is a corruption of what makes the VCAs special.

Every other contest is decided solely or primarily by judges. Sure, a con might have an audience favorite award, but every other award is handed out by a small group of judges, if not a single judge.

The VCAs are different. The VCAs are democratic, and singularly so. There are gatekeepers who determine eligibility, and the rest is up to the community.

The VCAs are special. Keep them that way.

On the other hand, Koop, if you want to run Yet Another Online Contest with some random panel of judges, there's nothing stopping you. Knock yourself out.

Org Profile · Post by **Vlad G Pohnert** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:25 pm

Keep in mind people there will always be views and opinions of how things should be done...

Some people hate audience voting, some don't mind it... There is nothing wrong with both systems and frankly I see nothing wrong with both ways as each have thier limitations (Judging panels just as much). Contest each chooses their methodology and that's what makes it all unique. I've been involved in both types and honestly, each works in their own way. I've been on the administration side of both types and so I know what's involved in both and it's more important that the person(s) running it make it fair, honest and as balanced within the rules they set rather then just pick think of a contest as having to have the best "flavor" of methodology in determining the winners. Just something to consider.

Some will argue audience is flawed, well the same argument can be said about judging (just look at issues with that in all other types of judged contests)... We all have opinions and ways we would like to see things go, but that does not mean things are broken or need to be fixed...

I see nothing wrong with this discussion as opinion are always welcome, however at the same time I don't think it's mandatory that the VCAs are broken and have to be "fixed" or added too as well so please everybody try to keep it constructive rather then create two sides of a debate...

Also, lets not go and start making plans or naming names yet

Vlad

ShintaAMV · Post by **ShintaAMV** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:25 pm

I'm down with this.

Autraya · Post by **Autraya** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:20 am

I like the "true cross section of the.org idea"
make all the judges Burly... Problem solved. >.>

but the VCA's are good purely 'cause Warheart was forced to start editing agin

Koopiskeva · Post by **Koopiskeva** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:54 am

Kalium wrote: Every other contest is decided solely or primarily by judges. Sure, a con might have an audience favorite award, but every other award is handed out by a small group of judges, if not a single judge.

Isn't otakon all fan judged? |: ? I was under the impression that many other contests were fan judged as well...

As for the comment about the VCA's being 'broken' - I never said such a thing. I implied it was flawed, just like any other contest - but the difference is that some contests do try to balance it out by having both an audience-based vote and a judge-based vote. So, its not a replacement for the VCAs that I'm looking for, but a complement to provide a different viewpoint on which videos should/could be winners.

Yes, I could make 'some random other contest' sponsored by just me, but I do want the community involved in the greatest way possible in helping to make the contest as close to the VCAs as it could be.

I was actually thinking that it could perhaps run alongside the VCAs - using the semi-finalists as the nominees for the judges to pick from. From past experience, since the semi-finalists give a broader base of videos to choose from - its less prone (to a larger degree than the finalists) to the 'perceived' bias that occurs once even more videos are cut-off. Just a thought on how to make the contest more manageable for the judges.

Org Profile · Post by **Vlad G Pohnert** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:15 am

Koopiskeva wrote:

As for the comment about the VCA's being 'broken' - I never said such a thing. I implied it was flawed, just like any other contest - but the difference is that some contests do try to balance it out by having both an audience-based vote and a judge-based vote. So, its not a replacement for the VCAs that I'm looking for, but a complement to provide a different viewpoint on which videos should/could be winners.

I was actually thinking that it could perhaps run alongside the VCAs - using the semi-finalists as the nominees for the judges to pick from.

As for a judges Choice awad from the semi-finalists, that something more relistic in a contest of this nature.... I just don't want people to get the impression that just because the VCA's are done as they are, they are flawed or broken and hence it was not ment that is what you consider them to be

Vlad

Greggus1 · Post by **Greggus1** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:03 am

Koopiskeva wrote:
Kalium wrote: Every other contest is decided solely or primarily by judges. Sure, a con might have an audience favorite award, but every other award is handed out by a small group of judges, if not a single judge.
Isn't otakon all fan judged? |: ? I was under the impression that many other contests were fan judged as well...

Exactly. The VCAs aren't judged by fans. They're judged by viewers. And you can make the argument only fans are hardcore enough to vote, and I disagree, and even if it were true, we have to aim higher. It's stuff like the VCAs that can, in the long term, be truly beneficial to the mainstream appeal of AMVs. Which, well, I care about.

Koopiskeva · Post by **Koopiskeva** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:18 pm

doesn't viewers = fans |: ? why would anyone be watching this if they weren't fans |: .. but to be a fan doesn't mean you have to be an editor nor necessarily have the 'experience' of watching as many of the nominated videos as they could. Honestly, I don't get why there's people against something that's not even meant to replace nor take away from the VCAs. It'd be an entirely different contest just to show a different viewpoint on the nominees. Maybe, just maybe, the winners of the JCA would be nearly the same as the VCA - therefore eliminating much of the complaints that viewer's are much more biased than judges are. |:

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:29 pm

Koopiskeva wrote:
Kalium wrote: Every other contest is decided solely or primarily by judges. Sure, a con might have an audience favorite award, but every other award is handed out by a small group of judges, if not a single judge.
Isn't otakon all fan judged? |: ? I was under the impression that many other contests were fan judged as well...

Yeah Otakon is. I'd say it's the largest 'audience voted' contest in the US so it's a reasonable comparison. Oh and AX too, but well we all have bad thoughts of AX >_>

Koopiskeva wrote:I was actually thinking that it could perhaps run alongside the VCAs - using the semi-finalists as the nominees for the judges to pick from. From past experience, since the semi-finalists give a broader base of videos to choose from - its less prone (to a larger degree than the finalists) to the 'perceived' bias that occurs once even more videos are cut-off. Just a thought on how to make the contest more manageable for the judges.

Well although it would simplify things for choosing and whatnot, I still contend that most semi-finalists probably don't have that many nominations to begin with and thus it's not truly an accurate measure of what the viewer's truly enjoyed. Like I said, I have no statistics to prove this (although I'm sure an admin knows and wont' share....for obvious reasons, which I agree with), just looking at how it gets around the VCAs with all the circle jerking, self-nominations/pimping, etc....I wouldn't be surprised.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd prefer you use another methodology for choosing finalists. Even something as retarded as choosing from a pool of winners from OTHER contests. Those videos at leave have proven their merit with another group of fans or judges as opposed to 5 - 10 ppl here nominating.

(I am not however saying this is the optimal way)

Regardless (and I believe I said this in my first reply), I think Jay's idea has merit, but needs to be carefully run and managed (as OLD MAN VLAD said).

Greggus1 · Post by **Greggus1** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:58 pm

Koopiskeva wrote:doesn't viewers = fans |: ? why would anyone be watching this if they weren't fans |: .. but to be a fan doesn't mean you have to be an editor nor necessarily have the 'experience' of watching as many of the nominated videos as they could. Honestly, I don't get why there's people against something that's not even meant to replace nor take away from the VCAs. It'd be an entirely different contest just to show a different viewpoint on the nominees. Maybe, just maybe, the winners of the JCA would be nearly the same as the VCA - therefore eliminating much of the complaints that viewer's are much more biased than judges are. |:

I'm not against it as a concept, I'm against it being incorporated into the org as a side-by-side contest with the VCAs, for the reasons I stated about how I view this place. As a separate online contest run by say, RDS, on RDS's site, I wouldn't have anything against it at all.

As for the fans thing, I like going to art expositions, but I wouldn't ever qualify myself as an art fan. That's what I'm talking about: The casual viewer, who may not be a large percentage of the site userbase yet, but will be soon enough.

Regardless, I wish you luck with this