A forum for newbies?

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Kionon
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Post by Kionon » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:02 am

godix wrote:Isn't the idea for the noob forum targeting exactly the people that head straight to gamv without looking around at the stickies, help forums, guides, etc? In other words isn't this basically just one more thing the noobs that need it will ignore?
Yes, but it will keep them out of general amv, and furthermore, they will be unable to ignore it if their accounts are set up correctly. They either visit the newbie forum, or they're SOL. Their options will be severely limited.

[

That's kind of the point. It happens in other forums, so why not force all the repeated posts into one forum that if you're uninterested in helping newbies, you can readily ignore. No one is going to force you to come in.

Besides, I addressed this point by saying I was willing to repeat myself in order to make sure such posts stay out of the other forums.
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Bauzi
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Post by Bauzi » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:45 am

That's kind of the point. It happens in other forums, so why not force all the repeated posts into one forum that if you're uninterested in helping newbies, you can readily ignore. No one is going to force you to come in.
Sounds good. I like to support young smart creators especially when they come from my country ^^

Let´s do this.
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OropherZero
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Post by OropherZero » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:51 am

I think its a great idea. I have a few local friends who are in the process of creating their first AMV, their efforts would be butchered by some of the common lurkers of the forum if it were announced, if only just for the sake of amusement.

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JaddziaDax
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Post by JaddziaDax » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:00 pm

while it seems like a good idea, i don't think it will "force it all into one place" as you envision :3

plus I know that the newbs who do stuff right around here do get praised and thanked for lurking and reading and searching before posting.

it almost seems mean to loop all newbs into the "can't do shit right" category.

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Post by Kionon » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:06 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:while it seems like a good idea, i don't think it will "force it all into one place" as you envision :3
There are always exceptions, Old Man. You know that.
plus I know that the newbs who do stuff right around here do get praised and thanked for lurking and reading and searching before posting.
Of course they do, and I don't see that changing by creating a forum dedicated to them.
it almost seems mean to loop all newbs into the "can't do shit right" category.
I think that's a bit harsh. We're suggesting restrictions by process. The faster the process is completed, the faster the restrictions are lifted. The fast learners will unfetter themselves very quickly.
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Post by JaddziaDax » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:12 pm

are they going to have a "points system" (or something) awarded by "over seers" that will allow them once they have gained enough to join "the big boy forum"? or something? and what of the people who don't make any videos but like to join in on discussions or post suggestions?

O.o

my question is how would all this be moderated and how would you keep things being posted in the "correct place"?

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BasharOfTheAges
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Post by BasharOfTheAges » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:14 pm

You're ignoring basic social dynamics here... the people that honestly do want to learn will learn - many of us did. And it's now easier and more spoon-fed than it was in years past. Just because people are getting more and more lazy as time goes on doesn't mean standards should be lowered. That's called enabling - not saying i give a shit about their psychological well being, but it upsets the social dynamic.

Announcements? It should be quite clear by lurking that if you don't have something worth announcing don't do it. And by reading other announcements and seeing what people have said in reaction to other poor attempts one should gain insights into what is expected.

As for other video help threads - It's not so much that we have to post the same damn banners and pictures over and over again that gets people pissed off, it's the fact that similarly titled threads with the same exact problems take up at least half of every page. Teaching people to fucking read or search before they ask a question is proper forum etiquette. If they don't do it they're being rude to us. It's only recently that people have started to take that kinda of attitude for granted. It's not to much to expect a degree of give and take. Sure there's resentment, but it's not unfounded.
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Post by aesling » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:00 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:my question is how would all this be moderated and how would you keep things being posted in the "correct place"?
This is a valid question. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how the moderation and such would work yet, but this is why I brought it up for discussion.
BasharOfTheAges wrote: Sure there's resentment, but it's not unfounded.
Sure, the resentment isn't unfounded, but I think it's blinding many veteran editors to the fact that not all newbies are the same. When they see certain mistakes, they're often much more rude or harsh than they need to be, which in turn scares of people that may have had some potential, if only they had known what to avoid.
BasharOfTheAges wrote:You're ignoring basic social dynamics here... the people that honestly do want to learn will learn - many of us did. And it's now easier and more spoon-fed than it was in years past. Just because people are getting more and more lazy as time goes on doesn't mean standards should be lowered. That's called enabling - not saying i give a shit about their psychological well being, but it upsets the social dynamic.

Announcements? It should be quite clear by lurking that if you don't have something worth announcing don't do it. And by reading other announcements and seeing what people have said in reaction to other poor attempts one should gain insights into what is expected.

As for other video help threads - It's not so much that we have to post the same damn banners and pictures over and over again that gets people pissed off, it's the fact that similarly titled threads with the same exact problems take up at least half of every page. Teaching people to fucking read or search before they ask a question is proper forum etiquette. If they don't do it they're being rude to us.
I would hardly call it pandering. Pandering would be telling newbies that making the same mistakes over and over again is ok, because they tried, right? What I'm proposing is a better way for people to learn that improves our community in the process. It may be considered "etiquette" by some to expect new people to read all the stickies, lurk in the announcements, and read the guides so they can somehow know what to do, we are in effect sending them on a treasure-hunt for the knowledge they need. If, say, in school, on the first day the teacher announced that s/he had placed the textbooks, school supplies, and homework assignment (which, by the way, if you missed a question on, you would get a D) around the school and you had to go find them, it would sound insane; but this is essentially what we are doing. We have to face the fact that it is ineffective, and it is changing nothing. Just because some few people do make it through this proccess doesn't change the fact that many more could. Essentially, we are bitching about all these crappy videos, but we are doing very little to change it. It's not just up to other people to make things better; if we want our community and the videos coming into it to change for the better, we're going to have to take some action ourselves, and this means working with people, not alienating them with our elitist attitudes.
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Post by Bauzi » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:26 pm

my question is how would all this be moderated and how would you keep things being posted in the "correct place"?
This new forum section should be for free use. Remeber: The first thing you have to know before you get a good amv editor is the knowledge and to see that you suck. It´s a fact.
Nobody is perfect at the beginning (hell everyone sucks for the first time). You have to know and see that things should be different and better.

So if somebody goes to the forum (of course not everybody) and post something there out of free will,... well they show that they want to learn. Not many people like to be called noobs.

Do you remeber a common sentence from new ones on the org?
"It doesn´t suck! People on boochsack gave me tons of good comments you retards!" A lot of people (new ones) are often cocky out of wrong reasons. To step down from your attitude into such a new-one forum is a good step into the right direction.

blah blah blah

*sigh* I could write for hours without geting to the point. Do you see what I wanted to tell you?

I´m sure you can spot out talents, who have the will to do it good and right, much better.
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Post by JaddziaDax » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:47 pm

Bauzi, that doesn't really answer my question as to how this forum would stop people from posting in the "wrong places" and asking questions that have been asked a million times..

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