Amv Review #whatever

[godix]

So tonight we tried something new. Instead of focusing on a specific video we tried a more general meta talk. Here's the log:

* godix changes topic to 'Discuss how great godix is'
<trythil> I can't do that, there's a contradiction in the sentence
* trythil quit IRC
* orwell has quit IRC
* PaperIsland has quit IRC
<Fall_Child42> Godix isn't great
<Fall_Child42> he's not in CDVV
* Fall_Child42 has quit IRC
* dokidoki has quit IRC
* quadir has quit IRC

So this week was a little short. Hopefully next week goes better.

[JaddziaDax]

ah so many good times

now this is a log I'm willing to read O:

[Scott Green]

what´s a "godix"?

[Emotive]

what´s a "godix"?

Can't be better than rum.

[wurpess]

what´s a "godix"?

Can't be better than rum.

x22222222222222222222222222222222222222222.67

[Prodigi]

what´s a "godix"?

yer saying it wrong:

Go Dicks.

[Falconone]

Now we see How Great Godix is XD

[quadir]

Seems like there's a bit of confusion still.
Godix ran the review this week.
Kionon is co-founder w/ me and he's back, having been away for awhile.

* Review works like normal, please send your submission to quadir@animemusicvideos.org -- we really aprpeciate them.

* If you want to get runnerup videos ontop of the main vid, be notified when the thread is posted and special information like irc network moves then please add me to your alerts.

* We're currently looking at the possibility of alternate time slots, if you currently cannot make the review but think you'd attend at a different time slot, please email me at quadir@animemusicvideos.org so I have an idea of people's schedules.

* Feel free to email me with comments/suggestions.

See you all monday, same deal as always.

[Kionon]

I will be participating fully this coming Monday.

[godix]

Ok, here's the real log. Kio wasn't going to be able to make it Monday and while Quadir could make it he was busy that weekend so wouldn't have time to prepare a review. So I ran the thing. As I've said a couple times I wasn't going pick some crappy ass video everyone hates so I tried something different. Lesson of the day, overly broad topics suck. As quadir said, next week will be back to normal.

[19:32] * godix changes topic to 'Discussion on non rock/pop videos - examples http://www.a-m-v.org/video/65864 http://www.a-m-v.org/video/139145 and http://www.a-m-v.org/video/63723'
[19:32] <godix> Ok, we're doing something different this week.
[19:33] <godix> Instead of reviewing a video and having that control discussion, we're going to have a topic and let people link to videos as examples.
[19:33] <godix> The topic this week is AMVs using audio genres other than the typical rock/pop and how that influences editing style.
[19:34] <godix> I've linked to a few examples in the topic and you're free to download those to see what I mean. There are other examples of course and feel free to link to them.
[19:34] <godix> The actual conversation will start in half an hour or so.
[19:34] <godix> Or longer if I happened to be the only one in here right now.
[19:35] <quadir> nah
[19:35] <Servo> you say something?
[19:36] <godix> If anyone is interested here's some more examples. I don't expect anyone to actualyl download and watch all of them before the conversation of course
[19:36] <godix> ukms[z] - Deja Vu
[19:36] <godix> http://www.a-m-v.org/video/17449
[19:36] <godix> Tsunami Jones - Silence of a Black Heaven http://www.a-m-v.org/video/59109
[19:37] <godix> http://www.a-m-v.org/video/803 Kevin Caldwell - Caffeine Encomium
[19:37] <godix> http://www.a-m-v.org/video/9238 xstylus - A Total Waste of 6min 35sec
[19:37] <Fall_Child42> Bitchin' video.
[19:37] <godix> http://www.a-m-v.org/video/53385 Quycksylver - Fling Your Partner (an example of failure by the way)
[19:37] <godix> http://www.a-m-v.org/video/129686
[19:37] <godix> Nightowl - Firewall
[19:37] <MD> o.O
[19:37] <godix> And that's all I have offhand
[19:38] <Fall_Child42> Ok are we just gonna link to videos or just give our impression on these types of videos?
[19:38] <Fall_Child42> I need more to go on.
[19:39] <godix> Well the plan is the discuss how the non-rock/pop audio requires different editing styles. What stays the same, what has to change, that sort of thing.
[19:39] <godix> The videos I linked are just examples of what I mean.
[19:39] <Fall_Child42> http://www.a-m-v.org/video/119088
[19:40] <godix> As for others linking, that's fine if someone links to one but this is NOT to become a linkfest. That's why I got it all out of the way before the conversation starts.
[19:40] <Fall_Child42> Sounds good.
[19:41] <Servo> So we can link right now before the conversation starts in other words?
[19:41] <godix> Oh, I suppose that does bring up one other thing. I was mainly thinking established music genres that you could hear on the radio but don't see often in videos. Weird audio things like Schism are also examples of rarely used audio but I don't want this to be strictly experimental type audio.
[19:41] <Fall_Child42> ...
[19:42] <Fall_Child42> Bit Part Demon then?
[19:42] <godix> Feel free. If during the conversation a link feels appropriate I won't throw a fit. If during the conversation a dozen links in a row feels appropriate I will throw a fit.
[19:42] <godix> Actually yes, bit part demon would fit since musical is something not often used.
[19:42] <quadir> huh? isn't it though?
[19:43] <Fall_Child42> not really.
[19:43] <quadir> in comedy it's used all the time I thought
[19:43] <godix> quadir: It's more common than say country & western but still not all that common.
[19:44] <godix> Similar to rap, it isn't 'wow that's rare' but it is a mild surprise to see it done
[19:44] <quadir> all the wicked vids, all those moulin rouge vids, all the adult muppet street thing, and a few evil dead
[19:44] <quadir> all glorified lip sync vids
[19:44] <Fall_Child42> hey .
[19:44] <godix> moulin is rock/pop. Hell, the entire point of moulins songs were that it was rock/pop
[19:44] <Fall_Child42> mines not glorified.
[19:44] <Fall_Child42> :O
[19:44] <quadir> Fall_Child42: you even introduced your vids as a glorified lip sync vid at the panel!
[19:44] <quadir> your bit part demon vid
[19:45] <Fall_Child42> I never said glorified
[19:45] <Fall_Child42> There is not Glorification at all.
[19:45] <Fall_Child42> it is pure down to earth lipsynch.
[19:47] <Fall_Child42> Anywho let us know when to start.
[19:47] <Servo> so nothing non-rock/pop, but audio that you can find on the radio, and musicals too?
[19:47] <godix> in about 15 minutes. I figure people are used to the announce video 8:30 talk 9:00 thing so we'll wait till 9 in case anyone else shows up
[19:47] * Minion-sick has joined #amv-review
[19:47] <Minion> remember remember the 5th of november
[19:48] <godix> Servo: Non rock/pop but audio that isn't 'experimental'.
[19:48] * trythil has joined #amv-review
[19:48] <godix> Although I suppose I could pimp conet one more time but by now anyone who wanted to see that has.
[19:48] * Koopiskeva has joined #amv-review
[19:48] <Koopiskeva> |:>
[19:48] <Fall_Child42> Servo , yeah thats what it looks like ... (although i would argue 'established' musical genre does not discount noise) but yes non rock/pop that can still be heard on the radio.
[19:49] <Minion> not enough electronica amvs IMO
[19:49] <Minion> thats about all my input for tonight
[19:49] <godix> For the sake of those who just came in, tonight we're going to discuss videos using rare genres of music, such as country/rap/hippy protest songs.
[19:49] <Fall_Child42> Minion oh yeah sever lack of euro / jap beat
[19:49] <Fall_Child42> :\
[19:49] <godix> The links in the topic are examples, not videos I expect the conversation to be limited to.
[19:49] <trythil> oh good, I can pimp a video
[19:49] <Minion> ok, i'll rephrase
[19:50] <Fall_Child42> godix, so do you mean pop-rock or rock in general.
[19:50] <Minion> not enough good electronica amvs IMO
[19:50] <Servo> So techno does count or doesn't? Because I don't understand qualifications for radio because I don't listen to it.
[19:50] <trythil> and I can see this conversation never getting past the question of "what is pop"
[19:50] <Fall_Child42> Minion theres not enough good anything amvs imo
[19:50] <godix> FC: I mean the styles of music 90% of the videos use. Rock. Pop. Diva ballads.
[19:50] <Fall_Child42> trythil is a genious
[19:50] <Koopiskeva> michael jackson is pop
[19:50] <Koopiskeva> |:
[19:50] <Fall_Child42> godix ... so like Beatles?
[19:51] <Fall_Child42> or basically just nothing on the Most used list.
[19:51] <godix> servo: Lets keep this simple. Audio that if you saw a video to it you'd think 'boy, rare to see someone use a song like that'.
[19:51] <MD> japanese >.<
[19:51] <godix> Actually I see quite a lot of jpop amvs.
[19:51] <G_Q> For example, Ileia's Allegro would not be "pop/rock"
[19:51] <MD> mhmm
[19:51] <godix> And jpop is, mostly, american 80's music which is widely used anyway
[19:51] <MD> I want more jpop
[19:52] <Fall_Child42> u wood.
[19:52] <MD> aye
[19:52] <trythil> Allegretto would have been pop in the 1800s
[19:52] <trythil> :|
[19:53] <godix> trythil: You just aren't happy if you aren't arguing are you?
[19:53] <Fall_Child42> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/lists/usedmusic.php
[19:53] <Fall_Child42> so no linkin park
[19:53] <trythil> godix: I'm just trying to get all the ridiculous arguments out of the way
[19:53] <Fall_Child42> and no - linkin park - either
[19:53] <trythil> because I know someone will bring them out
[19:53] <godix> I like that unknown is on the most used list.
[19:53] <Fall_Child42> NO UNKNOWN.
[19:54] <godix> trythil: True but I'm trying to keep this vauge. Just audio styles not often used in videos.
[19:54] <godix> or vague even
[19:54] <trythil> well I mean
[19:54] <trythil> hmm
[19:54] <Fall_Child42> trythil you are the one bring them up.
[19:54] <Fall_Child42> you jerk.
[19:54] <trythil> FC: yeah, it's a preemptive strike
[19:54] <Fall_Child42> you terrorist.
[19:55] <trythil> indeed
[19:55] <trythil> I'm flying my musical planes into the buildings of synchronization
[19:55] <Servo> Could Vlad's new video be an example.? http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=152091
[19:55] <trythil> they explode with the force of a thousand drum synthesizers
[19:55] <godix> servo: IIRC it was. Although I don't recall it very well
[19:56] <trythil> in any case, I'm wondering if urban suite would be accepted as an example
[19:56] <godix> yes
[19:56] <trythil> because at least that gives me a point of reference
[19:56] <trythil> ok
[19:56] <godix> almost anything in your profile would be accepted
[19:56] <Fall_Child42> TV themes.
[19:56] <trythil> (even though noise is actually pretty common)
[19:56] <Fall_Child42> I dunno.
[19:57] <godix> Although a discussion of your editing style would quickly degenerate into 'this guy sucks' and that's it.
[19:57] <Fall_Child42> Noise isn't really that common
[19:57] <trythil> godix: well, yes, and I'd be leading that
[19:57] <Fall_Child42> sadly it's become more common
[19:57] <trythil> but I figured that'd be obvious
[19:57] <Fall_Child42> or not sadly as I like noise videos
[19:57] <godix> I'd almost agree with FC. I'm actualy seeing more experimental vids being made and it's starting to get old.
[19:58] <trythil> FC: a lot of synthesizer-driven work today incorporates elements of noise in one way or another
[19:58] <Servo> godix: so going back to old styles is new?
[19:58] <Fall_Child42> trythil, but they are rarely categorized as "noise"
[19:58] <G_Q> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=106191 <--- One no one else has used afaik
[19:58] <godix> well unusual. Which, given the general demographic of the community, isn't surprising.
[19:58] <G_Q> Does that constitute non-pop, though?
[19:59] <trythil> in other news, Belkin is fuckwads
[19:59] <Fall_Child42> Belkin I should know that name
[19:59] <Fall_Child42> shit
[19:59] <trythil> they make bad network equipment
[19:59] <Fall_Child42> I need to study more.
[20:00] <Fall_Child42> Oh. They have a very similar name to a Pop culture writer.
[20:00] <godix> that was the flash's theme song? Very dramatic for a show about a guy who just runs fast.
[20:00] <dokidoki> FC you've seen this right? http://www.a-m-v.org/video/1024
[20:00] <dokidoki> wait no link I wonder if I have it.
[20:00] <Fall_Child42> doki ... no.
[20:00] <Fall_Child42> but melt banana are awesome
[20:01] <Fall_Child42> Thanks alot
[20:01] <Fall_Child42> Also http://www.a-m-v.org/video/13583
[20:01] <Fall_Child42> I'm really looking for that video
[20:01] <Fall_Child42> (as a side not if anyone has it)
[20:01] <Fall_Child42> *note
[20:02] <Fall_Child42> but the link also pertains to this discussion.
[20:03] <trythil> I'd throw in a link to http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=24725
[20:03] <trythil> but
[20:03] <godix> Ok, I think anyone who is gonna join has now. So lets get things started, although we kinda have anyway.
[20:03] <trythil> I guess that's going to have to be Vault-ed
[20:03] <quadir> Fall_Child42: bad link.
[20:03] <quadir> but that makes sense to what you said after you linked it
[20:03] <quadir> doh
[20:04] <godix> One thing I noticed with most of these is that they rely a lot less on plain beat sync and flashy effects than most videos these days
[20:04] <Servo> That's the first thing I thought/
[20:04] <Fall_Child42> godix i think it's only with the videos we've been linking
[20:05] <Fall_Child42> Most of which are just sort of closer to the bizzare end of things... Many of the non pop/rock videos rely on exactly the same techniques as many of the popvideos
[20:05] <godix> FC: Maybe but I do note the only example I gave that I do not like at all was the fling your partner one that relied overly much on beat sync
[20:06] <Servo> Does anybody have any examples where non pop/rock doesn't work in a video.
[20:07] <Fall_Child42> I can see a lack of overt effects in many of the non pop/rock videos .... but I'm not sure like BTB would count as pop/rock.
[20:07] <godix> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=53385
[20:07] <godix> Definately non pop/rock and I think it fails for mostly sticking the same editing style as pop/rock.
[20:08] <Fall_Child42> godix ... I'm afraid you are going to have to give us more to go on here ... What editing styles, etc.
[20:09] <dokidoki> FC: Uploading Melt Banana video to Vault.
[20:09] <Fall_Child42> Oh Awesome... Thanks again Doki.
[20:09] <dokidoki> :up:
[20:09] <godix> Well, as an example, most of these go more for mood sync than straight lyric sync
[20:10] <Fall_Child42> most of these what? Non- pop rock videos?
[20:10] <godix> Well the examples we've linked so far, yes.
[20:10] <Fall_Child42> well gimmie a sec.
[20:11] <G_Q> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=103388
[20:11] <Fall_Child42> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=125247
[20:11] * PaperIsland has joined #amv-review
[20:11] <Fall_Child42> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=78144
[20:11] <trythil> I think I'd call that popular
[20:11] <trythil> in the sense of "everyone has heard that Leeroy Jenkins clip"
[20:12] <quadir> there's over an hour of videos linked so far in my queue
[20:13] <quadir> okay, I'm going to pick on godix' first link, ntyfive. The really neat thing here is instead of it being more musical, you have this running dialog
[20:13] <godix> That's starting to get away from 'MUSIC' video. I'm more curious what you all think about what style changes need to be done to make a hoe down work as opposed to NTB.
[20:13] <quadir> while you need to really interpret most songs, in this kind of audio it /is/ reading the story. Yes you can go deeper into it, but the surface interpretation really don't need any thought
[20:13] <Fall_Child42> There's no reason you can't take an odd bit of music set it to naruto and cover it with effects.
[20:14] <Fall_Child42> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=21802
[20:14] <Fall_Child42> (non pop/rock music lip synch heavily)
[20:14] <quadir> narative videos seem so much more like picturebooks, they are almost pure lyric sync
[20:14] <godix> FC: There's nothing preventing you from doing it but would it work? Could you honestly see NTB style working with classical music for example. And if not, what differences would need to be done?
[20:14] <Fall_Child42> quadir ... those are ballads
[20:14] <PaperIsland> What is NTB?
[20:14] <Fall_Child42> get out
[20:15] <quadir> Fall_Child42: I'm also thinking of videos like Hsien's gothic story tale
[20:15] <Rathisponge> Are you suggesting prose oriented videos are restricted to pure lyric synch?
[20:15] <godix> naruto technique beat. The most effect whore thing you can see in your life, except perhaps for bleach technique beat
[20:15] <trythil> quadir: uh, that was AbsoluteDestiny
[20:15] <quadir> trythil: ugh, you're probably right there.
[20:15] <Fall_Child42> quadir ... that also just appeared in my mind.
[20:15] <PaperIsland> oh ok, i've seen it
[20:15] <godix> That's what ntyfive2 did but it in some spots it really stretched it
[20:15] <PaperIsland> I thought that might be it, but I wanted to make sure
[20:16] <Fall_Child42> godix ... is Imogen Heap really pop/rock?
[20:16] <quadir> Rathisponge: that is what I'm saying. When the meaning of the song is so clear, there's a lot less "well I want to interpret it /this/ way" by the editor
[20:16] <Rathisponge> When compared to pure musical songs, like the jazz amv godix posted, it allows for a wider scene selection. I agree.
[20:16] <Fall_Child42> I mean Euhoria was pretty damn effects whorish.
[20:16] <godix> FC: I have no idea what imogen heap is
[20:16] <Fall_Child42> *Euphoria
[20:16] <quadir> Rathisponge: and that naturally really makes them limit their footage selection more, they think "well I can't put that there, clearly the song isn't talking about that"
[20:17] <trythil> FC: I've seen her labeled as "Indie Pop", whatever the hell that is
[20:17] <Rathisponge> I can see what you mean.
[20:17] <quadir> so as far as ballad/narative audio goes, I'm thinking that natural limitation might lead it to not be used as much
[20:17] <quadir> it's just not as interesting.
[20:18] <Fall_Child42> trythil, keep within the context of this particular discussion ... not what the global music scene lables things
[20:18] <Rathisponge> It may be tougher to find scenes which fit as well.
[20:18] <quadir> editing wise, watching wise
[20:18] <Fall_Child42> quadir you lie.
[20:18] <trythil> FC: well, ok
[20:18] <trythil> I've heard Imogen Heap songs in Barnes & Noble
[20:18] <Fall_Child42> Ballads can be awesomely interesting to watch and edit.
[20:18] <trythil> by that standard yeah I'd call her work "pop"
[20:19] <Rathisponge> That is a very interesting observation quadir. I think back to a few songs which I enjoy, but they are quite narrative and would be tough to find scenes to match lyrically.
[20:19] <Fall_Child42> trythil, I've heard beethoven while on hold.
[20:19] <godix> The thing I noticed is that rock tends to have a very strong beat which seems to encourage the beat sync mentality that's pretty common. With other genres that isn't there, or accented in different ways, so I see more editors going with mood sync or lyric sycn.
[20:19] <quadir> Fall_Child42: yeah? I mean I fell in love with gothic fairy tale but not for any "depth" to it.
[20:19] <Fall_Child42> still not used in many videos
[20:19] <trythil> at the same time, you're not going to hear e.g. Hide and Seek that often anywhere
[20:19] <trythil> FC: so, basically, give me some criteria here
[20:19] <Fall_Child42> no get godix to do that it's his discussion/
[20:19] <trythil> er wait
[20:19] <trythil> correction
[20:19] <trythil> you WILL hear ONE section of Hide and Seek fucking everywhere
[20:19] <trythil> but the whole song
[20:19] <trythil> not so much
[20:19] <Fall_Child42> quadir, must things have depth to be enjoyable to edit and watch?
[20:20] <godix> back to what is pop/rock?
[20:20] <quadir> I meant what was other people's reaction to ntyfive past the OMG GLOBAL WARMING LETS GO CONALIZE SPACE AND RAPE EACH NEW PLANET
[20:20] <trythil> I think space colonization is cool
[20:20] <trythil> conalizing just sounds bad, though
[20:20] <quadir> Fall_Child42: no, but I think it spices things up, hence it being more common
[20:20] <quadir> yeah, what trythil said
[20:21] <G_Q> godix: Pop/Rock is a genre that includes a multitude of forms.
[20:21] <trythil> as far as reaction goes, I dunno, it seemed like a straightforward and well-done interpretation of the song
[20:21] <trythil> to me
[20:21] <Fall_Child42> quadir ... depth is more common?
[20:21] <godix> GQ: Yes, I know. I didn't mean this to be a debate on music terms though.
[20:21] <Fall_Child42> ???
[20:21] <quadir> Fall_Child42: something that lends itself to multiple interpretations
[20:22] <quadir> godix, what is a theme?
[20:22] <trythil> oh shit
[20:22] <trythil> not again
[20:22] <Fall_Child42> quadir ... everything lends itself to multiple interpratations ... thus is the very nature of the decoding process when any one person reads a text
[20:22] <godix> trythil: So what made it well done? If Britney Spears did a cover to the song could you see the video still working as is and if not what type of differences would need to be done
[20:22] <trythil> godix: to give a straightforward, objective answer, I think Janzki is a cool cat
[20:23] <Fall_Child42> yeah Janzki ain't no square.
[20:23] <quadir> *facepalm*
[20:23] <Fall_Child42> he's cool mand ... solid.
[20:23] <trythil> and you know that 90% of that "I like this video" crap comes down to stuff like that
[20:23] <trythil> so I'm going to lay it out straight
[20:23] <trythil> no BS
[20:23] <godix> I can't see janzki flashing his genitals for pictures so maybe the britney spears thing is a bad example
[20:24] <trythil> and actually, if Britney Spears pulled off a cover of In The Year 2525, yeah, maybe it'd work
[20:25] <trythil> although I get the feeling that the video would be edited to be somewhat comedic
[20:25] <godix> Ok, let me ask this, most of us in here are editors. If you were going to edit a jazz piece what considerations would you have about it?
[20:25] <trythil> because, well, Britney Spears is a carbon-based joke
[20:25] <Fall_Child42> Godix what kind of Jazz?
[20:25] <trythil> yeah
[20:25] <trythil> I mean
[20:25] <Fall_Child42> Like Freeform Jazz Quartet?
[20:25] <godix> FC: Would it make a difference?
[20:25] <trythil> I wouldn't treat big band the same way I'd treat Kenny G
[20:25] <Fall_Child42> Thats pretty much like noise.
[20:26] <quadir> godix: I think I would really focus on having my video have coherant flow because jazz tends to be so inaccesible to non-jazz lovers
[20:26] <trythil> (whether or not Kenny G is jazz is another point of debate)
[20:26] <Servo> Godix: If I may, I think all of us should ask ourselves what we would do if we were to edit a video with a song from Linkin Park, a band that classifies under popular culture. After we discuss on what we would do editorially, then ask ourselves what we would do if the song is something such as a jazz piece and how different it is from the Linkin Park alternative.
[20:26] <trythil> I wouldn't edit to Linkin Park
[20:26] <trythil> done
[20:26] <trythil> :P
[20:26] <Fall_Child42> I'd make a comedy video
[20:26] <G_Q> Been there, done that.
[20:26] <G_Q> (Twice, actually)
[20:26] <Fall_Child42> and I'd use ... uhhh .... hajime no ippo.
[20:27] <quadir> shower scene
[20:27] <trythil> in the end, etc.
[20:27] <godix> trythil: So why wouldn't you treat kenny g and big band the same? And what would be different in your treatment?
[20:27] <trythil> godix: well, actually, I guess there it'd depend on the song
[20:27] <trythil> perhaps a better example is that there's no reason to treat Sing Sing Sing the same way as, uh
[20:27] <trythil> any Kenny G song
[20:27] <trythil> (they all sound the same :|)
[20:28] <trythil> the point there being to capitalize on the energy present in Sing Sing Sing
[20:28] <Fall_Child42> imma singa
[20:28] <quadir> the big difference between big band and jazz is that big band has a background rythm that never changes
[20:28] <quadir> you can build and relly on that
[20:29] <trythil> secondary considerations might be something like using time signature -- I mean, play around with Take Five
[20:29] <PaperIsland> So we're trying to figure out what the differences are in an AMVs style when it doesn't use rock/pop? Sorry I missed the start.
[20:29] <quadir> jazz does away with it and you're often left hanging without anything but the foreground to piece together your experience
[20:29] <Fall_Child42> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjQ4QvTqQDo
[20:29] <trythil> if you cut to that as if you'd cut to something in 4/4, I'm going to stab you in the face
[20:29] <quadir> so if you edit to big band you can use that rythm like a pulse
[20:29] <Fall_Child42> Also this rasies a problem of not every editor is gonna handle a same peice of music similar
[20:30] <trythil> FC: well yeah, I think that's why the question is being askjed
[20:30] <godix> FC: If every editor was then the topic would be 'Here's how you edit jazz. Here's how you edit country & western.'
[20:30] <godix> That's why there's a discussion, to talk about how you'd handle it differently.
[20:30] <Fall_Child42> for example, Impromtu, I have Rick James lip synching to the rap, Decoy adds bar effects, Kit just speeds up footage, Krat makes a flashy action thing, and GQ internal synchs the bastard.
[20:31] <godix> Most rock/pop has a very strong and obvious beat to it. What do you do with a piece that is musical and not just random noise but doesn't have such a driving obvious beat?
[20:31] <quadir> Fall_Child42: so you're saying editors are more likely to fall into a specific style they usually don't escape/deviate from no matter the kind of music they are editing to?
[20:32] <Fall_Child42> quadir ... pretty much
[20:32] <trythil> godix: I like to establish a sense of motion
[20:32] <Fall_Child42> unless they make a conscious effort
[20:32] <Fall_Child42> or unless they are the single most adaptive person on the planet.
[20:33] <quadir> Fall_Child42: which usually is bound to suck
[20:33] <trythil> based on rhythm
[20:33] <trythil> from that point on chord progressions give me ideas
[20:33] <quadir> dokidoki: drama vid!
[20:33] <Fall_Child42> quadir ... not nessacarily.
[20:33] <Servo> Here's my view on the topic right now, an editor's skill should be able to construct something defined no matter what the visual or audio is. However, let's use Vlad's new video "I Don't Wanna Be A Cowboy." The song itself is a genre of alternative jazz. The song itself already establishes a mood and setting, thus influencing Vlad to use visuals from Cowboy Bebop. The video portrays Andy the cowboy in a song tribute to women, w
[20:33] <godix> Most editors I can think of limit their videos to the same genre. I suspect it's primarily because they fall back on their typical editing tricks.
[20:33] <trythil> guess I'd better go to left field, then
[20:34] <Fall_Child42> Servo ... it's the theme song to fireball XL5
[20:34] <Fall_Child42> ... heh Alternative Jazz
[20:34] <quadir> Servo: your comment was cut off at 'tribute to women, w'
[20:34] <Servo> oh sorry, I'll fix that.
[20:34] <quadir> don't shoot me
[20:34] <Servo> The video portrays Andy the cowboy in a song tribute to women, while still being influenced by the mood and lyrics of the song. Thus, this out of the 'norm' song has influenced Vlad in his editing.
[20:35] <quadir> please :(
[20:35] <dokidoki> quadir: boo drama
[20:35] <trythil> I think it's pretty well-established that the audio influences the editing
[20:35] <G_Q> Servo: Have you seen Vlad's other works?
[20:35] <Servo> Here's the link to Vlad's video. http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=152091
[20:35] <trythil> the point is how
[20:35] <Servo> G_Q: Yes, why?
[20:35] <Fall_Child42> how does Audio influence editing?
[20:36] <quadir> godix: so is that more a learning curve then? there is a different learning curve and bag of tricks for the different types of videos... so if you bother to 'unlock' all the skills in that tree, you're not likely to want to spend the time investment to grind your way up the other?
[20:36] <G_Q> ... never mind.
[20:36] <Fall_Child42> That comes down to the editor really.
[20:36] <godix> Actually I thought vlads video showed how some common elements of editing are consistant across multiple musical genres.
[20:36] <trythil> ok
[20:36] <quadir> I can believe I just made a RPG/MMO grind comparison with editing lol
[20:36] <Fall_Child42> but a good example are the Iron Chef videos being made.
[20:36] <trythil> fine
[20:36] <PaperIsland> I'm not convinced that any music doesn't have a beat, other than experimental jazz
[20:36] <trythil> STRICTLY SPEAKING
[20:36] <trythil> video and music are orthogonal
[20:37] <Fall_Child42> Paper Island
[20:37] <Minion> speaking of being drunk
[20:37] <Minion> oops wrong tab
[20:37] <G_Q> PaperIsland: Uh.... :o
[20:37] <quadir> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal
[20:37] <Fall_Child42> PaperIsland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGzrL8J0t-c
[20:37] <quadir> which won't help you much
[20:37] <godix> quadir: I think it's that most people only like a limited set of music. It's rare to see someone who lists to rap in their car on the way to see an opera. So they learn to edit to the music they like and never expose themselves to music outside of that. So they just keep repeating what they already did
[20:37] <Servo> FC: No matter what you're editing, the song must some way connect with the visuals. This is the basics of Synchronization according to Kalium's Primer.
[20:37] <Fall_Child42> Servo ... Lies.
[20:38] <trythil> Kalium doesn't know what he's talking about
[20:38] <trythil> he included one of my videos in his primer
[20:38] <trythil> QED
[20:38] <godix> PaperIsland: I wasn't saying other styles don't have a beat, just many others the beat isn't as prevelent, unchanging, and easy to sync to as the typical rock/pop
[20:38] <Servo> FC: But you're free to choose how to connect the audio with visuals.
[20:38] <trythil> quadir: orthogonal can be (ab)used to mean "independent"
[20:38] <Fall_Child42> Servo ... Define "Connect"
[20:38] <trythil> although independent is a better adjective anyway
[20:38] <godix> Classical music for example has a beat and is very complex but it's rare to hear the boom boom boom of a drum keeping that beat
[20:39] <trythil> and, strictly speaking, you don't need to connect the song to anything in the visuals
[20:39] <trythil> slap video on audio, render, done
[20:39] <godix> Therefore most videos to classical music I've seen tend to go for mood sync and longer clips than rock/pop.
[20:39] <trythil> at least that seems like FC's argument
[20:39] <trythil> which is a terribly degenerate case, but Todd likes those
[20:39] <Fall_Child42> it's true.
[20:40] <Servo> FC: Seriously, it won't make sense if Faye Valentine is firing off guns when Fall Out Boy is bitching about cutting your wrists.
[20:40] <trythil> so how about we talk about synchronization, excluding those cases
[20:40] <Fall_Child42> Servo ... so?
[20:40] <godix> Todd put a fucking penguin playing a piano to Beethoven. I think that about sums up FC's ability.
[20:40] <Fall_Child42> Why dies it have to make "Sense"
[20:40] <Fall_Child42> *does
[20:40] <Servo> FC: Why do you make AMVs?
[20:40] <Fall_Child42> Because it's fun.
[20:41] <Fall_Child42> well sort of
[20:41] <G_Q> Why do you, Servo?
[20:41] <trythil> I do it for the Nobel Peace Prize
[20:41] <Fall_Child42> I do it for the kids in the Iraq
[20:41] <Servo> Because it's fun. But I don't bother with sensless material.
[20:41] <godix> Ok, trythil has a good idea. Perhaps I tried a subject to open. Lets talk about synchronization and what general differences you'd need to do for different music genres
[20:41] <Fall_Child42> they need maps
[20:41] <trythil> and the Asia
[20:41] <G_Q> tryth: If you were Al Gore, then yes, that's attainable.
[20:42] <trythil> G_Q: if I were Al Gore, I wouldn't have to edit
[20:42] <trythil> I'd just have to throw crap into Keynote
[20:42] <Fall_Child42> He'd have an oscar already.
[20:44] <Servo> godix: well, it really shouldn't make a difference according to the editor's style, but one thing is important is to match a mood with the genre.
[20:44] <Fall_Child42> Anywho, back to godix.
[20:44] <godix> Earlier trythil mentioned he'd try having a coherant flow with jazz, the question is how and how is that different than the standard linken park vid
[20:44] <trythil> godix: personally, I don't think there'd be one
[20:44] <trythil> well
[20:44] <trythil> no
[20:44] <trythil> correction
[20:44] <trythil> coherent flow, I'd try to aim for both
[20:44] <trythil> I don't think they'd end up being cut similarly at all
[20:45] <PaperIsland> I do
[20:45] <trythil> nor do I think they'd end up having the same mood, story, connotations, etc
[20:45] <trythil> or they might
[20:45] <trythil> it really depends on the song, how I'm feeling at the time, how much I hate Comcast, etc
[20:45] <quadir> godix: well big band has a steady background beat, it just isn't so strong the viewer notices it driving the action
[20:45] <trythil> if you can specify initial conditions there I think I can go somewhere :P
[20:45] <godix> if you arne't cutting to the beat like linkin park vids then how would you plan your cuts and where
[20:46] <trythil> godix: well, I've always wanted to a video in one cut
[20:46] <trythil> +do
[20:46] <Fall_Child42> A trailer Audio requires you use Evangelion.
[20:46] <Servo> Well remember the pacing that Linkin Park deals with mostly; It's fast. With something such as common jazz, the editing cuts would be more simple and easy.
[20:46] <quadir> godix: try changing the subject
[20:46] <G_Q> Servo: "Common Jazz"?
[20:47] * godix changes topic to 'Discuss how great godix is'
[20:47] <trythil> it's the complement of uncommon jazz, of course
[20:47] <godix> quadir: Done.
[20:47] <G_Q> So, like, what's "uncommon Jazz"
[20:47] <Fall_Child42> godix inspired me to be better than him
[20:47] <PaperIsland> Of the videos listed in the subject, I think their editing is much more defined by their genre of expression (i.e. comedy) than their musical genre
[20:47] <Fall_Child42> it hasn't happened yet.
[20:47] <PaperIsland> I really don't see a clear distinction based on musical style
[20:47] <Fall_Child42> but at least i'm beating trythil
[20:47] <quadir> G_Q: all vocal. just one long instrumental solo. experimental jazz.
[20:47] <PaperIsland> beyond the distinctions you'd have between songs in the same genre
[20:48] <G_Q> But, "all vocal" is acapella, which isn't necessarily Jazz. :|
[20:48] <trythil> quadir: so are you including e.g. barbershop quartet in jazz?
[20:48] <Servo> It would probably best if everyone here focuses less on the definitions, and more on speaking ENGLISH.
[20:48] <Fall_Child42> NEEDS MORE BARBER SHOP QUARTET VIDEOS.
[20:48] <G_Q> Manhattan Transfer?
[20:48] <quadir> trythil: no.
[20:49] <quadir> servo quote of the year.
[20:49] <trythil> indeed, because nobody here is speaking
[20:49] <Fall_Child42> STOP USING TERMS LIKE ACAPELLA AND APREGGIO
[20:49] <Fall_Child42> FUCKIN ITALIANS
[20:50] <godix> paper: So you think a dance video done to jazz, clasical, or whatever song is #1 for the week would generally work with the same editing style?
[20:50] <PaperIsland> Yes
[20:50] <PaperIsland> If the pace of the song was similar
[20:50] <dokidoki> I heard Cate Blanchett was apreggio.
[20:50] <godix> Well that's the thing, often different musical genres don't have the same pacing.
[20:50] <trythil> so you'd say that editing style is driven by rhythm?
[20:51] <PaperIsland> I've heard very fast jazz and very slow jazz and I've heard very fast electronic and very slow electronic
[20:51] <PaperIsland> So if the normal dance song is electronic, I think a jazz video would have a similar editing style
[20:52] <godix> eh, you got a point. Saber Dance is certainly edited similar to other dance videos at least
[20:52] <Fall_Child42> godix, I see what you are saying... Different musical genre's usually work best with different editing styles.
[20:52] <Servo> Remember, it also depends on what you want the audience to feel.
[20:52] <Fall_Child42> but i think different approaches can work on the same peice of music.
[20:52] <G_Q> Servo: You make a video for your own tastes and likes, not to pander to the taste and likes of others.
[20:53] <G_Q> If you hate your video, chances are others will, too. :|
[20:53] <Servo> G_Q: And what about both?
[20:53] <quadir> G_Q: I dunno, does a mod game metaphor work here
[20:53] <godix> GQ: I have several awards disproving that.
[20:53] <Fall_Child42> quadir Like game modding?
[20:53] <Fall_Child42> or mod as in the British trend?
[20:53] <quadir> G_Q: mod makers usually find they start out making it for themselves, then at a certain point they find they are mostly responding to the needs/wants of the community
[20:53] <quadir> Fall_Child42: game modding
[20:53] <trythil> or mod as in modulus
[20:53] <PaperIsland> G_Q - I completely disagree with you
[20:53] <Servo> G_Q: Remember, your trying to communicate with the audience.
[20:54] <godix> And servo does have a point. If we didn't care about the audience we'd never bother showing our videos to an audience.
[20:54] <PaperIsland> Yeah.
[20:54] <PaperIsland> Exactly
[20:54] <trythil> well, I don't care about the audience beyond wanting them to gouge their eyes out
[20:54] <trythil> but I get the idea
[20:54] <Fall_Child42> Servo...Who is this audience?
[20:54] <quadir> godix: well, you can care about an audience, but expect them to pander to your tastes
[20:54] <quadir> godix: ie, 'how can you not see my brilliance'
[20:54] <PaperIsland> I think the old model of the "lone artist" who cares about no-one is outmoded and worthless
[20:54] <trythil> PaperIsland: yeah, they don't make money
[20:54] <godix> Not to mention that the org feedback methods are often used to tell an editor what the audience wants, with the usually unspoken assumption that it's important
[20:55] <Servo> FC: Hmmm....I don't know, is it you? Is it Godix? Is it the community?
[20:55] <Fall_Child42> Servo, if you don't know, than how can you be making the video for them?
[20:55] <trythil> I think the intent is to address your audience
[20:55] <trythil> whoever that is
[20:55] <Servo> I'll ask it again. Why do you make AMVs?
[20:56] <godix> the audience is anyone watching a video who didn't make it. Although a lot of creators are their own audience so I guess the audience would be whoever is watching
[20:56] <Fall_Child42> Servo, Trying to dominate the world by setting Chobits to noise music.