Save the environment! ... From what?

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Arigatomina
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by Arigatomina » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:27 am

godix wrote:Once Congress seriously took a crack at passing laws about it (and failing spectacularly), serious opposition to it all kicked in. It probably doesn't help that climatologist have been absolute morons recently. The leaked emails aren't as bad as claimed, but their reaction to it is a real publicity problem. When scientists defend keeping data secret and even deleting data in response to Freedom of Information requests, people start wondering what's going on. Especially when a week later they announce that, surprise surprise, a large chunk of the data AGW theories are based on was accidentally deleted.
That's funny. I remember reading original scientific reports (years ago) pointing at GW and then the "rewritten for the Administration" versions that pointed toward the exact opposite. It was supposed to show why the US is failing at science on all levels compared to other countries. At the time I rolled my eyes, because it reminded me of people taking what suits their needs from the BigBook and discarding or reinterpreting the rest. That's what the Bushes did with everything science their entire time in office. If Congress is actually trying, then you'd think the scientific community would at least give them a chance to prove they aren't going to twist their words around anymore.

Carbon caps and the like are never going to pass in the US. I did read my magazines last year and the year before that and I remember how much money was put into saving the big car manufacturers who are the same ones who'd be hit hardest by eco-friendly laws. I got my republican newsletter a few months back and everything in there was talking about how the evil democrats were trying to take away our gas guzzlers and our right to the coal we all love and need. I laughed my head off. They were asking for money to support everything I'm against. They did mention the environment, and the Global Warming scam the democrats are using to take away our rights as Americans. I assumed it was just fear mongering and misinformation, the same thing each party does with every topic they disagree on. It did make me wish I could change parties without my mother bringing up the whole "your brother cancels out my vote, so you have to vote in my place" thing. I'm so not a republican. ;p

On a related note, scientists are generally bad at explaining anything to the masses. They can't even fight the "humans lived with dinosaurs and the earth is flat" theories without turning red in the face. It's not an issue up for debate, so they can't see the point in debating. Their opponents aren't going to be convinced by anything because they don't want to be. Engaging them at all just makes the masses think the issue *is* up for debate.

I don't think Global Warming is up for debate. You cut down forests, there's less plants eating up the carbon. More humans and artificial carbon producers (machines) + fewer forests = more carbon that isn't being recycled by nature. The growing excess has to be going somewhere and you know it is having an effect. We're not slowing down the clearcutting, planted trees don't grow fast enough to replace the lost ones, and we're not driving fewer cars because hello China, welcome to the age of mass polution.

Caps could make a dent if everyone accepted them - out of fear, out of pressure from parents who don't want to be scared of their grandchildren's future, out of greed (trade your unused points for money from those who want to polute more instead of less, great way to reduce emissions!), out of whatever motivation it takes to get people acting. But you're just slowing it down. There'll still be the increasing lack of green and the mass reproducing human+machine emissions.

[Now I'm wondering if that little old lady ringing things up at the Dollar Store was a Democrat. ;p ]

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guy07
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by guy07 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:46 pm

Wow both sides of this story are being covered equally. (In canadain media, anyways. Not sure about the rest of the world.) Yay for freedom of speech. |:>
I got to see Bill Nye the science guy take on some old dude who kept getting angry. Bill seemed a lot smarter when he was talking about dinosaur bones ... it was a draw though. And I'm guessing no big changes will come out of "hopenhagen" and if they do, same thing will happen as did with kyoto. As long as they don't implement the carbon tax thing globally, I don't really care. Even if global warming isn't man made, we shouldn't use more than we have to. So long as they don't tell me i have to live in a cave and eat leaves, I probably won't have any complaints.

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Knowname
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by Knowname » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:11 pm

I drew the line when they took away my hairspray!!
If you do not think so... you will DIE

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8bit_samurai
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by 8bit_samurai » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:18 am

But the polar bears are dying! And without polar bears, how will I continue to make fancy coats and furniture accessories? And how will I void my warranties if there are no seals to club? And how will I seduce blondes in red capes with wolf pelt if I can't hunt wolves from planes? Oh wait, I think the last two may be a different issue...

On a serious not, my father spoke about climate change and how it's affecting Alaska at one of the AFNs a few years back. Didn't really pay attention much, but one of the things I do remember is that permafrost near coastlines and some other places are melting, which erodes the land pretty bad. In fact, there are a few villages that will have to relocate. There was also something about the ice receding faster and taking longer to freeze, which makes it harder for polar bears to find food. It also had some affect on other animals, but I don't really remember. Though the last part I may have heard from somewhere else, I don't really recall.

One of the things I am sure of, is how the weather has been acting weird recently. This year it snowed a couple weeks earlier than usual, and it actually stayed on the ground rather turning to slush. Also, over the weekend we had a pretty bad storm and the next day it rained and has been quite warmer than usual since. It's not the first it rained in December, actually, as a few years ago it not only rained in December, but that same year it snowed in July.
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guy07
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by guy07 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:40 pm

Well, thank god none of the agreements reached were legally binding. I just pray the US doesn't implement a carbon tax ... cuz our Prime Minister said he would pretty much do whatever the US does.

Also, can anyone explain why the Clima-Gate people decided to make Canada look like we're not doing anything? We're the second largest nation in the world and we only give off 2% of the worlds carbon. Given how much of our country is rural and how much vegetation we have (well, in the summer ..), I'd say we probably neutralize our carbon footprint. Canada gets no love. :cry:

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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by Knowname » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:40 pm

Sounds like something Obama would do. You better pray HARD to whatever god you believe in :|
If you do not think so... you will DIE

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guy07
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by guy07 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:47 am

But Obama WAS my god. NNNOOOOO!!! :cry:
Spoiler :
Not really.

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Corran
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by Corran » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:41 am

guy07 wrote:Also, can anyone explain why the Clima-Gate people decided to make Canada look like we're not doing anything? We're the second largest nation in the world and we only give off 2% of the worlds carbon. Given how much of our country is rural and how much vegetation we have (well, in the summer ..), I'd say we probably neutralize our carbon footprint. Canada gets no love. :cry:
This maybe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sands

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guy07
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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by guy07 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:19 am

Canada is the largest supplier of crude oil and refined products to the United States, supplying about 20% of total U.S. imports, and exports more oil and products to the U.S. than it consumes itself.
This means: You get cheap oil, so you can't complain. Didn't you read the USA-CAN Oil Agreement? Geez.

Also, it only accounts for 0.01% of the worlds carbon emissions if my sources are correct. It's not nothing, but it still doesn't justify picking on Canada while other countries emissions from coal mines cost a ton more in carbon emissions. I could go on, but it's best if I not ...

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Re: Save the environment! ... From what?

Post by Knowname » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:52 pm

Correction that means we get Canadian oil :evil:
If you do not think so... you will DIE

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