Winnowing

Cybermat · Post by **Cybermat** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:34 am

Here's a music video contest question for discussion. It is primarily a technical issue, not a creative one....

Several people here have mentioned that they are really distracted from enjoying an AMV made with footage that has network bugs or fansubber logos in it. ("Network bugs" are those semi-transparent network logos that periodically appear on the corner of the screen during TV shows.)

At Otakon, we already DQ (disqualify) music videos with meaningless pre-existing subtitles floating around in them. Should this policy be extended to AMVs made using video footage with pre-existing logos branded into it?

Since it is possible to get clean, raw footage of anime without these logos burned in them, it probably won't kill anybody if we were to decide to show only AMVs made with clean footage. What do you think?

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:47 am

Well, I can't say that I've seen a video covered with logos that I thought was good.

But I have seen some that were ok.

It's a tricky decision. I lean towards "yes, dq them", if only for the reason that if you have this as a rule then people who care about their videos will look for ways to remove the problem and that's a good thing.

Kai Stromler · Post by **Kai Stromler** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:23 am

I'd second the decision to disqualify -- if and only if the source footage is available unbugged, as this is not always the case.

The one example I can think of right now is Kogepan. In order not to look like a fool when posting here, I spent a good bit of time digging and searching, but could not find any hint of a DVD release of this title. (If I'm in error, I wouldn't begrudge somebody pointing me at a place to buy such.)

Thus, nearly all Kogepan source in circulation, subtitled or not, is going to have the Ani-Max bug in the lower right corner (the bug isn't on all the way thorugh the episode). Unavoidably, Kogepan music videos will be subject to the bug as well.

Videos shouldn't be penalized just for using obscure/unsuccesful titles, but creators should be penalized for failing to support anime by buying (or at least renting) their source titles. Bugged source should only be allowed in the extremely rare case that no unbugged source exists.

--K

Quu · Post by **Quu** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:54 am

i would say don't disqualify them out of hand... rely on the fact that 99% of the videos with logos, subs, and crap on it are not goign to make any final cuts....

of course... i am very anti censorship to begin with ^_^

Ashyukun · Post by **Ashyukun** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:05 am

I would agree with AD & Kai- I think that videos that use footage with network logos that are in the source footage (have to qualify this, because some parody/comedy vids put in their own to poke fun at vids that use TV footage) should be DQ'd. I think there's nothing wrong with using footage recorded off domestic TV for learning editing and messing around with, but it's just not appropriate for contests- especially ones of the level of Otakon. Just about (if not) everything on domestic TV these days is available on DVD or even VHS if that's your thing- there's no good reason to be using Cartoon Network (for example) footage in a contest video.

I can understand Kai's exception, though- videos using footage from Japan that is too new to have been released even there or simply aren't available at all shouldn't be penalized for being unique.

VegettoEX · Post by **VegettoEX** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:56 pm

I'm agreeing on the same basis.

We shouldn't be rewarding people who don't buy their anime by allowing them into the contests, no matter what the "quality" of the music video, itself, is.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:12 pm

I am a bit torn on this issue since I do agree with the points being brought up about rewarding people who buy the source and the fact they didn't take the time or effort to remove them.

However, I think it fundamentally comes down to the actual editing. I've never seen it, but I'm sure it is possible to make a great video that happens to have that CN logo on the side. I mean things like scene selection, timing, concept, etc. *can* be done regardless of this. At the same time, I am with Quu in that 99% of these videos *won't* make the finals and thus you shouldn't need to DQ them and that 1 out 1,000,000 videos that is awesomely edited and has a logo/subtitle makes it in.

I'd also like to note that subtitles *can* be used effectively. Tunak's "Lullabye" GotF AMV is an excellent example of this. Given, I think you're smart enough to distuingish when a video is using the subtitle effectively

.

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:22 pm

Well, I think video's shouldn't be outright disqualified because they have logo's on them. I've seen quite a few really good videos that contain logos. In fact I'm about to get started on a video myself that I will have to use fansubs for, simply because right now I don't have 500 bucks to spend on R2 dvds for the source footage. I don't think whether or not the person owns the footage on dvd or not should be an issue, because there is no way to tell anyways. For all you know they just rented the dvd and ripped it, borrowed it from a friend, or downloaded from someone. And if someone goes through the trouble of capturing their own footage off of tv every day, well I think they certainly have a right to use it.

Hitori · Post by **Hitori** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:28 pm

I would have to agree with everyone on this issue...
*your video may be DQ'd if there are any visible logos or subtitles that don't directly relate to the your video.*
Just my opinion...

Kai Stromler wrote:The one example I can think of right now is Kogepan. In order not to look like a fool when posting here, I spent a good bit of time digging and searching, but could not find any hint of a DVD release of this title. (If I'm in error, I wouldn't begrudge somebody pointing me at a place to buy such.)

Thus, nearly all Kogepan source in circulation, subtitled or not, is going to have the Ani-Max bug in the lower right corner (the bug isn't on all the way thorugh the episode). Unavoidably, Kogepan music videos will be subject to the bug as well.

Koge-Pan isn't available here in the US but you can get it imported from CD Japan.

DVD

Koge-Pan
Catalog No.: PCBG-50234
Media: DVD
Number of discs (or other units): 1
Release Date: 2001/12/19
Price: 2980 Yen(US$ 25.02)

VHS

Koge-Pan 1
Catalog No.: PCVG-10789
Media: VHS
Number of discs (or other units): 1
Release Date: 2001/12/19
Price: 1980 Yen(US$ 16.62)

Koge-Pan 2
Catalog No.: PCVG-10790
Media: VHS
Number of discs (or other units): 1
Release Date: 2001/12/19
Price: 1980 Yen(US$ 16.62)

*just helping out!!

Kai Stromler · Post by **Kai Stromler** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:43 pm

rrgh, didn't look hard enough. Thanks for the heads-up.

--K