AX2007 aftermath - The curse of Long Beach returns

XStylus · Post by **XStylus** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:09 am

anneke wrote:My friends and I were laughing. AX never fails to disapoint. We were making bets outside with people. The contest NEVER goes smoothly, and once again there was major issues. It occured to me that a reason they keep trying to get AMVs removed from AX could simply be financial. They have to rent out the theater now to host the showing of the contest. I'm glad their doing that, but that makes the contest more expensive.

Anneke, quit speculating on matters you know nothing about.

AMV will be in the Terrace theater (a correction from my earlier mention that it'd be in LP1), which is where it was at AX2002. We already had the theater booked for showing films anyway, we're just repurposing it for AMV, so the financial impact in obtaining that theater is obviously negligible. Had we run AMV past 11pm yesterday, however, there'd have been the matter of considerable overtime to the crew, so ultimately it's cheaper. There was no way the contest would have proceeded last night even if James had all the discs.

The reason for AMV's lack of support is mostly political, which James had described once before.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:14 am

With James and Katy retiring (I can't blame them at all), what will become of the amvs now? I assume AX will be like Comic Con and just go without an amv contest.

anneke · Post by **anneke** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:32 am

xstylus wrote:
The reason for AMV's lack of support is mostly political, which James had described once before.

And politics never has to do with money. I'm just saying, at this point who can blame them for not wanting to support a contest that has such problems every single year.

-Anneke

MisterFurious · Post by **MisterFurious** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:39 am

Castor Troy wrote:I taking James up on his leave.

I'm done with AX. For good. This was the absolute final straw.

I think that's exactly what the powers that be want us to do. James has always worked his butt off in an uphill battle against certain department heads at AX, who HATE the AMV contest.

Case in point - the AMV workshops I had done in the past with Nic and Tommy. This year, there was a new live events coordinator who demanded that we get permission from the copyright holders for any of their material we used in demonstrating how to make AMV's. In previous years, we had no problems. Nic even got permission from the artist who recorded the song for his video, but each time he sent in such permission, this department head kept changing the rules for obtaining permission until it was too late. Then they give us only an hour in a tiny room and continue to list it in the program book as a "workshop", knowing damn well our hands are tied.

Now, I won't go into too much detail on the problems with the AMV contest this year (mostly because I don't know if I'm allowed to publicly post my privileged information). Suffice to say, the same department head who decapitated the AMV workshop kept pressing James to SHORTEN the contest. This was why the finalist list was announced so late. It was only through James' determination that we even had a contest at all.

James won the battle, but lost the war. Was it a coincidence that the AMV's were stolen? I don't think so, particularly when you take into account that a staff member (possibly working on behalf of a certain department head) would have more opportunity than a lay person to lay hands on his stuff. Conspiracy? Decide for yourself.

IMHO, if you give up on AX, you're playing into the hands of the evil ones. They want the contest to be so screwed up that we won't participate, so that they can schedule a SKIN concert in the AMV contest's time slot.

Me, I'm going to fight the power...

Brakus · Post by **Brakus** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:03 am

Brad, I honor you for standing up to AX and their hatred of the AMV contest. (We missed you at Neko and AWA last year!)

I'm asking honestly because up until about a few days ago I was seriously thinking about flying out to L.A. for this convention... and I realize what forum I'm asking this question in, but I need to ask.... is the only reason of going to Anime Expo is to see the AMV contest, even if you weren't participating in it? There's gotta be other non-AMV-related reasons to go to this convention besides the AMV contest.....

I mean, Otakon's AMV contest hasn't exactly gotten the proper respect it deserves since Matt Pyson left, but a lot of you still go to Otakon regardless because there are other things going on that aren't necessarily AMV-related...

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:05 am

I'm pretty sure it was a disgruntled staffer working for the department heads who stole the amv discs. After 4 years of decently run contests, there's no reason for James to lose any of the discs. He even salvaged last year's contest with his laptop so I trust him.

However, he is still responsible for safeguarding the discs and he should have had copies on himself (even in his pockets) just in case. So many disgruntled attendees will be placing the blame on him.

MisterFurious · Post by **MisterFurious** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:47 am

Brakus wrote:Brad, I honor you for standing up to AX and their hatred of the AMV contest. (We missed you at Neko and AWA last year!)

I'm asking honestly because up until about a few days ago I was seriously thinking about flying out to L.A. for this convention... and I realize what forum I'm asking this question in, but I need to ask.... is the only reason of going to Anime Expo is to see the AMV contest, even if you weren't participating in it? There's gotta be other non-AMV-related reasons to go to this convention besides the AMV contest.....

I mean, Otakon's AMV contest hasn't exactly gotten the proper respect it deserves since Matt Pyson left, but a lot of you still go to Otakon regardless because there are other things going on that aren't necessarily AMV-related...

I just don't see how ANYONE can possible hate AMV's. Okay, maybe Metallica.....

You've asked honestly, and I will answer honestly. AX for me means two things - AMV contest (even if I'm not in it), and Cosplay (because I'm the MC). The rest of it is finding old friends and hanging with them. I'm so grateful for the AMV creator meet-and-greet. One of the things that makes me proud of being a part of the AMV community is how supportive we all are of each other.

As for other non-AMV related reasons, I honestly can't speak for them, because I just stated I only go for AMV's and cosplay. However, I can say that they get a lot of Japanese guests, and AX does manage to shreen films (as opposed to videos).

Unfortunately, AX has also been a troubled con for quite some time, and not just because of AMV's. I suppose the price of success is that everyone wants a piece of it, so everyone wants to make themselves appear to be important to the machine as a whole, so they can take credit for the success. If this sounds like the stereotypical corporate climate, you're absolutely correct. The general feeling I've gotten from AX is that it is a corporate convention, run by committee. They will always choose the safest path, so they don't anger their sponsors.

That's where Otakon has a distinct advantage. It's still fan-run, so they answer to no sponsor, and there is more of a sense of having the freedom to do what you want (although I only went once in 2003). Consistently, year after year, Otakon's attendance nips at the heels of AX, impressive not only because it's run by fans, but also because it remains a three-day con (in case you didn't know, AX is 4 days).

AX is truly unique in its management's constant attempts to sabotage the AMV contest. Every other convention embraces their AMV contest as a highlight for their attendees, and a lot of them manage to schedule JPop concerts around it, too.

There has been a rumor for years that it all began when AX screened the winning AMV's at closing ceremonies in 1999. Supposedly, one of the Japanese guests of honor saw a video done to something he had created, and was furious. Personally, I don't buy this story, because if it was typical of Japanese artists to be insulted at adaptations of their work, why does doujinshi continue to exist? Why are there "Mad" editors in Japan who create videos similar to our AMV's? The more plausible explanation is that someone theorized this at a staff meeting as a reason to not show AMV's at closing ceremonies, and that has been the prevailiing attitude ever since. It was years before the AMV contest was even mentioned in the main program guide, yet it's held at the main events room. Through the looking glass, indeed....

I don't understand why AX continues to insist that AMV's are evil, that they will somehow insult the sponsors or guests and lose their funding. It's probably because it's based in L.A., the "entertainment capital of the world." I've quoted this before on forums, but Terry Gilliam once nailed the attitude of L.A. as "a town where nothing happens because everyone is in fear of their job." Every one here is always terrified of the phrase, "you'll never work in this town again", so no one takes any chances, despite the potential for greater advancement.

As a fan of AMV's and a creator, I plan on taking a stand against this attitude in any way I can. The only way I know how is to keep on keepin' on. I'll enter as many videos as I can make as long as there is a contest, and will attend. Easy for me to say, since I'm a local. Being from out of town, you'll have to make up your own mind.

Maybe we could start a letter writing campaign to AX management, demanding more respect for the AMV contest, and threatening to go to other conventions if they persist. If they saw a large number of people threatening not to attend, maybe they would listen. Then again, I'm an idealist...

Org Profile · Post by **Vlad G Pohnert** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:58 am

This is one reason I would of kept a copy of the contest on myself (unless they planned to jump you and take the discs)

Anyway, the problem is, if AX powers to be do not want a contest, ANYONE as a coordinator will be screwed.. Is it worth it? I say NO.. I've been running conventions for 20 years and it the politics are against you, it truly not worth poring 1000s of hours into something only to get screwed and piss off the fans. The level of commitment to a contest is HUGE on both a time and emotional level. Unless you've run one, it's hard to understand that. I really don’t blame James for getting out of it.

I know it's not James' fault, but again if you take responsibility for something like the AMV contest, you got to make sure you have control to get the job done.

If I were to take the contest next year for example, I would only do it if a had friend(s) in high places so I could make sure the fans don't get screwed.

As for what an anime Con is, it's an event for the FANS and was never intended for the benefit of the con organizers, staff or who ever else controls it (this seems to be a golden point that has been forgotten). AMVs for a fact are something the fans want and enjoy. Hence it's should be up to the con organization to do everything they can to bring this forward regardless of their personal opinions of it...

If AX does not want them and the powers to be don't care if the fans get a contest or not, then there is really no point to fight it nor coordinating it

As for a letter writting campain, the problem is that fans don't come directly to the con for Contest only. Yes, they want a contest, but if it's not there they will still come and find somethign else to do. Hence the contest (or any other single event) has little weight and as such little influence over the powers to be.... Sad really, but a con is the sum of all it's parts which can be good and bad...

Vlad

XStylus · Post by **XStylus** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:30 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote: As for what an anime Con is, it's an event for the FANS and was never intended for the benefit of the con organizers, staff or who ever else controls it (this seems to be a golden point that has been forgotten).

You are only half right.

Anime Expo positions itself as an event for fans, and as an event for industry. If you look at the program schedule, you'll actually see a few industry-only events at the convention.

As a convention that seeks to cater more to the industry in a climate rife with piracy, AMV is the elephant in the living room.

AX is filled with staffers who each have their own vision for what direction AX should be going. When those visions conflict, it turns (and has turned) close friends into bitter enemies, and the best way to attack an enemy is by making them look bad by attacking their project.

Pwolf · Post by **Pwolf** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:46 pm

lmao! not suprised one bit. in fact i almost expected something like this to happen. My own two cents:

1) IMO, James should've made more copies. if they were just dvds, its not hard to make an extra set. from his experiences in the past years, i thought he would've learned that something can and will go wrong and it's always good to have a backup. Because of all the issues that plague the AMV contests in the past (and NOT having a backup), i've started to lose my faith in them. One of the reasons i didn't attend this year (or enter).

2) this is more in responce to brad's last post. the whole idea of, i'm gona fight to try and save the AX amv contest, sounds grand and all, but if they practically already canned it, i really don't see any way us little amv editors are going to change a thing. Maybe if the contest would've gone off without all these ridiculous problems (no back ups and other issues the coordinators have control over) over the years, i can see myself supporting "the cause" but at the moment, i don't see anything worth fighting for. Its not worth my time and effort. There are other contests out there i'd much rather submit to and have gained a good reputation. If AX wants to can AMVs, go ahead, it doesn't matter to me anymore. If we really wanted to show em how much we and the fans enjoy the amv contest, there probably has to be somethign more organized and on a large scale to make them realize how much of an asset the amv contest is to their con. I can't see that happening honestly. And, sadly, i don't think getting rid of the AMV contest is going to effect them in the least.

Pwolf