DDR Project Take 2

TommyRude · Post by **TommyRude** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 5:59 pm

I jus said the double dipping rule is no more! Sheesh. An' if we wait till the AWA project is in full swing, we won't even have a chance of getting it done in time to pitch it to AX. (No comments from the peanut gallery. I'm well aware AX rejected the last one.)

Zerophite · Post by **Zerophite** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:00 pm

Hey Tommy,
I just submitted my requests and was promptly told that neither Matsuri Japan, Ecstacy, or Holic were on 5th mix. So what 5th mix are you using anyway? I only know of one. ^^

RichLather · Post by **RichLather** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:23 pm

Hmmm...methinks I ought to start listening to some DDR tracks...

I am intrigued by the possibility of being a part of this.

Kusoyaro · Post by **Kusoyaro** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 8:18 am

Okay, Tommy. Let's forget for a moment about the fact that you're basically undermining 2 years of hard work by over 50 people, and that you're basically trying to get the jump on our future project before we get to it.
Let's talk about what's going to happen when you push forward with your project.

First off: You have no idea what you are getting into. I guarantee that by your April 1 deadline, you will have less than a 30% followthrough rate. Guarantee. Either that, or you will have a handful of thrown-together DBZ/Eva videos in your hands. Now you may be okay with that...but let's think a little further.

When it's time for us to start our own 5th Mix project, where are all of your editors going to turn when they realize your project isn't going to make it? That's right, they're going to come to us. And all of our editors, who have worked 3 years on the project will have to give up the juiciest tracks to your editors, since their tracks are already done. That's not fair to our editors. If we turn your editors away, that's not fair to them either. So both camps get screwed.

And the issue of "double-dipping": I strongly disagree with Quu and think that there should be no double-dipping between our 4th Mix project (DDR3) and your 5th Mix project. Let's say some of our DDR3 editors decide to also do tracks for your project. Well, when it comes time to do our own DDR4 (with 5th Mix), they're going to come back with completed tracks -- and once again somebody gets screwed because the double-dippers will essentially have bypassed our track selection process, which I am striving to make as fair to old and new editors as humanly possible. That's not fair to the other editors.

So...as an administrator of the DDR Project, I get to be the asshole and say the following: there will be no special consideration placed on anyone who joins Tommy's project. I'm not saying "Join Tommy and DIE!", I'm saying that when we press forward with DDR4 5th Mix, we will assign tracks as normal, and even if you've already done a track for Tommy, you will still have to get in line. If you've completed track 10 for Tommy but a different editor is assigned to that track for us, tough. Same goes with double-dipping. If you work on DDR3 and Tommy's project simultaneously, you are given no priority on your 5th Mix track when it comes to DDR4. This is the only fair way to do it. I'd rather be an asshole and give fair warning right now than have to turn away hardworking editors a year down the line.

I'm sure that pissing a lot of people off doesn't bother you Tommy, but I'm telling you now that a push for a concurrent 5th Mix project is going to cause a lot of problems. You can tell all of us "Too Fucking Bad" once again (like you did to the entire DDR Mailing List), but at least people will now know how we're going to handle things on our side. Our 5th Mix project will proceed as planned.

Nobody opposes you organizing a collaborative AMV project, Tommy...but it'd be nice if you could use an original idea instead of pulling the rug out from an ongoing effort.

TommyRude · Post by **TommyRude** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:41 pm

Kusoyaro wrote:Okay, Tommy. Let's forget for a moment about the fact that you're basically undermining 2 years of hard work by over 50 people, and that you're basically trying to get the jump on our future project before we get to it.

Y'know, part of me actually thought you guys would LIKE the idea. I mean, lets not be REASONABLE here, heaven forbid. All see is someone steppin in your yard, an you get pissed. Well its not your freakin yard! You don't own DDR, you don' own AMVs. You have absolutely no right to complain.
An' if I'm doomed to fail, as you're so fond of pointing out, why do you even care? If you had brain one in the nishapen gourd or yours, you'd save yourself the stress an jus sit back an' watch me fail. Either you'r too stupid to realize that, or you actually DO realize I'm gonna make this work an' you're afraid.

Let's talk about what's going to happen when you push forward with your project.

First off: You have no idea what you are getting into. I guarantee that by your April 1 deadline, you will have less than a 30% followthrough rate. Guarantee. Either that, or you will have a handful of thrown-together DBZ/Eva videos in your hands. Now you may be okay with that...but let's think a little further.

Maybe I don' know what I'm getting into, but unlike most people, I don' let that stop me. See, I'm not content to sit back an let the 'ruling class' handle all the big scrary stuff. I know you would like to believe that there are only 4 or 5 people on the face of the earth who could organize a project like this, but some of us have a slightly more realistic view of the world.

When it's time for us to start our own 5th Mix project, where are all of your editors going to turn when they realize your project isn't going to make it? That's right, they're going to come to us. And all of our editors, who have worked 3 years on the project will have to give up the juiciest tracks to your editors, since their tracks are already done. That's not fair to our editors. If we turn your editors away, that's not fair to them either. So both camps get screwed.

Again wit the doomed to fail thing. Why not jus' sit back an see how things pan out before YOU decide this project isn't goin anywhere.

And the issue of "double-dipping": I strongly disagree with Quu and think that there should be no double-dipping between our 4th Mix project (DDR3) and your 5th Mix project. Let's say some of our DDR3 editors decide to also do tracks for your project. Well, when it comes time to do our own DDR4 (with 5th Mix), they're going to come back with completed tracks -- and once again somebody gets screwed because the double-dippers will essentially have bypassed our track selection process, which I am striving to make as fair to old and new editors as humanly possible. That's not fair to the other editors.

Well I HOPE that when our 5th mix is done, no one will try to pass off the same tracks to yours.

So...as an administrator of the DDR Project, I get to be the asshole and say the following: there will be no special consideration placed on anyone who joins Tommy's project. I'm not saying "Join Tommy and DIE!", I'm saying that when we press forward with DDR4 5th Mix, we will assign tracks as normal, and even if you've already done a track for Tommy, you will still have to get in line. If you've completed track 10 for Tommy but a different editor is assigned to that track for us, tough. Same goes with double-dipping. If you work on DDR3 and Tommy's project simultaneously, you are given no priority on your 5th Mix track when it comes to DDR4. This is the only fair way to do it. I'd rather be an asshole and give fair warning right now than have to turn away hardworking editors a year down the line.

Works for me, although is' quite possible (an' no doubt your intention) that that'll scare people away from my project.

I'm sure that pissing a lot of people off doesn't bother you Tommy, but I'm telling you now that a push for a concurrent 5th Mix project is going to cause a lot of problems. You can tell all of us "Too Fucking Bad" once again (like you did to the entire DDR Mailing List), but at least people will now know how we're going to handle things on our side. Our 5th Mix project will proceed as planned.

Don' mind if I do. *ahem* I'm goin ahead wit the project as planned, an' if that's a threat to your group, or if you feel insulted by that fact, well, TFB. You hear me? I said T...F...B.

The only thing I'm guilty of is working under the delusion that some of the AMV ruling class were decent human beings. As I mentioned before, is' obvious now that their f*ckin' pointless little power games are more important to them than the actual art of makin AMVs. Well for that crime, allow me to say sorry for giving people the benefit of the doubt.

The Wired Knight · Post by **The Wired Knight** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:51 pm

Well I don't mean to sound like a bastard here but I do understand where Hsein is coming from. Basically it's considered along the lines of someone making the same AMV idea as you did. While the idea was fine and more than one person can easily come up with the idea it causes problems. There is inevitable comparison and it ends up undermining not just one project, but both in fact. Now I'm not going into the aspects of creating and upholding the project because I don't know that aspect but I am well versed enough in people doing the same AMV as me. What you are doing basically takes it to a grander scale, and while the idea may have been benigniant things just won't go well in the end for either project.

Hakura · Post by **Hakura** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:15 pm

I dont mean to sound like an ass too..but with your attitude towards this it's as bad as you name "Rude"

I'm sorry bue even if I wasn't part of the DDR Project, I wouldn't join yours simple because of the way you are treating this.

You ARE taking an orignal idea away from the people that came up with it...

Now...I am NOT against you starting your own project..but for heavens sake...try something else..I know I would love to see someone come up with another big group project.

Instead of ripping of a already awsome idea, sit your self down and think of something new.... I think if you could come up with someing new I'd be interested in seeing how this would go.

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:26 pm

TommyRude, I dont want to be the one to state the obvious but here goes...

why don't you just choose something that isn't being planned by the first ddr project? There's more than enough mixes of various things even non ddr - you dont have to do the DDR 5th mix. The primary objection seems to be that you've chosen to do the mix that the ddr project have planned already. Maybe if you do a completely different mix, maybe ask Brad and Hsien about which one then if its a sucess then the first DDR project team probably wont need to do that mix in the future because your one will be good. Or you could easily just choose a different game for variety. If the idea is to get more creators into a large fun collaborative project then I dont see why DDR 5th mix is so important when there's lots of other stuff.

The argument is that there are not enough places and maybe also that you think that the ddr project is elitist. OK, fine - but isn't your point equally well made by doing something that wont step on the original project organiser's toes? I mean, you start your first post claiming to be giving them a hand but now it looks like you want this to be in direct rebellious competition by choosing a mix they already have planned and saying TFB.

As I've said to you before I personally have no objection to you doing a ddr mix project of your own - but if you really want it to be a companion to the original project then ok it but don't do one in competition and especially don't do one out of spiteful stubbornness. If you make this project your revenge for something like not being taken seriously by the ddr organisers then you wont get much sympathy from the amv community. Do a project, it will be great. Just dont wage war on the DDR project - it's really pointless and wont win you any favours.

TommyRude · Post by **TommyRude** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:52 pm

AD: I NEVER intended it to be in competition wit the AWA one. The only people who don't want it to be a companion project are the creators of the first one.
What is so f*cking terrible about making a project wit' hopes of showing it at a con thousands of miles away from the viewing site of its 'brother'? There's no competition, because as is, most west coast fans will never see the DDR project anyway.

Hakura: Well I only pray that we can get along wit'out the artistic mastermind that brought us such LEGENDARY videos as Trigun: Beer.

Look, for the sake of my dwindling sanity, can' y'all jus' grow up? I'm not hurting anyone, an' I'm NOT gonna give up the project. Its too late now an' I've already started handing out tracks. So unless you wanna request a track, shaddap. Sheesh, I'm pretty sure SOMEONE out there thought up the idea of making the hassle of all this more trouble than its worth. Well it ain't gonna work. I'm gonna see this through or die trying.

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:19 pm

TommyRude wrote:AD: I NEVER intended it to be in competition wit the AWA one.

But you are now. You wanted to do the 5th mix, the ddr project organisers say, um, actually we're doing the 5th mix.

If you didnt want to be in competion you'd choose something else.

Your project has only been running a day or so, I really really dont see why you have to continue with it. I think it would be really great for you to do a project but to be all pig headed about it and say 'well screw you' to the ddr project organisers is pretty childish. I know you probably feel that your back is against the wall now but it isnt - the idea is still sound, just not this particular mix.

The DDR Project organisers did NOT say you cant do any mixes, they just said not to do the 5th mix beause that's already being planned. If you'd asked which mixes aren't planned all of this could be avoided.

However now you're just being stubborn about it because you don't want your pride hurt. Tenacity is a good thing but so is compromise and I think it would be better for everyone involved if you do a project other than one benig planned by the original ddr project organisers. I hear they arent planning on doing all the mixes, so ask them.