At what point is constructive criticism no longer useful?

[ExSphere]

thus you get the internet bully stereotype

I am simply disagreeing with him. I'm not calling him names, or making fun of him. I am giving my thought's on his post.

[BasharOfTheAges]

This all kind of brings up another point, why focus on technical bullshit anyway? Honestly now, would you consider a video that was technically perfect but boring as shit to be better than a video that was entertaining but had some ghosting? Any place other than the org this would be a rhetorical question. Here, it's an honest question because 90% of you guys seem to think that getting the AR right is much much more important than actually making something fun to watch. Anyway, if the answer is that an entertaining but technically flawed video is better than a technical perfect but boring vid, then why are we focusing so much on pushing the tech bullshit anyway? If tech is wrong then mention it, but why make it the main focus of constructive criticism?

If you can't bother to do something simple correctly, something that there are tutorials and guides on, why should someone give you the benefit of the doubt that you can do the more complex things you need to do to make a good video?

There's a categorical difference between those two aspects of video making. Technical acumen isn't a good litmus test for ability or dedication..

Why isn't it? (Given the existence of the guides and literally thousands of posts referring to them and linking them - there's your dedication, i.e. initial effort, right there.)

I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it here. I'm honestly interested in people reasoning out what they think and seeing where I can find contradictions that they might have not previously noticed or felt comfortable confronting. Judging by the types of responses I'm getting here, i think it's a "life should be fair" kinda bawwing, but i'll give everyone the benefit of the doubt. We accept social norms and the concept of first impressions elsewhere in social interaction, why is that overly harsh in this instance? Because it's a hobby? Meeting someone at a party is even less formal, and you have the same analogous social dance playing out. First impressions are everywhere. Major technical flaws like bad AR are like being dressed inappropriately, or some sort of mild rude behavior you'd avoid someone because of. Sure they might be a nice person once you get to know them, but it's not unexpected (nor should it be) for most people to not even bother with that guy.

(wow - I think I thought up a pretty damn apt analogy there)

[BishounenStalker]

I think what it all boils down to is that constructive criticism ceases to be useful when it makes creating AMVs a chore rather than a hobby.

The reason we make AMVS and share them with others is because we love anime, we love music, and mixing the two is fun. When releasing a video amounts to a website full of faceless critics telling you what's wrong with it (which is oftentimes subjective as hell), it ceases to be fun, and instead becomes a grueling exercise in Taking Stuff Too Seriously.

It's why I don't hand out concrit anymore, unless I'm explicitly asked to. Not for AMVs, not for fanart, not for fanfiction, not for cosplay. These are fun, fannish, geeky hobbies, not future livelihoods. The majority of people who participate in these activities are just here to have fun.

[-Reda-]

I've been editing for three-and-a-half years now, I've seen enough videos and made enough of my own that no one needs to tell me "You need to sync here" or "This scene doesn't really match those surrounding it".

You do realize that in order to be considered a Master in something, you need to be doing it for at least 10 years right? I think I read that at some point...and honestly, that's a shitty attitude and a weak defense of your point. If years dictate how well your vision is then I think you should listen to the "vision" of people who have been editing longer than you have because they would know better; that's just according to your own logic anyway. Honestly, want it or not, you're going to get criticism. An ignorant man rejects it and thinks he knows everything, a wise man is humble and listens, accepting the fact that what he knows is nothing in the scheme of things. Whether you like it or not, you can learn a LOT from criticism. When I hear what people say about my video, I apply that knowledge to a general pool of "what does my audience look for". You can determine what people like and become more successful.

If you DON'T care what other people think, and you're about to fall back on the defense of "Well I just do this for me", then that's fine I completely encourage that in every way. But when you release a video here, it's not just for you any more. Whether you argue that or not, that's up to you. But if you're just doing it for you, there's no reason to ever release videos. You can keep them to yourself and watch them whenever you'd like. In the meantime, humble yourself and listen to what people have to say whether you like it or not, and use it to improve yourself further.

All criticism is useful in someway, you just need to look into it a little bit and figure out what you want to take from it personally.

Take it from me, I've been editing 5 years

[BishounenStalker]

But when you release a video here, it's not just for you any more. Whether you argue that or not, that's up to you. But if you're just doing it for you, there's no reason to ever release videos. You can keep them to yourself and watch them whenever you'd like. In the meantime, humble yourself and listen to what people have to say whether you like it or not, and use it to improve yourself further.

Maybe it's just me, but I kind of find the bolded part to be ridiculously entitled. Yes, people are going to offer criticism. But just because you give criticism does not mean your recipient is in any way obligated to listen to you and do what you say. They're just as free to ignore you as you are to criticize. It may not make them a better editor, but last I checked, there was no law dictating everybody who posts videos here is required to have a desire to improve.

[Castor Troy]

You do realize that in order to be considered a Master in something, you need to be doing it for at least 10 years right?

I dunno man. All the kids using After Effects nowadays have mastered more shit in 6 months than I've been able to do in 10 years.

[-Reda-]

But when you release a video here, it's not just for you any more. Whether you argue that or not, that's up to you. But if you're just doing it for you, there's no reason to ever release videos. You can keep them to yourself and watch them whenever you'd like. In the meantime, humble yourself and listen to what people have to say whether you like it or not, and use it to improve yourself further.

But just because you give criticism does not mean your recipient is in any way obligated to listen to you and do what you say.

Whether you like it or not, you can learn a LOT from criticism. When I hear what people say about my video, I apply that knowledge to a general pool of "what does my audience look for". You can determine what people like and become more successful.

You don't have to directly follow word for word what criticism says, but there ARE things you can draw from it as an editor and use to your advantage. You'd be an idiot not to take a chance to learn something.

[BishounenStalker]

You don't have to directly follow word for word what criticism says, but there ARE things you can draw from it as an editor and use to your advantage. You'd be an idiot not to take a chance to learn something

But all you're really "learning" in this setting is what a few random people on the internet want to see when you mix anime with a music track. This is not life-altering information, here. So what if they don't listen? They just won't be the best editors out there. That's not exactly something people should be looked down upon for.

The point you're missing, I think, is that criticism is only useful to those who still want to learn and grow and get better. To the majority that are just having fun and don't care, or to those who just aren't looking to improve anymore? It's basically spitting in their corn flakes.

But the fact that you're now calling everyone who isn't 100% dead serious about being an artiste at a fannish hobby "idiots" is precisely why the Org has such a rep of being a festering pit of elitism, by the way.

[godix]

There's a categorical difference between those two aspects of video making. Technical acumen isn't a good litmus test for ability or dedication..

Why isn't it? (Given the existence of the guides and literally thousands of posts referring to them and linking them - there's your dedication, i.e. initial effort, right there.)

Because tech and editing are two different things. Some people like working with filters and so on to get the best possible quality they can get, some people find that very boring. Some people enjoy the artistic aspects of editing an AMV, others view it as an annoyance. They aren't the same thing at all really. Judging AMVs by tech is like saying Van Gogh was a horrible painter because he couldn't make his own paints/canvas from raw ingredients.

If you think about it the type of mentality that's drawn to one task usually is the type that hates the other. Scripting is for the stereotypical nerd who loves programing. Editing is for the stereotypical artist who spouts freeform poetry in coffee houses. Most people aren't at the extreme ends like that of course, but I'd bet if you polled editors you'd find most fall into either the 'like scripting/hate editing' or 'hate scripting/like editing' groups.

That being said, there is a certain minimum level of tech required before you're just a joke. I think it's when the tech is so bad that it would distract from the artistic aspects for the average viewer. Things like subtitles are distracting to most viewers. But I think the level of tech required to be distracting is surprisingly low. As far as I can tell, a lot of people don't notice wrong AR, bad compression, over-filtering, etc. Hell, my wife has trouble even telling if something is interlaced or not.

[Chiikaboom]

wut BishounenStalker said.