Recovering OT Junkie = Bad AMV Editor

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:12 pm

Dannywilson wrote:Julian, quit trying to incite a riot. Carlos, quit kissing Julians ass.

Both of you are perpetuating the elitist image, and contrary to what you may believe, being elitist is not cool, it just ostracizes you in the end.

"Elitist" is definitely the hot-button word of the org. I really don't see how you can justify calling me elitist but, just the same, I'm obviously giving off that vibe if these words start popping up so let me give my case.

What I think most people are mistaking for arrogance or elitism is honesty. This, in my opinion, is a ridiculously soft community. Not a single piece of negative feedback is given, except in the utmost of secrecy, and the highest praise is tossed around like water. It’s kind of like that guy who whenever he watches a movie says "OMG THIS IS THE GREATEST THING IVE EVER FUCKING SEEN!". It cheapens the language.

So much smoke is blown up so many collective assholes on these forums it’s incredible. The primary reason I think, is that since most people here are friends with almost everyone else (especially the OT people, those guys are like a family), everyone is passively encouraged to praise a video or compliment someone’s talent based souly on their like for that individual on a personal level.

If you have a 300 pound girlfriend who asks if she's fat you say a resounding "NO". It’s the same concept. People aren't completely honest with their friends, especially on the internet, where shallow relationships are commonplace.

The fact is, almost all the videos that are posted here completely suck. That’s just the truth. I know I'm not crazy, and I think I at least have decent taste in art, and I swear 99% of everything I see here just completely sucks. I'm not going to go into why I think they suck because that’s pointless. All I know is that people are starting to make worse and worse videos with the same amount of praise. A community that gives constant praise to everything lowers the standards. And surprise surprise, we have terrible videos, and an abundance thereof.

I've watched it first hand by a couple editors (I'm not going to name) who release a terrible video, get outstanding feedback for it, and then continue to make worse and worse videos. Since no one tells them otherwise and/or they don't have the ability to improve without help, they keep making pieces of shit. It’s either that, or I'm absolutely insane and don't know what good music videos are.

I'm not trying to cause a riot, and I certainly don't think myself as the hot undead shit. I take these things very seriously and it irks me when people with real ability and real effort get the same sort of plastic lip service that these no-talent ass clowns receive in droves every time they slap together their latest abomination.

I think in this frantic race the org has undertaken to eradicate anything resembling elitism (your practically burned at the stake if your a confirmed elitist) we have gone a step to far and bounced to the completely opposite, and equally detrimental, side of the spectrum.

P.S. The only reason I'm writing this essay is because I feel somewhat responsible for the thread as I said this first back in the "OT is removed" thread.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:30 pm

Beowulf wrote:Since no one tells them otherwise and/or they don't have the ability to improve without help, they keep making pieces of shit. It’s either that, or I'm absolutely insane and don't know what good music videos are.

So what are you waiting for? I believe Omni addressed this point months ago - if you know you're great and you know everyone sucks and will continue to suck without you telling them exactly how much they suck, then go tell them so they can improve. Take those 99% videos you hate and tear them apart so the editors know how bad they are. If they can't improve without you, then why sit back and talk about it? Go help them. If you want things to get better, don't blow around smoke, get out there and make it better. If you know best, go share the knowledge. Sure, some will ignore you, others will take it as flames from an elitist, but if it's your perogative to tell 99% of the editors they suck, then get out there and tell them to their faces. Take those horrible vids you're seeing tossed out and explain how bad they are. That's what the review system is for. Omni even made a thread just for this sort of thing - so the 1% greats could educate the bad editors. But you know, no one helped him aside from the very editors he was aiming to correct - only a few newbie editors had the time to try and help each other. Why?

If you know it's bad, and you're certain enough of it to complain about it, certain enough of your own skills to identify the fact that nearly everyone else sucks, why not *use* those skills to fix the problem? If you see the errors, point them out. If everyone else is too 'nice' to speak up, do it for them - correct their mistakes.

A thread like this serves nothing aside from angering people. If you know best, and have the ability to recognize perfection, then go out and use that. What's stopping you? It takes a few minutes to write a large post like that. It takes a few minutes to watch a vid and write small 'to-the-point' review that will undo the mindless praise people dish out - just review the vids and say "this is wrong, watch this vid to see what is right." If you know what is good, then surely you can think of the perfect vid for every type of vid and use those as examples. You don't have to take hours to make a review, just tell everyone "That is wrong, if you want a vid for that, then make 'this' vid, do it like 'this' creator.'

Want to make a difference? Then go make a difference. What's the point of complaining about something that you have the *ability* to change with just a little effort? If you know and 99% of the rest of the people don't know, then get out there and tell them. If you've watched that many bad vids, then you have a lot of reviews to give, don't you - lots of useful reviews in which you can say in 5 words or less "you suck, stop editing." Simple, quick, and efficient.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:36 pm

EarthCurrent wrote:Is it just me, or is the amount of unhelpful, discouraging "elitist" bullshit being posted to the org even higher now that the OT is gone?

One has to wonder...

I'm halfway inclined to necropost SpPanda's thread aobut AMV creators being assholes.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:37 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:I'm halfway inclined to necropost SpPanda's thread aobut AMV creators being assholes.

Don't do it, you'd probably get banned or something.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:44 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Dannywilson wrote:Julian, quit trying to incite a riot. Carlos, quit kissing Julians ass.

Both of you are perpetuating the elitist image, and contrary to what you may believe, being elitist is not cool, it just ostracizes you in the end.
"Elitist" is definitely the hot-button word of the org. I really don't see how you can justify calling me elitist but, just the same, I'm obviously giving off that vibe if these words start popping up so let me give my case.

What I think most people are mistaking for arrogance or elitism is honesty. This, in my opinion, is a ridiculously soft community. Not a single piece of negative feedback is given, except in the utmost of secrecy, and the highest praise is tossed around like water. It’s kind of like that guy who whenever he watches a movie says "OMG THIS IS THE GREATEST THING IVE EVER FUCKING SEEN!". It cheapens the language.

So much smoke is blown up so many collective assholes on these forums it’s incredible. The primary reason I think, is that since most people here are friends with almost everyone else (especially the OT people, those guys are like a family), everyone is passively encouraged to praise a video or compliment someone’s talent based souly on their like for that individual on a personal level.

If you have a 300 pound girlfriend who asks if she's fat you say a resounding "NO". It’s the same concept. People aren't completely honest with their friends, especially on the internet, where shallow relationships are commonplace.

The fact is, almost all the videos that are posted here completely suck. That’s just the truth. I know I'm not crazy, and I think I at least have decent taste in art, and I swear 99% of everything I see here just completely sucks. I'm not going to go into why I think they suck because that’s pointless. All I know is that people are starting to make worse and worse videos with the same amount of praise. A community that gives constant praise to everything lowers the standards. And surprise surprise, we have terrible videos, and an abundance thereof.

I've watched it first hand by a couple editors (I'm not going to name) who release a terrible video, get outstanding feedback for it, and then continue to make worse and worse videos. Since no one tells them otherwise and/or they don't have the ability to improve without help, they keep making pieces of shit. It’s either that, or I'm absolutely insane and don't know what good music videos are.

I'm not trying to cause a riot, and I certainly don't think myself as the hot undead shit. I take these things very seriously and it irks me when people with real ability and real effort get the same sort of plastic lip service that these no-talent ass clowns receive in droves every time they slap together their latest abomination.

I think in this frantic race the org has undertaken to eradicate anything resembling elitism (your practically burned at the stake if your a confirmed elitist) we have gone a step to far and bounced to the completely opposite, and equally detrimental, side of the spectrum.

P.S. The only reason I'm writing this essay is because I feel somewhat responsible for the thread as I said this first back in the "OT is removed" thread.

The majority of ass kissing and smoke blowing I see is in the Op Trading forum. Everyone basically trades straight 10 reviews with eachother. The two times I tried to give honest reviews and opinions my video's scores were shockingly lower from the people who got the semi-negative reviews from me. (coincidence?) So the majority of the damage is being done there, not the OT posters or forums themselves.

But so far the only OT poster I know of firsthand that makes crappy videos (at least in my opinion) that gets outstanding praise is fyrt. (Panda does too but I actually see alot of quality in them.) But if anyone else does let us know, or tell me in a PM because I'm curious to know about this list of OT posters that are getting worshipped for crap videos.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:48 pm

oh and one last thing

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=elitism

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:04 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:The majority of ass kissing and smoke blowing I see is in the Op Trading forum. Everyone basically trades straight 10 reviews with eachother. The two times I tried to give honest reviews and opinions my video's scores were shockingly lower from the people who got the semi-negative reviews from me. (coincidence?) So the majority of the damage is being done there, not the OT posters or forums themselves.

But keep in mind that the people usually exchanging vids in that area tend to be poor editors more often than not. Even those who try to be 'critical' are going to get the scores wrong because they don't spot everything. And the 'good' editors rarely go in for more than a few vids before disappearing again - doesn't do much to make that forum a good place for anything more than a quick review.

And not everyone in there trades scores for scores, thank you ever so much. I may inflate my reviews because I'm not good enough to know better, but I don't give 10s just because someone gave me 10s. I've done more than my share of reviews where I took an al 1s review and repayed the favor with a completely honest (if slightly inflated due to noobishness) review. I don't score my friends any better than I do people I hate. It isn't everyone, or the entire forum that's messed up. Just a good majority.

Don't think the entire forum is useless just because you got bad exchange partners. >.<

Kamoc · Post by **Kamoc** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:28 pm

J-0080 · Post by **J-0080** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:32 pm

So true kamoc, your something of a strange, random, humerous voice of reason....who draws in MS paint.

danielwang · Post by **danielwang** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:54 am

J-0080 wrote:So true kamoc, your something of a strange, random, humerous voice of reason....who draws in MS paint.

Could be.

I have to agree that lots of videos here suck. But which ones suck the most?! Sucks so much Phade keeps it off the Donut harddrives and on a ZIP disk sealed with warning tape lest it be accidentally d/l?

My videos, silly. I use downloaded footage that's VERY VERY BAD!

If 99% of videos suck, that's 99% of thousands of videos. And you have reasons for why they are bad? Write a honest honest review. And with most videos, such as mine, SUCKING, you'd better get started on it.