Fanservice in AMVs

Pas · Post by **Pas** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:17 pm

Arigatomina wrote:Right there is the problem with this thread. Since when was there something wrong with being superficial about the shows you watch? That's like saying you should have a morally superior and respectable reason for preferring chocolate milk to the plain kind. Why? There's nothing wrong with liking your milk sweet. There's nothing wrong with liking your entertainment especially entertaining (by having more, in excess, of the things that make it entertaining to you in the first place).

I'm surprised this thread got so long. The first post was ridiculous. "Keep the fanservice to a minimum unless there's a specific reason you're putting it in". Uh...since when? Why? Because you said so? Yeah, okay, I'll do that 'cause you said so. Just like the effect whores stop using effects when people tell them to "keep effects to a minimum unless there's a specific reason you're putting them in." Right. And we'll certainly never see another Naruto amv, since people have been telling them to stop for, oh, a few years now.

Come on people. Would a thread that starts out saying "Keep the action to a minimum unless there's a specific reason you're putting it in" get this many responses as if we all acknowledge that there's something morally wrong with being superficial and preferring our anime one way or another? It's anime. Entertainment. These are amvs made from anime. Show me an amv fan who has non-superficial (and thus morally respectful) reasons for liking what he likes and I'll show you a liar with a big head.

I gotta agree with that. Anime is made for entertainment, and despite what people may say, many people enjoy fanservice. Just because it doesn't fit with your moral codes, that doesn't mean it should be removed.

It's like getting rid of anime because someone complained that it was "indecent"

Not gonna happen.

JudgeHolden · Post by **JudgeHolden** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:08 am

This thread is so full of win ....

LONG LIVE FAN SERVICE!

Emong · Post by **Emong** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:23 am

Arigatomina wrote:Since when was there something wrong with being superficial about the shows you watch?

Since a person, who is superficial about a show he likes, is not aware of the line between fiction and reality.

Well, of course he is aware of that. Everyone knows that, right? But it's not what it's about. You can watch a show just for the sake of sexy girls, and while it's superficial, it's not "wrong" as you call it, because the people in the show aren't real and therefore they're just plain objects for you as a viewer. However, it's not about that, but the reason why you're being superficial about the show in the first place. And if you want to claim that there's nothing wrong with being superficial, then go ahead and act like that and we'll see what happens. Movies and reality aren't two totally different realities because the world(s) of movies reduce to the real world. You like watching sexy girls in movies because you like sexy looks in reality, too.. However, it's so every-day people aren't aware of that. We're in fact all very superficial, and it would be plain hypocritical to claim that "I'm not", because it just isn't possible.

Imo, there's always something "wrong" in watching fanservice, unless you have an incredible talent of acting and thinking totally different about movies and the real world. Of course there's always people who claim they indeed think and act that way, but I don't think it's even possible in the first place. As if you were a totally different person when you're watching a movie :/ Of course the difference between watching a movie and acting in real life is big, or at least when we're talking about a healthy person who can use his common sense, but the roots are all the same.

Anyway, I put "wrong" in the quote marks because I think it's hypocritical to claim that wrong. It's like claiming being a human is wrong. Watching fanservice in a superficial manner is wrong when you seriously aren't aware of the superficiality in what you're doing or really can't see the difference between a fictional world and the real world or at least when you act like there isn't any difference.

imho..

Emong · Post by **Emong** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:26 am

Emong wrote:We're in fact all very "superficial"

Fix'd

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:50 am

Emong wrote:And if you want to claim that there's nothing wrong with being superficial, then go ahead and act like that and we'll see what happens.

Fair enough. I'll go right ahead and enjoy my fanservicy amvs without feeling wrong or guilty about it, and we'll see what happens. ^_^

SarahtheBoring · Post by **SarahtheBoring** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:47 pm

Emong, I think you're jumping to a whole lot of conclusions. Actually, I think it's a little ironic that you're stabbing at people who "can't tell the difference between entertainment and reality" while saying that your entertainment preferences and what you do in real life are one and the same. Um... that's not necessarily the case. I love the pants off Trigun but have no interest in gunfighting in real life. My friends go target shooting all the time, but I never go. It's meh. Reality does not equal fiction.

So... maybe you can't put reality and fiction in different contexts. I can. I'm not a different person. But I view the subject matter differently. Just as my attitude at work is different from my attitude at home, and both are different from my attitude on The Internet. I find it hard to explain, because it seems like human nature to me.

Anyway, I have no interest in gunfights and I can't even be bothered to learn swordfighting in real life, but I think they're interesting to watch. I hate hate hate angsty drama and emotional manipulation, but think that they can make for interesting stories. I think most people are the same way. Anime is not real life. That doesn't make either of them "wrong."

Emong · Post by **Emong** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:39 am

SarahtheBoring, we're propably just approaching things from two different directions. I don't see the irony in what I was trying to say in my previous posts, as I never said fiction equals to real life. Or if I said that, I explained it wrong, which happens to me quite a lot. I was trying to point out they're separate - of course they are - but there would be no fiction without reality. If you're looking at an anime series, any anime series, you will notice it has hell of a lot of similarities to reality. It has stories you can appeal to, or can't but you know what they're about. Those stories and characters (characters that are strangely similar to real people..) evoke emotions and thoughts in you, very often those very same thoughts and emotions you can have in real life, too. Actually, I could go so far as to say that the emotions and thoughts you experience in movies are always real, since you as a real person go through those. Sure, they're in different contexts and all, but they're real emotions and thoughts all the same, no matter what caused them.

I was trying to point out the difference between reality and fiction, but it's not like they're two totally separate things. As I see it, the only thing that separates those two is that what happens in reality is real and what happens in anime (for example) is not, but it's not like you couldn't find anything similar between fiction and real life.

And what comes to the attitude question.. First of all, we're talking about attitudes. A person can have various different attitudes depending on the context. But it's not like you're a totally different person at work or at home. I do know what you're talking about though, and I agree with you to a certain extent. Because I, too, act different on the internet for example. Heck, I even act different on different forums. But it's not like the input I get from different forums and the thoughts and emotions the input arouses in me are totally different on each forum. It always goes through some context filter, but there's not a totally different person receiving the information on each forum. It's the output that is different, the outputs that are similar yet different depending on the context and the attitude.

It's seems a little like a contradiction to me to say you have no interest in gunfights yet you enjoy watching them. Well, you might not want to experince it yourself, but you're interested in it nevertheless by enjoying watching it. It's not like I'm saying you're only interested in fictional stories because you want to go through them personally. It's most likely the case in fanservice or porn though, I think, but it certainly doesn't work like that for everything.

SarahtheBoring wrote:I hate hate hate angsty drama and emotional manipulation, but think that they can make for interesting stories.

Indeed, but you only enjoy it when you know it's not real. Man, you could enjoy it even if you know it's real but not in a causal relation with you or the people around you. I'm not saying you do that though. It was just an example of some people

But, anyway, if you truly hate hate hate angsty drama and emotional manipulation, then why are you watching it and wanting it to arouse thoughts and emotions in you? What you see is what you get.. Well, personally, I love Elfen Lied and I love it how it makes me go through certain (in real life: negative) emotions. However, I only enjoyed - and notice the word "enjoyed" not in a hedonistic way - watching it because I was constantly aware that it wasn't real. I wouldn't want to go through the same process by watching the events of Elfen Lied in real life. Or if I did, then it would be... wrong?

It's not wrong to have an emotion or wanting to experince that emotion, and it could be the very same emotion no matter if you're watching real life events or fictional ones. So, I'll repeat myself: it's only wrong when you seriously aren't aware of the superficiality in what you're doing or really can't see (AKA be aware of, to know) the difference between a fictional world and the real world or at least when you act like there isn't any difference.

Man, this going way off-topic.. And I'm starting to sound ridiculous. But, hey, that's philosophy.

Willen · Post by **Willen** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:09 am

JudgeHolden wrote:This thread is so full of win ....

LONG LIVE FAN SERVICE!

So says the man with boobies in his sig.

SarahtheBoring · Post by **SarahtheBoring** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:39 am

OK, "approaching it from different angles" is a fair statement.

Though I am not a fan of ending a post with a tiny row of text. It's one of the more annoying memes here. If it bears saying, say it out loud and stand up for the consequences. If it doesn't bear saying, don't say it at all. Of course, people love to draw attention to themselves. "Look at me!!! I'm not *really* saying this, but you have to go through another step in order to read it, teeheehee aren't I clever." Sigh.

Emong · Post by **Emong** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:09 am

SarahtheBoring wrote:Though I am not a fan of ending a post with a tiny row of text. It's one of the more annoying memes here. If it bears saying, say it out loud and stand up for the consequences. If it doesn't bear saying, don't say it at all. Of course, people love to draw attention to themselves. "Look at me!!! I'm not *really* saying this, but you have to go through another step in order to read it, teeheehee aren't I clever." Sigh.

You nailed it. Man, gotta love meta-discussions....