Thoughts on substance in AMVs

[Willen]

Isn't bringing out emotions or relating to them the hallmark of some of the better songs? Sure, some songs do try to tell a story, but some of my favorite songs are essentially nonsense, sung in such a way that it creates an audible canvas. The fact that songs can get linked to memorable times in one's life are indicative of the fact that they provoke emotional reactions.

I think that for some people, they come into viewing a new AMV with pre-conceived expectations based on their past experience with the song or anime in question. Other people may have fallen into the trap of treating a song's lyrics too literally and if the AMV doesn't follow, then to those people, it fails on some level. Just because a song's lyrics mention a rose doesn't necessarily mean that there better be a goddamned rose in the AMV.

This might be the problem that some people had with Jihaku. It wasn't made to tell a specific story.

It's a video about life in general, a confession about life, full of passion, rage, deception, determination, desire to fight, desire to give up. A complete theme, without judgment, just a backward step on the life, nothing else.

Unlike The Race which also uses a multitude of anime but to tell a specific story. People "get" The Race, but some people didn't "get" Jihaku. Those that did, "got" different things. To some, it had an optimistic view, to others, pessimistic. Jihaku was designed to evoke an emotional response, good or bad, positive or negative. What you "get" depends on your feelings of the song used or the anime scenes used. Even the mood you are in while watching it changes what you think of the video.

Now, let's take Euphoria. First off, what the hell is the singer saying <a href="http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/ ... 9FEF">?</a> Secondly, this AMV has no relation to the anime that was used in terms of storyline. In fact, Euphoria is the perfect example of the kind of AMVs that Koop tends to make - very conceptual, where the anime's job is to enhance the song with visuals using scenes that reinforce the lyrics, but again, WHAT THE HELL IS THE SONG SAYING? What the AMV does do well is convey the feeling of a dream.

Euphoria is the first part of a two-part video series I have planned with a central theme of dreaming.

And, I think it does it very well. People get so focused on the effects, its ranking in the top AMVs, and the hype about its status in AMV history, that they over-expect things. To expect a story from an AMV that is about dreaming is pretty weird to me. At least I know my dreams have no storyline to them, at least not any coherent storyline.

Theme/Concept AMVs seem to be the most misunderstood category since many of the things that they are trying to convey get easily misinterpreted. There are some universal themes like Love that don't properly resonate if the person is not in the right mood or frame of mind.

I've watched videos that concept-wise, had great potential and if edited differently, would have scored higher in my book. I don't think I've ever bashed the concept of any video, just the execution. I won't pretend to know what an editor had in mind for a video when they edited it or how close it came to their initial concept. I only know whether that final product made me feel something or, if the editor stated the concept in the video description, if it actually came close to me seeing it.

[Kalium: Link fixed.]

[Willen]

Crap, stupid link breaking the page width.

[Arigatomina]

.. Sure you personally may not enjoy it, but that doesn't mean that what other people make is junk, its just how they like to create and edit. If you really insist on thinking that videos that don't have stories are junk, then you need to re-evaluate what an amv is...

He never said he thought other people's videos were junk if they didn't have a story. He said he didn't want to make amvs if he had to rely on a story as presented by the music and/or anime. It's that 'music and/or anime' story he was calling junk. He made no judgement on other people's videos at all. He was talking solely about *making* amvs. o.O

Don't fall into the category of people who think that creating some sort of narrative is the only way to present a video, it'll only hinder you from realizing that there's much much more you can create but not limiting yourself to a linear story.

What happened to what you said earlier about it being up to the creator how he decides to make his video? The entire thread started because you didn't like people telling you your videos lacked something because they didn't have a story. How are you any different from them when you tell other people they lack something because their videos *do* have a story?

[sarcasm/

Don't fall into the category of people who think that creating some sort of narrative is not a valid way to present a video. Why shouldn't you fall into that category? Because I said so. Because I think think it would limit you and what I think should matter to you.

/sarcasm]

If you outlaw any sort of storytelling, you're limiting yourself a lot more than those who prefer using stories. You can do anything with a story-based video. There's only so much you can do with a emotion-based collage of images and sound.

Consider this: it's the story that makes people attach emotions to anime scenes. Unless you're catering solely to those unfamiliar with the anime, you're using the associations the viewer already made to the anime story in order to do your emotional collage. Even those who've never seen the anime build their own story - not to annoy you by reading a story into it that you didn't intend - but because it's very hard to have an emotional response to something that means nothing to you. I take the images you give me in your vids and sort them so they have some meaning to me. Yeah, that means I infer a story that makes the characters and scenes matter to me. If I didn't, they'd just be random images that inspire no emotion at all.

Emotional collage vids are enjoyable when they work. But they won't work for viewers like me if we're told to stop instinctively viewing the random scenes and sorting them into a pattern that means something. Abstract art is only good when people can look at it and see the story the creator was trying to hide or make unrecognizable. If they can't find anything, it's just random shapes in possibly pretty colors and interesting textures. You don't seem to be using anime as *anime* - animated stories. But even if you were using entirely original abstract scenes, your viewers would still try to contrive some meaning out of it. And it's only natural for people to put that meaning into the form of a story.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Do you want to get people to agree that editors like you should be free to avoid anything resembling stories while editors who like stories should be taught to stop limiting themselves and to do things your way? Or are you just trying to find out what other people think about the issue? If it's the latter, don't lecture the people who have an opposite opinion from you. They're as free to edit the way they want as you are, even if their way is as alien (wrong, limiting) to you as your way is to them.

[JudgeHolden]

Well, I have very little to add other than my own perspective on what I do ….. Which is I do what I feel like doing at the moment. Panty Raid! Does not have substance to it, and you feel it needs it, well than I feel for you. On the other hand, I did A City Divided because I wanted to create something that meant something to me. So, are “substance” and “story” important? Well, it depends on what you are creating ……

JH

[Keeper of Hellfire]

...

X2. That sums up my thoughts on this matter very well, better than I could ever do in English.

Though Arigatomina gave an indirect answer to this, I'll give a direct one:

So, if you make a video that is commemorating something that has happened in your life and nobody else gets it, then its meaningless?

Of course it is meaningless to anyone else but you in this case. If you release it, you should expect and respect peoples opinions on this. Since noone gets it, what else should they tell you as "random clips to music", "no story" or the like? Because that's what remains if the original idea behind it is stripped.

[JaddziaDax]

or you could tell the people the meaning so they can get it... and not be stingy about it O.o

[JudgeHolden]

or you could tell the people the meaning so they can get it... and not be stingy about it O.o

But, I like to be stingy! o.0

[Knowname]

"I didn't see a story at all, it was just a bunch of random shots set to blah blah blah.."

LMAO! I probley put that.

here's my take on amvs that have no story. I respect the author if the rest of it shows some effort, I assume I missed whatever story they portrayed. An AMV without story is like a kid out in left feild laughing at all the cloud shapes. how does it affect me?? It doesn't, your stupid. (ie Osaka in AZU), it just doesn't make any sense and is naive. CAN it have substance, sure, alot of ppl like Osaka! (I do the monkey see monkey do thing a bunch myself!! It's entertaining!! ... but it wastes everybody else' time) But the point is it's incredibly naive and usually only results in an amv only you would like.

I do, however highly respect creators that can successfully make such 'spaced out' videos with substance... you know who you are.

To me, the amvs I create are about expressing those emotions, thoughts, and views, not about creating a story for which any onlooker can just quickly glance and realize what it is they are seeing. I've always said that I created videos for myself and creating non-linear story driven videos are proof of that. I watch my videos from time to time, I don't watch them to rewatch the story, I could just watch the anime again if I wanted to, but that would take too much time, I watch them to relive those emotions that I purposefully embedded in the videos that I created for myself.

in fact I had just made a video like that lateley, the thing honestly, has no story. Wich was in fact probably greatly (GREATLY) influenced by the video I love to hate, Waking Hour. When putting the info page for Shine, I couldn't put drama up cuz... there's no story. Whatsoever. Somebody put one, and it's basically the anime backwards... but, it's not intended. there's no story, it's just about emotions.

So I'm gettin what your sayin'... I'm just not buyin' it -_-

[Cornwiggle]

A story, to a point...but not really.

As long as a video has some sort of THEME, I like that. Whether it be about 2 characters' rivalry, a character tribute, a fight from a series, or telling the story of the anime, that's good.

I just don't like AMVs that use random fight scenes for no reason. When I was first getting into AMVs, I used to watch DBZ vids, you know...that were like ALL that...and now I don't know why I did.

They're more fun when it's about something, you can see how good a job the editor did to accomplish this, and it leaves you with an impression.

[Inuyasha the 3rd]

Substance on AMV's doesn't really matter. It just depends on what are you trying to achieve in a video. Not ALL AMV's half to have a story to make a "good video". It can be some semi-generic action video (if done right..) and I'd still enjoy it. But the way I look at this substance thing. It varies from concept to concept. That's my two cents on this.