Effects Discussion

[Corran]

The effects I use are usually invisible to the viewer. Sometimes it is removing someone from a scene or simply forcing a scene to work that otherwise wouldn't. For my current video things will be a little more apparent for those looking for the effects, but I still don't think I'll have digital effects a votable catagory for opinions... Basically I try to use effects to make things work or to enhance a part of the video that would have been bland otherwise.

[Flint the Dwarf]

telling a story...

vs.

random goofiness...

Can random goofiness be actually HARDER than telling a story?

Depends on what kind of story we're talking about. If it's just a retelling of the anime, then no. However, some people just lack the ability to keep a video's story coherent if it's not already a part of the anime. So it depends on the person. Some people are great storytellers, and some are great with action. And, of course, some are not great at either.

[Arigatomina]

If that's the evidence, then wouldn't it be safer to conclude that storytelling is not the easiest part? I mean, if you ask all of those creators, many of them will tell you that they were trying to tell a story - and clearly not succeeding.

Yes. ^_^ That's exactly how I see it, because I *know* they were trying to tell stories in some cases - I've even talked to a few creators who explained exactly what story they were aiming for - and I still couldn't see it.

Maybe it's more accurate to say that good storytelling is not easy, which is somewhat ironic since AMV source material comes from stories.

This is what I believe is true. I may have detailed stories I see when I watch my vids, but if others don't catch that story, then the storytelling was bad. Yes, it's easy (imo) to match up scenes to tell a story for yourself, but doing it so the story is there for others to see without you giving a commentary on the entire vid? That doesn't seem to be easy around here.

As for effects, I always assume a tradeoff: effects or story...more of one means less of the other. This is especially true for public exhibition where people will see your work only once. Since you only have a few minutes, you have to decide what you want people to notice.

And once again, you hit my opinion. ^_^ Complete agreement here. Of course there are *some* vids where the effects *are* the story - crossovers in particular, those that only use effects for flashback/dream sequences/memory/insanity flashes - storytelling 'effects'. For those, the effects are necessary and bring the story out so it's easier for viewers to catch. But I find that a majority of 'stories' are hidden and obscured by effects - the vids may still be great to watch (fun), but the story is lacking for me. I'd consider it a trade-off. It's rare to find a good effect vid that also has a well-told story that I can grasp (especially for anime I haven't seen).

[jrodegheri]

A good AMV is not necessarily one which tells a story. It may or may not, this is not what is going to define whether it's good or not. AMV is, or should be, ART.

Art is something which captures people's imagination, you have a trip when you see/listen/read it. This is good art.

telling a story...

vs.

random goofiness...

What's wrong with "random goofiness"? Remember the introduction of Disney's Fantasia! There are several kinds of music, the voice said, some tells stories, some don't, but both kinds may be very good.

Good art is the kind which touches you. It doesn't matter whether they are of the kind which tells a story or not.

The same about AMV's. And how do they touch you? It doesn't matter. They make you laugh? They make you cry? They make you dream? They make you relax? It doesn't matter, as long as they don't make you wonder "how much more of this I'll have to endure?" and check the remaining time to see if you'll be able to watch it to the end before losing your patience and clicking the stop button...

"fit the song"?

Is that beat match or lyric match? If it's neither then that's something for "thematic match".

When I said "fit the song" I didn't mean "fit the song" in a way we can define in a mathematical formula "lyrics X rhythm X melody : movement X faces X etc". I meant "GO WELL TOGETHER". How? Why? It doesn't matter, as long as the combination "song/scenes" touches you. It doesn't matter whether it's because the lyrics match the scenes, or because they are sarcastically different, or because the melody accompanies the action, or because this combination creates interesting expectations etc.

Many people loved the clips in Alan Parker's "Pink Floyd, The Wall", but incredibly there are clips there with very slow or even romantic music in war scenes, depressing music in Tom & Jerry excerpts!, screaming music in love scenes etc, and Parker accomplished to do it all greatly!

Nobody will ever define what's the formula which makes a scene "fit the song". But some of these combinations touches lots of people, and some others are stone cold, even though technically perfect and with elaborate special effects...

Still, just cause it's easy doesn't mean it's "sub quality".

That's what I mean, the same way just because using lots of special effects is very difficult it doesn't mean we have to consider the result "high quality"

[Arigatomina]

My main point in making the thread was to learn why people like effects, what makes them use them, why they like seeing them used, and what they think when they see them - what the effects mean to the viewers. And this pertains to storytelling because that's my choice of amvs.

Yes, I enjoy an effect vid that is meant to be random fun - those are enjoyable to watch and don't require anything more than a nice beat, good visuals, and a lack of thinking to watch. I also enjoy effect-filled action vids - some tasty eyecandy, nice flashy visuals, random but intense fighting rhythms. But I watch those vids in moderation - my main course are the story vids.

No one said a good vid had to tell a story, but the word 'good' is defined by people's opinions, a 'good' vid is one that a person likes and thinks is better than others. For me, a good vid is one that tells a story. I wouldn't say other vids aren't fun, but they aren't as 'good' as story vids because I prefer story vids. Good is a judgment call that a viewer makes - in which case there's no need to argue about it. You simply make your opinion, state it if you wish, and others can agree or disagree and go on their way.

But because I prefer vids with stories, I find effects to be a huge distraction from some of the amvs that *do* seem to be aiming at a story. When I watch a 'story' vid, I see it as a mini anime - it has it's own soundtrack, and it tells its own story. These are not vids meant to recap a certain part of an anime (a fight scene, a few fight scenes, the slapstick scenes jumbled to form a fun medly, the romantic scenes put together in a row to form a romantic collage of images over a soft track). Those vids can be covered in effects and so long as those effects fit the music (and preferably the footage), it won't bother me a bit. I enjoy them as much as the next person.

It's only when I see vids that are clearly aiming to tell stories (often subtle stories that do not call for random bits of effect images superimposed over the footage) - then I start to dislike effects on principle. I don't believe story vids are what amvs should aim at, but for me, they're the ones I love to watch, and the ones I choose to make. But they're also the ones that most often seem 'bland' and 'effectless' and therefore boring. People start adding in the eyecandy because the footage itself isn't enough. They add in effects because the drama isn't intense enough without some outside addition. And then it distracts me. And I start wondering why people do that - why take a good story and hide it behind flashes and meaningless images (meaningless to the uninformed viewer).

I don't have any grounds to argue with how someone makes his 'artwork' or the meanings he might see in the formation of that artwork. But I can still ask. That's the intention of this thread - to learn why people like them, why they use them, why.

This thread has been very informative for me. I still don't understand why every amv I've seen without effects gets complaints that it didn't have *enough* effects. Surely there are some that simply don't need them. But I think it has to do with the fact that a lot of the viewers making those comments didn't reply here - so I may never find out why people's first instinct is to say "add effects and it will be better" regardless of the type of amv it is. I'm still glad to hear some opinions on the matter. ^_^

[AbsoluteDestiny]

I think the VCA this year will decide which kind of effects people like.

You have the ultimate in glitz effects with Euphoria, the ultimate in style effects with Playground Love and the ultimate in footage creation effects with Virtua Anime

It will be interesting seeing what people think is the best "use" of effects.

[Tash]

and Task

I'm more into the playground Love style so thats what I voted for.