Stop the LIP FLAP!

[risk one]

I think being against lip flap per se is dogmatic. Most of the time it's used badly, but when used with moderation in the right circumstances, I think it can improve the impact of a clip. It just has to be used conciously and very carefully.

Especially small, important exclamations against instrumental audio can do quite well. Unless of course your viewer has been conditioned against lip flap so strongly by bad videos that he can't appreciate good lip flap anymore.

[SarahtheBoring]

Now I want to have Very Important Conversations That You Can't Hear in every single video I make forever, just to spite you.

Anyway, while guidelines are useful when one first starts out to avoid common newb pitfalls, ANY guideline can be broken under some circumstances. (Even cutting not on time can conceivably be used for a good purpose. It's probably been done before.) It just doesn't make sense to be rigidly dogmatic about anything. The trick is knowing whether you know what you're doing to the extent that you can break "rules" skillfully and with purpose. Most people can't. I know I can't, but I respect that it's possible sometimes.

In other words, "generalizations are always wrong."

[Arigatomina]

I'd definitely like to see less flapping mouths during still scenes. When you zoom up to show the emotion in the character's eyes, I don't want to be distracted by her/his mouth. I seriously doubt most people intentionally let flapping mouths be the only movement in otherwise still scenes - they aren't doing it for artistic impact, they're doing it because it's easier to leave it and claim a 'deeper meaning' than it is to do a little editing. The only time I don't mind flapping lips being the only motion in still scenes is when they match the subtitles - in which case, the vid is already screwed, so a little gum-chewing won't make much difference.

Keep in mind that I get complaints for every bit of lip flap I leave in. That was the first complaint I received for a vid, and the only one I've gotten consistently no matter what sort of amv it is. I even get at least one person griping for those 'dramatic' mouth movements (like a character lunging forward and crying - any lip movement is evil to some people). Once I noticed how annoying lazily-left flap could be in my own vids, I started reacting the same way to other people's vids.

I'm not an extremist - I *still* let some mouth movements slip into my vids no matter how much the occassional person gets annoyed by it. But excessive flap, when the mouth is the only thing in motion, is just as lazy as not cutting around subtitles.

[The Wired Knight]

Less woudl be fine but as Castor said, ther are times you ca't help it becaus you need a certain shot like running or partying and they are still just talking. Still shots however, yeah, you could probably edit around it. Otherwise it just seems odd that their mouth is moving or it looks like a failed attempt at lip synch.

[Pwolf]

http://pwolfamv.com/amvguide/stillmask.html

i should use a different example for "lip flapping" but the concept is the same...


Pwolf

[Corran]

Here is a couple lyrics from a song I'm listening to:

"When you touched my face
When you call my name
I'm burned with desire
But you left me in the rain"

Everytime I imagine editing to that section I see lip flap on the "When you call my name". While it isn't lip sync at all I would try my best to find a scene where it looks like the person is calling out to someone. I think this would be a good example of when lip flap is not always a bad thing.

[Pwolf]

Here is a couple lyrics from a song I'm listening to:

"When you touched my face
When you call my name
I'm burned with desire
But you left me in the rain"

Everytime I imagine editing to that section I see lip flap on the "When you call my name". While it isn't lip sync at all I would try my best to find a scene where it looks like the person is calling out to someone. I think this would be a good example of when lip flap is not always a bad thing.

i agree... i used some lip flap for EBYT in one scene cause it made sense, but if i had kept lip flap in my other videos like ATWCD, it would ruin everything, so i edited my footage

Pwolf

[JaddziaDax]

I think if its kept to a minimum then its all good... I dont mind a few here and there, but when people let scenes drag on for too long and let them just yap away, it can get boring quick...

[Keeper of Hellfire]

Stop making stupid threads!

I hate people which only think "Black and White". Let me tell you something. Not only that there exists an infinite number of grey between them, an infinite number of colors exists too.

While it may be lazyness by the majority of editors to leave lip flap in, there exists many reasons beside lip synch to keep the lip flap or to intentionally put it in. In my last vid it cost me more effort to keep lip flap in one scene because I did rotoscoping and it meant I had to edit more frames to keep it, since the mouth was the only moving part.

[FoxJones]

It's not that hard to edit around lip flap!

But I chose not to. I have talked about this one before and it seems I need to do that again.

The reason why people nowadays see lip flapping a problem is the amount of lip syncing done. Some people... they see good lip sync here and there and they automatically assume every AMV needs to have lip sync. It doesn't matter to them if it actually makes the anime less fitting the music/lyrics.. It just has to be there. Even with instrumental AMVs it's "See! His lip moved! AND IT WAS NOT SYNCED!".
When the lip sync/lip flap is needed/should-be-cut-out depends on the AMV. I agree there are times when lip flap is bad, and lip sync is good. But going on like "STOP THE LIP FLAP ZMG TRNNT IT'SREI!" is wrong. There are times when seeing a character not talking feels more stupid than a "lip flap". "so why not lip sync it?", some may ask.. There might be several reasons why not. Female singing, male character talking.. Singing is intensive and lyric based, following the quiet and moody scene.. Like eg. character confessing her/his love to the another character when the music is reaching its' peak, creating a turning point in the AMV's story. And so on...

Some examples from my own AMVs. (this is not pimpage.. I just know my own work best :3) I tend to leave the lip flap in because of the extra movement it creates. Best example being my latest School Rumble AMV (others interested in what I rant here should check it out for reference.. Adv1sor: STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM IT! It has lip flap..you were warned). It's based on retelling the SR ep22 where they have the kibasen-fight. Music is just something epic I picked for spice.. I chose Duel of the Fates for storytelling purposes. There's major lip flapping going on. Students talking to each other.. on and off "horse"back. What they say is up to the viewer's imagination. That is the whole point. Viewer may decide to follow the original episode's lines, or just go with the flow with his/her own imagination. The storyline is also altered a little for this reason too. Now if you have seen it, try to imagine the same thing with all the lip flapping removed. I personally think that that would suck (even more). It's either the people don't see this, they are unable to use their imagination, they are spoiled/ruined by lip sync AMVs or I just plainly fail at AMVing.
Other good example is my Otaku Paradise AMV. Most of what is just said also applies to this one. In Otaku Paradise there's one very long scene with maids in the courtyard are listening one of the maids telling a story while Genshiken clips are crossimaged behind her. It's one of my favourite scenes in that AMV, and it's also the one people complain about most. Makes me go "eh" I admit that Otaku Paradise has few lip flaps that I should have left out and they bother even me a bit. Like the scene where Tarou is in hid bed. But then again OP isn't my best AMV
So.. There is also times when I DO remove the lip flap. Yes, there are occasions when even I feel the lip flap shouldn't be there. For example something like what's mentioned before in this thread.. "zooming into character's eyes". Problem with these edits is that when they are not visible, they aren't appreciated. It's very rare that the AMV-viewer notices that "hey.. I thought that in this scene the character talked.. wow, he removed the lip flap". I actually do a lot of editing and finetuning in my AMVs. I even alter the images a lot sometimes. There are times when I have done so and I get opinion like "I didn't see any effects so I didn't give any score in that". This is what makes me feel really good =^_^=

Adv1sor.. the long story short:
Lip flap as a problem is case sensitive. While there are bad lip flap AMVs out there, lip flap as itself is not a problem. It's inside your head.. deal with it or stop whining about to completely stop doing it. Beauty of this .org is that you may dislike or like AMVs as you choose and then delete the ones you didn't like.