Digital Effect vids vs. Simple Digital Effects or none vids.

SnhKnives · Post by **SnhKnives** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:34 pm

but you have to look for that stuff as a veteraned AMV viewer.... If you a noob who likes pretty colors, i can understand. But those of you who have MADE amvs.....you should understand....

btw Zarxrax.....I love your avatars

godix · Post by **godix** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:03 am

Zarxrax wrote:Elvis vs anime is not loved for the effect, it's loved for the video itself.

The effect IS the video itself. Can you honestly say the video would have been anything more than average if he didn't use that effect? Another good example would be the beloved Odorikuruu. Don't get me wrong, I do like these videos and am not trying to disparage them, but they would pretty much suck without the effects.

Zarxrax wrote:And as for Koops video being liked solely for the effects, can you seriously believe that?

Yes I do honestly believe that and to some extent I even agree with it because I've never seen the anime so the story means little to me. Go look at the opinions, those that mention anything specificially mention the effects (and not all say good things, there are several saying basically the same thing I am). If you have an effect only video go compare it's ratings to your more meaningful ones, on my videos there's almost an entire point difference in the star ratings (none of mine have enough ops to reasonably compare their scores). Hell, compare Euphoria to <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... 8566">this video</a> which IMNSHO does a better job of telling the story and happens to have roughly 66,000 fewer hits and a lower score average. Everything I've seen indicates that most like Euphoria for it's effects and without them I doubt the video would be even half as popular as it is.

As a total side note, how many people are registered on the org? Euphoria has over 66,000 hits and I was under the impression that there's only 30 or 40 thousand users total.

SnhKnives · Post by **SnhKnives** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:04 am

whenever you click on the link it registers as a hit....

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:08 am

godix wrote:As a total side note, how many people are registered on the org? Euphoria has over 66,000 hits and I was under the impression that there's only 30 or 40 thousand users total.

155,620 members, last time I reloaded the Members Main Page.

godix · Post by **godix** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:08 am

Ah, that would be it then. I was under the assumption it kept track of users and wouldn't register multiple clicks from the same user. God knows why I was under this assumption, now that I think about it keeping track of that would be a total pain in the ass and pointlessly take up resources.

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:15 am

Godix I think you aren't understanding what I'm getting at. I'm not trying to say that the videos would be just as good without the effects. The effects ARE what makes those videos. The effects are core to the fundamental design of these videos, just like I said in my first post. It is the DESIGN of these videos that makes them great, not the effects. As far as doing elvis vs anime without the effect... actually I'm working on a video right now where my original plan was to do something along those lines... a style like elvis vs anime without the rotoscoping. My design has greatly changed and evolved over the course though, but anyways... I do think elvis vs anime could have been just as good without the rotoscoping. But it wouldn't have been the same... and it wouldn't have been what Sierra Lorna set out to create.

godix · Post by **godix** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:18 am

I get into more arguements where it turns out I basically don't disagree with the other guy but just misunderstood something they said. I'd consider taking a reading for comprehension class if arguing wasn't so fun...

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:23 am

godix wrote:If you have an effect only video go compare it's ratings to your more meaningful ones, on my videos there's almost an entire point difference in the star ratings (none of mine have enough ops to reasonably compare their scores).

Alright.

NES Project Track 38 - TheStarMan (2003-09-29)
[hits: 1412][opinions: 5][star count: 241][star avg: 4]
Easily has the most, and BY FAR THE BEST effects of any of my videos so far. Wow, 5 opinions. Its been out nearly a year.

The Fanservice Video: Bouncing Back For More (2002-04-26)
[hits: 19530][opinions: 39][star count: 913][star avg: 3.81]
No real effects. Wow thats a lot of opinions. And the star rating is very close.

Doujin Addiction (2003-02-26)
[hits: 15398][opinions: 56][star count: 1633][star avg: 4.04]
This one has medium effects. Nothing too fancy though, I was just learning After Effects at the time... didn't have any idea what the hell I was doing.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:30 am

SnhKnives wrote:whenever you click on the link it registers as a hit....

Yep, you'd have to go by how many times it's been downloaded (for local, this is usually close to accurate for how many have gotten it as members here). ^.~

As for the debate... I haven't seen that many effect-vids that I watched more than once or twice. Most of the ones I watched were either lacking in that 'key' which holds my attention, or were just too distracting from the anime used. But of the ones I remember, I think removing the effects would kill the video. It might still be a good video, but it won't be the same vid. Effects in some vids may just be icing, but it's that extra touch that makes them special - makes them stand out as different from the usual action/romance/drama/fun/etc vids. In its genre, Euphoria stands out because of the effects. Without them, it might still be a great dramatic video - but it'll be a soft one. It won't be the same, and it won't appeal to the masses the same way it does now (as surprising - the effects, and lovely - the anime). I'd have to watch the anime to know if there's a story there, but it did look like there was one. It just didn't have that 'key' - that 'catch' in the footage. The effects were the attention getter.

I think it comes down to what it takes to *hold* your attention. If you can rewatch something and be riveted by the visuals alone, then all you need is a pretty anime overlayed with tasteful effects. If you require something that makes you think, or feel - story vids, then effects can add to it or distract from it. It depends on the viewer. But if you're watching something once - that first impression is all that matters. When you talk about videos competing in a con, you're talking about one-shots. They have to either catch the viewer with some sharp effect, or be so powerful the viewer is still thinking about it after the others show. Most of the very good story vids I've watched required at least two viewings to really appreciate what makes them so good. After that, it's obvious why they're great vids. But if I flashed by them at a con, and then was blinded by a pretty effect vid (so quick there's no chance of catching the concept unless you watched it before hand), then I'll probably lean for the effect vid - even though I scrape the sugar off my donuts (meaning, I don't care much for the extra coatings). I'll choose the effect-laden video because it has the better 'first impression.' After that, some viewers will continue to be riveted, others will go home and watch something of a different type. But it won't make any difference because the con is over.

Think of a good joke versus a touching story. The joke, if done well, will have you in stitches immediately. The story may require you to think about it before you grasp what makes it good. If you only get to hear or read each of them once, which are you more likely to appreciate if someone asks you afterward? Good jokes don't get old, they just get predicatible. At the same time, a touching story is more powerful with each reading.

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:31 am

More numbers, even though they weren't asked for:

always (2003-04-06) [hits: 4249] [ops: 18] [stars: 178] [star avg: 3.62]
Mostly subtle effect work. If you had never seen Evangelion, you wouldn't have known half of the stuff I did -- it would have looked like it was all part of the original footage. This video is very slow.

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DDR Project 4th Mix Track 12: era (hubris) (2003-09-27) [hits: 1424] [ops: 2] [stars: 181] [star avg: 3.79]
Blatant shininess. You don't need to have seen Shamanic Princess to know what I did. This video is very fast.

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...and forever [dreaming] (2004-04-15) [hits: 195] [ops: 1] [stars: 43] [star avg: 3.95]
A lot of very subtle manipulations. This video is very slow.

The star averages, while increasing, don't drastically differ between videos.

I don't think the correlation between the ooh-shiny factor and popularity is all that strong. Popularity is complex, but I'd say that a song that many people can enjoy is more important than ooh-wow effect work.