Star Ratings in the Announcement Forum

[Phantasmagoriat]

Well, if you want to do that, nobody is going to stop you, but if you can only express your opinion in terms of a 1-5 scale and 'Shitsux or Goodstuff' then that's something I think you can work on. You're not a robot. You're a DINOSAUR, and dinosaurs know how to describe what they think!

Okay, jokes aside, I hope you know what I mean >.> Comments are much more meaningful than ratings.

[dreamawake]

That's true, but again, I don't see how banning the use of ratings is going to change anything in that regard.

[Phantasmagoriat]

hmm... let me make a slight change to the issue in the first post, because I'm not saying we should ban the use of ratings completely. I realize some people are not good at expressing themselves, or simply don't want to go through the hassle.

Revised Issue: Whenever possible, I think publicly leaving star ratings in the Announcement Forum should be discouraged, in favor of descriptive, meaningful comments.

[Infinity Squared]

Think what it would be like if every response in the announcement forum encouraged discussion instead of blunt evaluation of videos.

Probably just more stuff for me to ignore. After editing all this time and reading comments given to other people's videos, I've heard practically every advise there could be given about a video. To be perfectly honest, I already know what people are going to say about my video even before I release it as a consequence.

It's useful for someone who just started editing yesterday, but in truth, editors who have been at it for a while are probably more just concerned about increasing that prescence they have rather than improving their editing.

If I were to be even more cynical about it, having an overly long diatribe of what's ok or not in a video is possibly even something that editors don't want to be seen publicly. One of the attributes of a mature editor is that they have ideas of how they want their videos seen and this sort of response becomes a spoiler of sorts.

[Phantasmagoriat]

Interesting thoughts, I think I know what you mean.

I guess it becomes a question of who we should focus on then.
There will always be people that want to focus on improving (typically New Editors), and those that are content with their videos and just want to make announcements... without having the same conversations over and over again (typically Veteran Editors). Yet as a Veteran, blunt evaluation isn't going to tell you anything that you didn't already know. If I make a comparison to the study in my first post, Veteran Editors are like the high-performing students in Group_C. Even if you give them Comments, they just look at the Rating; they are happy with their performance; and feel no need to improve; rendering any Comments useless. If the Rating is left out, the Veteran is much more likely to pay attention to the Comments, thus improving without even realizing it. Of course, if comments become too in-depth, that's what QCs and OPs are for...

Basically, my point is that it's totally possible to leave a comment without including a rating, or spoiling a video, and everyone will be better off because of it.

[Arigatomina]

Basically, my point is that it's totally possible to leave a comment without including a rating, or spoiling a video,

Agreed. I don't think anyone is debating that.

...and everyone will be better off because of it.

This is the big question. You keep assuming people want to improve or are obligated to improve. No one has to improve if they don't want to. Some people resist improving with all their strength. We're not the students in your study where we're all in this expecting and waiting to be given a grade that may have a profound affect on our careers and life after graduation. We're hobbiests, all of us having our own motivations and goals.

After a certain amount of time some people become happy with the way they edit. Their goal is to *not* improve because improvement means change and they don't want to change anything about what they do. Their motivation for posting announcement threads is to share what they've made. They may not even be interested in whether people liked or disliked the vid as long it's being watched. These aren't the high performers in your class, they're the cynical adults who've long since done their time in schools, and who roll their eyes at the thought of a bunch of kids striving for high scores likes dogs jumping for treats. They don't look at ratings, they look at who posted in their thread and where that editor falls in the totum pole of the org. The numbers they receive are meaningless because they're already far more skilled than most of the people leaving those numbers and they know it. They're beyond scores and have been for a long time now.

Others make amvs just because they can, they make no effort because they don't have to, they don't improve because they don't care to. Their motivation is just to make and share something they had fun doing. They may not resist improvement, but they make no effort because improving is meaningless to them and takes more time, time being more precious than anyone's approval. These aren't your low performers, they're the high school drop outs who are working in McDonalds because it makes just enough money to pay for their night life while they live out of mom and dad's house, and that's all they need to be happy. They don't look at scores, either, they look at views. The more people who clicked the thread, the happier they are. Scores are just things over-achieving "serious editors" fuss over because they're trying too hard. If those fussy people want to give low scores to their sub-ridden vids, that's their problem. It certainly won't stop these editors from getting their reward with as little effort as humanly possible.

Really, I think your study says a lot about academic settings, particularly in the US where schools have to meet state standards and kids are getting dumber every year. But it doesn't apply to amvs very well. We're not forced to do this like people are forced into public schools. We don't further our careers by doing this like people who go to college. We're not forced to have our amvs graded, or to pay any attention to the grades we do receive since most 'grades' here are a matter of opinion and not right or wrong fact. Some of us do care as much as the students in your study do, but a lot of us don't and have no reason to. You have to include all of us when you talk about amv fans who post in the announcement section, or amv fans in general. What's "better" for one group is a waste of time, if not an outright annoyance, for another. There are a lot of people here for whom scores are everything, but there are just as many people for whom the scores are random numbers that mean nothing and are only typed in because you can't watch a local vid or leave an op without doing so.

[Phantasmagoriat]

This is the big question. You keep assuming people want to improve or are obligated to improve.

Sorry I jumped the gun there, it's just my opinion. I only bring this up because I think I have a pretty strong case why people should omit ratings in their public comments. I simply present the study as a comparison. Whether anyone thinks it's relevant to AMVs is up to them to decide. Omitting the star rating is a simple action, no more difficult than including it. I just want to raise awareness why people may or may not want to do so. I'm probably coming across as making too big a deal out of this, because really, we're just talking about the difference between simple comments like these:

1. "Good job. I liked the atmosphere in this AMV."
2. "Good job. 4/5"
3. "Good job. I liked the atmosphere in this AMV. 4/5"

The differences are subtle, but each comment has a different effect. And it might be good to be aware of it.

[JaddziaDax]

Truthfully I usually ignore ratings when given to me.

[Knowname]

I try to treat announcements as.... simply announcements and not 'pimp my video' threads. Unlike what you'll find AMV announcement etiquette thread I'd appreciate it if ppl saved their comments for private matters such as ops. My basic reasoning is, take any other kind of announcements, such as a housewarming party or a baby shower. Do you really want homeowning tips or parenting tips at the actual party?? No. take it to the appropriate place thank you.

[Knowname]

In other words I'm saying no to star ratings AND no to comments, other than 'yaaaaaaaaaaaay' or even 'this sucks'. Maybe a short reason why, but leave the ACTUAL critique for the ops thx. for the announcement thread, watch the video once and leave your initial imoresion. If you like it so much or you just want to be an ass and comb through all the mistakes or positives in multiple viewings, do it in an op! Put the appropriate comments into the appropriate place!