What if org had to shut down?
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Flint the Dwarf
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:58 pm
- Location: Ashland, WI
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Lyrs
- Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:41 pm
- Location: Internet Donation: 5814 Posts
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Navi en Grey
- Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:57 pm
hahahaha-
Flint the Dwarf
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:58 pm
- Location: Ashland, WI
Such as Demonseal.
Kusoyaro: We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.
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Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
- Contact:
Great topic. ^_^;;
If the org shut down, I'd probably go back to my little under 5mb demos, sending out the large quality version to those willing to suffer through the long aim transfer. Eventually I might even get a real hosting site for my vids and link it to my main website. That was my plan before I donated to the carrot, after all. Without the org none of that would change - I'd just go back to what I was using before.
I'd miss the system, though. I never had a chance to watch this many vids before (even with the old direct & indirect only hosting here). I can't use file sharers, so finding a stash of this many vids that can be downloaded from one site is rare. I'd probably be limited to the large dbz collection sites. It would be interesting to go back to that after being here.
And the reviewing system - complain all you want about it, but for me it served a purpose. Looking at the scores and rating system gave me a way to be critical about what would otherwise be counted as 'art'. It's like grading poetry - you can't because there isn't a set guideline to tell you how to rate it. With amvs you can look at certain aspects and see places for improvement aside from the art itself. Without that I doubt my editing (not my artistic nature, not my storytelling, not anything that people seem to think amvs are *supposed* to be about) - my damn editing would never have improved. You can be the most artistic creative person in the world, but if you know shit about cutting clips and actually *editing* that creativity is practically useless. The review system may not help the creativity level rise, but it's definitely useful to those who lack the 'editing' skills and experience to know what to do to let them express that creativity without making some splashed fingerpainting portrait that hides whatever art it was trying to present.
As for elitism - even when complaining about elitism, you see the elitists looking down on the average editors. You don't have the right motivation, you don't think of this the right way, you are wrong and I am right because I'm good. Blah. What's the difference between competition at a con and competition here? According to one person in this thread it's that people at a con are closer since they're all editors and share the same mindset (or something along those lines). But it's still just a panel of judges and anyone who strives to win their approval is no better than the ones who strive to get high marks on the ratings at the org. Both are competition, both wanting to 'win' or improve to look better before the viewers - the only difference is for some reason people think it's bad to use the org as motivation to improve while it's okay to use cons as motivation. That makes perfect sense....but not to me.
Anyway, a person's motivation is private. Without the org or the rating system here you'll still have the people who push and push wanting to win at the cons and showings, wanting to take home the awards. Maybe they won't get a permanent spot on some top list, but they'll have that award so they'll still be just as elite. The org may further elitism by making it a little group competition on a daily basis, but until the anime contests stop pitting amv editors against each other, making amvs will continue to *be* a competition. You can either wash your hands of all of it (stop sharing the vids with people who will compare your work to other vids), or admit that competition is engraned in most artforms.
Think of an artform that isn't marketable, one where people aren't trying to sell their work (whether the award is approval or cash). There aren't that many. Having amv making be a competition doesn't stop it from being an artform, it doesn't ruin the quality of the art. It just keeps the 'art' alive by giving it a spark of motivation. Only the religious poets wrote because it was God's will - the rest (especially Shakespeare, poor King's man that he was) did it because to make art was his life and to continue improving was to get even more acceptance. Without competition, I seriously doubt he'd have written much at all. Maybe he had the wrong motives according to those people who believe you should "make art for art's sake" - but that doesn't make them any more right than him.
I see no change in amvs without the org except accessibility. As long as the cons continue the editors will have a place to compete, that motivation will continue to be a factor. All that would change is fewer people will have access to amvs, less vids to compare, and the number of good amvs at cons will be limited to those who can afford bandwidth and who either already know how to make great vids, or who can learn on their own (I'm sure other guides would pop up, other places to pit vids in online competition). If anything, it would make the elite editors even more elite since they'll be among the few great enough to catch the attention of the masses. And I'm sure they'd love that. Never again would they have to worry that their position as 'best' would be infringed apon by a bunch of dumb viewers who voted a newbie vid higher than their own. The judging would be limited to those who *know* what's good - the con judges.
My point? The org may inspire elitism, it may promote competition, but at least it does allow unknown editors to enter *into* the field. And I'd like to hope that it allows more people to become aware of cons - possibly even opening that range of 'knowing' competition to have a wider variety than the same 10 editors at every amv showing. From what I've heard, cons were a lot more elite before the donut, get rid of this place and I'm sure it would go back to that. Which probably would be nice for a few people.
It doesn't make much difference to me. ^_^; I've gotten a lot from the place, all I need to continue making amvs that I like watching. My only regret would be that I'd have no hope of ever seeing such a wide variety of vids (elite vids and beginner vids) all in one place where even the poorest editor has the opportunity to become popular. And don't tell me people don't want to share their work. Maybe they don't want world-wide popularity (top lists, cons), but they wouldn't be putting the vids up if they didn't want someone out there to enjoy them just as much as they do. And one thing you can say for the top lists - they place certain vids where everyone can see them. Without it, the place would be a large collection of vids with the few gems hiding amidst all the rest.
And take it from a noob, if you watch videos at random (never touching the top list) you're likely to think the average video is bad. If you're a beginner you'll emulate that poor quality (editing, not artistic nature). If you start by looking at the top lists it changes everything - especially for those who know crap about editing and music.
I'd miss the hosting service most if the org is shut down, but mainly I'd feel bad for future editors who won't get to come in here and learn about editing. Maybe few actually bother to learn here, but without the place they wouldn't even have the opportunity to learn. That would be a shame.
If the org shut down, I'd probably go back to my little under 5mb demos, sending out the large quality version to those willing to suffer through the long aim transfer. Eventually I might even get a real hosting site for my vids and link it to my main website. That was my plan before I donated to the carrot, after all. Without the org none of that would change - I'd just go back to what I was using before.
I'd miss the system, though. I never had a chance to watch this many vids before (even with the old direct & indirect only hosting here). I can't use file sharers, so finding a stash of this many vids that can be downloaded from one site is rare. I'd probably be limited to the large dbz collection sites. It would be interesting to go back to that after being here.
And the reviewing system - complain all you want about it, but for me it served a purpose. Looking at the scores and rating system gave me a way to be critical about what would otherwise be counted as 'art'. It's like grading poetry - you can't because there isn't a set guideline to tell you how to rate it. With amvs you can look at certain aspects and see places for improvement aside from the art itself. Without that I doubt my editing (not my artistic nature, not my storytelling, not anything that people seem to think amvs are *supposed* to be about) - my damn editing would never have improved. You can be the most artistic creative person in the world, but if you know shit about cutting clips and actually *editing* that creativity is practically useless. The review system may not help the creativity level rise, but it's definitely useful to those who lack the 'editing' skills and experience to know what to do to let them express that creativity without making some splashed fingerpainting portrait that hides whatever art it was trying to present.
As for elitism - even when complaining about elitism, you see the elitists looking down on the average editors. You don't have the right motivation, you don't think of this the right way, you are wrong and I am right because I'm good. Blah. What's the difference between competition at a con and competition here? According to one person in this thread it's that people at a con are closer since they're all editors and share the same mindset (or something along those lines). But it's still just a panel of judges and anyone who strives to win their approval is no better than the ones who strive to get high marks on the ratings at the org. Both are competition, both wanting to 'win' or improve to look better before the viewers - the only difference is for some reason people think it's bad to use the org as motivation to improve while it's okay to use cons as motivation. That makes perfect sense....but not to me.
Anyway, a person's motivation is private. Without the org or the rating system here you'll still have the people who push and push wanting to win at the cons and showings, wanting to take home the awards. Maybe they won't get a permanent spot on some top list, but they'll have that award so they'll still be just as elite. The org may further elitism by making it a little group competition on a daily basis, but until the anime contests stop pitting amv editors against each other, making amvs will continue to *be* a competition. You can either wash your hands of all of it (stop sharing the vids with people who will compare your work to other vids), or admit that competition is engraned in most artforms.
Think of an artform that isn't marketable, one where people aren't trying to sell their work (whether the award is approval or cash). There aren't that many. Having amv making be a competition doesn't stop it from being an artform, it doesn't ruin the quality of the art. It just keeps the 'art' alive by giving it a spark of motivation. Only the religious poets wrote because it was God's will - the rest (especially Shakespeare, poor King's man that he was) did it because to make art was his life and to continue improving was to get even more acceptance. Without competition, I seriously doubt he'd have written much at all. Maybe he had the wrong motives according to those people who believe you should "make art for art's sake" - but that doesn't make them any more right than him.
I see no change in amvs without the org except accessibility. As long as the cons continue the editors will have a place to compete, that motivation will continue to be a factor. All that would change is fewer people will have access to amvs, less vids to compare, and the number of good amvs at cons will be limited to those who can afford bandwidth and who either already know how to make great vids, or who can learn on their own (I'm sure other guides would pop up, other places to pit vids in online competition). If anything, it would make the elite editors even more elite since they'll be among the few great enough to catch the attention of the masses. And I'm sure they'd love that. Never again would they have to worry that their position as 'best' would be infringed apon by a bunch of dumb viewers who voted a newbie vid higher than their own. The judging would be limited to those who *know* what's good - the con judges.
My point? The org may inspire elitism, it may promote competition, but at least it does allow unknown editors to enter *into* the field. And I'd like to hope that it allows more people to become aware of cons - possibly even opening that range of 'knowing' competition to have a wider variety than the same 10 editors at every amv showing. From what I've heard, cons were a lot more elite before the donut, get rid of this place and I'm sure it would go back to that. Which probably would be nice for a few people.
It doesn't make much difference to me. ^_^; I've gotten a lot from the place, all I need to continue making amvs that I like watching. My only regret would be that I'd have no hope of ever seeing such a wide variety of vids (elite vids and beginner vids) all in one place where even the poorest editor has the opportunity to become popular. And don't tell me people don't want to share their work. Maybe they don't want world-wide popularity (top lists, cons), but they wouldn't be putting the vids up if they didn't want someone out there to enjoy them just as much as they do. And one thing you can say for the top lists - they place certain vids where everyone can see them. Without it, the place would be a large collection of vids with the few gems hiding amidst all the rest.
And take it from a noob, if you watch videos at random (never touching the top list) you're likely to think the average video is bad. If you're a beginner you'll emulate that poor quality (editing, not artistic nature). If you start by looking at the top lists it changes everything - especially for those who know crap about editing and music.
I'd miss the hosting service most if the org is shut down, but mainly I'd feel bad for future editors who won't get to come in here and learn about editing. Maybe few actually bother to learn here, but without the place they wouldn't even have the opportunity to learn. That would be a shame.
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Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
- Contact:
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My Flint.