Deleting posts

[trythil]

examples

I know where those came from...and I can agree on the first three. The fourth, however, I don't really see as a flame. No, it's not because it's jbone and I've learned to expect that from him; it's because I just don't see it as offensive. Colorful, yes. Offensive, no.

Except for one, those are taken from one section - the General AMV section - all of which are on the first page. Now take that and multiply it by however many pages you have in that section. It makes for a lot of nasty useless posts.

I wouldn't call that a very good extrapolation. I just read all the threads on the first page of General AMV, and yes, there are some rather nasty posts. However:

- In most cases, a flame is usually balanced out by someone telling the flamer to shut up.
- I just don't see the quantity of flames that I SHOULD be seeing if that were to hold.

Then go into the other sections and start looking at the flames - they're everywhere.

*looks*

...

Huh?

OK, so I don't go to General Anime. If that's where the flames are contained these days, I'd say that that's not too bad...every culture needs a place to vent. I've never noticed much flamage in AMV Contests or AMV Suggestions.

General Video, Video Software Help, and Video Hardware Help seem to have the same rules of flamage applied, with one additional rule -- anything blatantly stupid is usually smitten pretty quickly.

AMV Announcements -- I'd expect to see a large number of flames here, but I just don't. I went back about six pages of threads to see what I could find, and this was the closest thing I could find to a full-out flame war, and the funny thing about that thread is that the creator of the thread brought it upon himself in the subject of the thread.

It seems that my definition of an unfriendly community is different from yours. Oh well; these things happen.

Perhaps writing something similar to a spam-filter, which takes examples of flame-posts and goes through the entire forum database to see:

- how many candidate flame-posts there are
- the context in which these posts appear
- the responses to these posts

would be a good idea. I don't believe that it's possible to just say "oh, this place has a large number of flame-posts, it must be unfriendly" for the reasons I listed above.

--

Flint: I'm quite aware that it's spelled "Aryan". (Though, I did find this article on "Arianism" and "Arians" to be interesting.) It was a terrible pun, but I'm glad that nobody exploded over it.

[Arigatomina]

Well, unlike last time, I won’t argue over how frequently flames come in. Sadly, I’m tired of it, and this is not my battle. I didn’t register the first complaint, so I don’t think it’s up to me to prove there is a problem. A number of people posted in this thread complaining aside from myself – if nothing else that shows it is not just me this time – and last time a few tentative new members also spoke up about being verbally attacked. I’m not making anything up.

Also, the end of that long thread in the past was a single to-the-point post in the line of:

“If you see a problem with flames, then note the posts where the flames happen and drop the links in the Mod’s Drop Box. They will be taken care of accordingly.”

I took that to heart last time. I tried that. And all that happened was a few threads were locked completely – no warnings to the flamers, nothing but punishment to the people trying to have legitimate on-topic conversations. I know for a fact that Paulo has made it a habit to post links of flames in the mods’ box – and those threads remain untouched, his posts deleted within hours with nothing done.

This isn’t an argument about whether flames exist or even whether the community should be as friendly as a certain admin claimed it to be. This is an argument about the rule against those posts, and the fact that nothing is done about it – even when the posts are brought to the attention of the mods. I realize that first example was noted by other members – regular members explained that the behavior was not really the ‘best’ way to take out frustration. So that thread never got put in the mods box – it was taken care of without them having to intervene. Other threads were not resolved so quickly, and members made sure to point them out – but nothing was done about it. At most, a thread might be locked to keep the useless posts from becoming a regular flamey spamfest.

And maybe they aren’t as bad as it looks on the surface. But in the last few weeks I’ve seen new member after new member making posts in the wrong sections (or the right ones) and getting greeted with instant flame and/or hostility. If we don’t need a welcoming section because “I’m sure people will welcome you with open arms” then the response to those first ‘intro’ posts should be toned down. In the past there was a way around it – those greeting new members in the ‘AAM’ section tended to be the ones who were happy to explain where to ask questions, to answer the basic questions almost every new member comes in with, and to give that ‘welcome’ greeting. Now, the welcome new members get is a sharp flame or simply spamming ridicule.

I know I’ve said it before, but if the site doesn’t want new members, simply close the forum to new members. There’s no reason to attack people when you can keep them from joining in the first place. It’s a cycle, you know? That first (and one of the worst) flames I noted was made by someone who’s been a member for only a few months – now sounding like one of the older members who would normally be flaming him for his grammar and spelling. Some despise the treatment and promise themselves never to treat others like that. And some accept it as what EC dubbed the ‘trial by fire’ and take pride in inflicting that treatment on as many ‘noobs’ as they can. Why? Because once you start flaming noobs you aren’t a noob anymore? Does joining the flamers keep you from being targeted yourself?

Or is it because it’s an online forum? So that means you can’t ask for improvements in an online community? People in an online community are incapable of being civil to each other? I don’t believe that.

[paizuri]

Seriously I prefer your spam than the flames posts

Aren't they one and the smae? i fail to reason how you can not have seen that fact.

A nice angle - the only difference is that flames are 'on-topic' because they are in direct regard to either the post, or the person making that post. Also, a flame is hateful while spam is merely chat. Still, both are useless - one is deleted and the other isn't. Acknowledge that both are useless and unpertaining to amvs and you can delete them both.

Flames should be as easy to get rid of as harmless spam is. Unless we *like* the hate and dislike the neutral boredom.

But what does it matter, really? I made another complaint about this exact same thing months back, after watching silently and noting the behavior. If General OT were open, you'd find that huge rant here:
http://animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15437
I received a substantial response from the community, nearly 10 pages before the spam set in.

You know what the members said back then? "It's not so bad, it's harmless fun, you'll get used to it."

Know what? I'm still not 'used to it,' it's still just as bad as it was, and it isn't now nor was it ever 'harmless fun.' But people are still spouting 'ignore it and it will go away.'

I've waited almost 9 months for it to go away. I can only imagine how long other members have been waiting. Problems don't go away unless you admit they exist and do something about them. Ignore it and I guarantee - in another 9 months someone else will be posting, lodging a complaint about the same problem. Because it doesn't end until you *make* it end.

That was a good thread you made, I moved it to Site Announcements so people could read it. We had hoped that people would just grow out of it, but I guess it's seen as accepted behavior by some to mindlessly flame anyone that likes DBZ or doesn't seem to know what's going on immediately after registering. I will start warning and banning people that I see who flame needlessly but feel free to PM me if I happen to miss some offenders. I still hope that people clean up of their own volition rather than needing to be slapped around and I know that some people still won't shape up regardless, but hopefully it'll make a difference.

[Arigatomina]

That was a good thread you made, I moved it to Site Announcements so people could read it. We had hoped that people would just grow out of it, but I guess it's seen as accepted behavior by some to mindlessly flame anyone that likes DBZ or doesn't seem to know what's going on immediately after registering. I will start warning and banning people that I see who flame needlessly but feel free to PM me if I happen to miss some offenders. I still hope that people clean up of their own volition rather than needing to be slapped around and I know that some people still won't shape up regardless, but hopefully it'll make a difference.

That thread came after hiding for months, and it's still an embarrassment to me. ^_^;; But if it did some good, then I'm glad.

Thank you *very* much for replying to this. You've just reaffirmed my belief in this site. ^_^

[Cyanna]

And maybe they aren’t as bad as it looks on the surface. But in the last few weeks I’ve seen new member after new member making posts in the wrong sections (or the right ones) and getting greeted with instant flame and/or hostility. If we don’t need a welcoming section because “I’m sure people will welcome you with open arms” then the response to those first ‘intro’ posts should be toned down. In the past there was a way around it – those greeting new members in the ‘AAM’ section tended to be the ones who were happy to explain where to ask questions, to answer the basic questions almost every new member comes in with, and to give that ‘welcome’ greeting. Now, the welcome new members get is a sharp flame or simply spamming ridicule.

Indeed.

Fortunately when I joined we had a board "All About Me" where "Hi! I'm new!" posts were welcome. And although I recieved a good welcome, that's really just because I passed the newbie hazing. I wrote a lengthy paragraph introducing myself and I used decent grammer. After reading the forums and getting a general sense of the community, I figured it would be the best approach. I had fair warning. Most people don't.

However I was really nervous the first time I posted a vid (NGE was the anime and it was made in WMM) and made a post in Announcements. Scintilla is my witness that I was worried that someone would post something like "Why don't you do the forum a favor and shoot youself?" after seeing my AMV just because I used Eva and Movie Maker. I am happy to say that it never happened.

Don't get me wrong. There are a number of wonderful people and I don't regret posting here. It's just that I've met 10 year olds online who have a better grasp on civility then some people. Civil online communities DO exist. I help moderate one.

And I also say thanks, paizuri. I'm glad that something productive will take place.

[)v(ajin Koji]

why don't we just ignore flamers?

:¬ /

[Cyanna]

why don't we just ignore flamers?

:¬ /

Not everyone has that good of an armor.

[Nestorath69]

Well, unlike last time, I won’t argue over how frequently flames come in. Sadly, I’m tired of it, and this is not my battle. I didn’t register the first complaint, so I don’t think it’s up to me to prove there is a problem. A number of people posted in this thread complaining aside from myself – if nothing else that shows it is not just me this time – and last time a few tentative new members also spoke up about being verbally attacked. I’m not making anything up.

Also, the end of that long thread in the past was a single to-the-point post in the line of:

“If you see a problem with flames, then note the posts where the flames happen and drop the links in the Mod’s Drop Box. They will be taken care of accordingly.”



I know for a fact that Paulo has made it a habit to post links of flames in the mods’ box – and those threads remain untouched, his posts deleted within hours with nothing done.

This isn’t an argument about whether flames exist or even whether the community should be as friendly as a certain admin claimed it to be. This is an argument about the rule against those posts, and the fact that nothing is done about it – even when the posts are brought to the attention of the mods. I realize that first example was noted by other members – regular members explained that the behavior was not really the ‘best’ way to take out frustration. So that thread never got put in the mods box – it was taken care of without them having to intervene. Other threads were not resolved so quickly, and members made sure to point them out – but nothing was done about it. At most, a thread might be locked to keep the useless posts from becoming a regular flamey spamfest.

And maybe they aren’t as bad as it looks on the surface. But in the last few weeks I’ve seen new member after new member making posts in the wrong sections (or the right ones) and getting greeted with instant flame and/or hostility. If we don’t need a welcoming section because “I’m sure people will welcome you with open arms” then the response to those first ‘intro’ posts should be toned down. In the past there was a way around it – those greeting new members in the ‘AAM’ section tended to be the ones who were happy to explain where to ask questions, to answer the basic questions almost every new member comes in with, and to give that ‘welcome’ greeting. Now, the welcome new members get is a sharp flame or simply spamming ridicule.

I know I’ve said it before, but if the site doesn’t want new members, simply close the forum to new members. There’s no reason to attack people when you can keep them from joining in the first place. It’s a cycle, you know? That first (and one of the worst) flames I noted was made by someone who’s been a member for only a few months – now sounding like one of the older members who would normally be flaming him for his grammar and spelling. Some despise the treatment and promise themselves never to treat others like that. And some accept it as what EC dubbed the ‘trial by fire’ and take pride in inflicting that treatment on as many ‘noobs’ as they can. Why? Because once you start flaming noobs you aren’t a noob anymore? Does joining the flamers keep you from being targeted yourself?

Or is it because it’s an online forum? So that means you can’t ask for improvements in an online community? People in an online community are incapable of being civil to each other? I don’t believe that.

You've raised a lot of valid points. I agree. The things I've highlighted are things that need to be changed, or called attention to. I ask this of you- Instead of delegation to the mods, why not take action and call the flamers to account yourself? appoint yourself as a 'flame extinguisher' and hold them accountable. true, you do not have a 'Mod' title, or an 'Admin' title, so there won't be any weight behind your words, but you will have taken initiative, and in the professional world that I live and interact with all of the time, taking initiative is rewarded as much as making excuses is frowned upon. I have nothing more to say.

[Scintilla]

You've raised a lot of valid points. I agree. The things I've highlighted are things that need to be changed, or called attention to. I ask this of you- Instead of delegation to the mods, why not take action and call the flamers to account yourself? appoint yourself as a 'flame extinguisher' and hold them accountable. true, you do not have a 'Mod' title, or an 'Admin' title, so there won't be any weight behind your words, but you will have taken initiative, and in the professional world that I live and interact with all of the time, taking initiative is rewarded as much as making excuses is frowned upon. I have nothing more to say.

How much more initiative can really be taken, besides reporting flames to the moderators? Neither Ari nor the rest of us can really do anything else about it, other than publicly condemning the offenders. The power hasn't been given to us to enforce the rules.

[)v(ajin Koji]

why don't we just ignore flamers?

:¬ /

Not everyone has that good of an armor.

it's not that hard, just dont respond to them, then they'll get bored and move on.