Off Topic Section Removed

[Arigatomina]

Now that there's no point arguing or begging anymore, are we allowed to ask questions about how this action will effect the future of the forum?

Feel free to answer any of these, whoever knows the answers:

If someone posts something 'on-topic' and adds a small bracket at the end making a personal comment to the poster s/he is replying to, does that make the entire post 'off-topic' and aimed for deletion?

If someone posts in GA about how many manga books for a certain anime s/he buys, what does that have to do with amvs or making amvs (the purpose of this site and the forum), and so, how can it possibly be on-topic to the discussion this entire forum is dedicated to?

If someone makes a post in GA about the anime s/he has on dvd, does that person have to be an amv maker who uses those dvds to make vids in order to be on-topic as someone discussing things that go toward amv creation (the purpose of this site and the forum), and so, would a non-creator be 'off-topic' for speaking of his/her collection since the dvds in question won't contribute to any amv creation?

How will 'on-topic' versus 'off-topic' be decided when it comes to the Anime and Music sections, according to amv creators or according to amv watchers (since amvs are the purpose of this site and the forum)?

And how much does one have to give to amv creators in order to be a 'useful' member (for those who don't make 'great' vids that support the site)?

What is the goal of this site, who is it made for, what sort of members do you want, and how soon are you going to get rid of the useless ones who hang around after this point?

When the next step is taken to get rid of the useless people, what will it be, another deletion of a section, or outright culling of the herd?

What is the mindset regarding this site and the people who frequent the forums, and what sort of future moves can members expect?

I've gotten a lot of people (in this thread especially) making claims on Phade's opinions toward 'useful vs waste',and what he wants the forum to be about. Does anyone know for sure, or are the ones making assumptions merely trying to get on his good side and inadvertantly making false claims?

What does he want? If he's willing to upset this many members without budging, what does he hope to achieve by this?

[A straightforward answer from someone how knows Phade (or Phade himself, if he has the time and hasn't already blown up from some of the vagrant personal attacks in this thread) would be better than people who just happen to agree with him but can't accurately state his thoughts.]

[asrrin29]

Arigatomyna, I compelty see why you want answers to these questions, and I raised similiar concerns in my post, though much more sarcastically. Why stop with the OT, It's just like during world war two, this guy wrote a poem, lemme see if I can find it...

ah, here it is (the wonder's of google ):

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

[Arigatomina]

It's just like during world war two, this guy wrote a poem, lemme see if I can find it...

That poem is a favorite of mine. ^.~ It's one of the reasons I don't take things on face value. Yes, it's just the OT section, but what does that mean for the rest of the forum - what are the ramifications this action will have on the future members and the future of the forum itself? What's the bigger picture here?

[And please don't say nothing will change, that's being naive and unreasonably so.]

[trythil]

It's just like during world war two, this guy wrote a poem, lemme see if I can find it...

That poem is a favorite of mine. ^.~ It's one of the reasons I don't take things on face value. Yes, it's just the OT section, but what does that mean for the rest of the forum - what are the ramifications this action will have on the future members and the future of the forum itself? What's the bigger picture here?

[And please don't say nothing will change, that's being naive and unreasonably so.]

That poem is also a favorite of mine, because it's very nicely worded and it usually isn't applicable to a given situation.

Unfortunately, it makes people feel intellectual just because they can quote it or (even better) copy it off the Internet or some other source.

Nobody is stalking people and locking them up. You, unlike the people persecuted by the Nazis, have many choices. You can stay, leave, bitch about it, go to Demonseal, Hypeodermic, whatever. I'm sorry, but that poem has absolutely zero applicability to any situation where you have a choice.

---

You want to know how far this will go? You want to know what standards will be applied to determining "off-topic" vs. "on-topic"?

You know what? I have a revolutionary answer for you.

I'm fairly sure things will be the same as they've been pre-12/6. (Come to think of it, I think this thread has generated more traffic than any 9-11 post on this board. I can't look far back enough, unfortunately -- the search tools only go back a year.)

This was one event, and what you're trying to do is extrapolate future events using just this one data point. That usually only works in scripts for Hollywood movies.

If you want a better data set, I'd look at what the moderators have done over the course of the past few months up through today: you have to _really_ lead a thread off-topic before they'll step in. I think this thread is a pretty good example of that.

About your other questions, especially about mindset: most of them are personal, and if you've the persistence of a paparazzi reporter (which I assume you do), you might as well just email Phade your questions, since he's the only one who can really answer them with any authority.

[bum]

i know im kinda delayed but, i never go to off topic. all i visit are the amv and video forums. if i wana blab on about crap, i just go to http://www.yanime.com, or if i wana flame a board, i just flame http://www.juraiantowers.org

[Arigatomina]

That poem is also a favorite of mine, because it's very nicely worded and it usually isn't applicable to a given situation.
Unfortunately, it makes people feel intellectual just because they can quote it or (even better) copy it off the Internet or some other source.

Who is trying to sound intellectual here? I never said anyone was being persecuted. All I said was that the poem was familiar to me and that it had a lot to do with the reason I don't sit back and ignore events just because they don't hurt me personally. Reread my short reply and maybe you'll see that. I appologize if I hid another meaning in those few straightforward words.

I'm sorry, but that poem has absolutely zero applicability to any situation where you have a choice.

A black cat can make the difference between a person dying or living, a pencil being dropped can be the determining factor in whether or not a student is shot in a driveby. And yes, a poem can be applicable whether you see the relevance or not - it depends on how it effects the readers. Choice doesn't matter in this case, it's all about how a person takes the situation and sees connections to that peom. Don't be 'all-knowing' when it comes to opinion matters. That poem effects me, and in doing so, shapes my behavior in this situation - that makes it applicable to this situation - for me - whether you agree or not makes no difference.

You want to know how far this will go? You want to know what standards will be applied to determining "off-topic" vs. "on-topic"?
You know what? I have a revolutionary answer for you.
I'm fairly sure things will be the same as they've been pre-12/6.
This was one event, and what you're trying to do is extrapolate future events using just this one data point. That usually only works in scripts for Hollywood movies.

Go to college, take a few courses on history, and see if there aren't patterns in life. Forget make believe, just look at the way history of humans repeats itself over and over, on a small scale that some don't see. Take an internet forum that starts a few new rules to ban certain content and watch how those few rules lead it to banning new content, again and again until it is one of the most censored forums in the fanfiction world (the TQml for the curious). Then take another internet forum that starts a few new rules to ban certain content and you can predict that it will follow the same path. I'm not playing scriptwriter and making up some fantasy story for Hollywood, I'm being a logical person who knows that if you drop a rock in a pond there will be ripples. I want to know what reflections are going to be marred when those ripples reach them. It's cause and effect, not something I'm pulling out of the air. This is why I asked people not to be naive - I appologize. I should have asked that people not try to be pompous and throw everything I said to some hollywood dribble done by someone who thinks literature might possibly have some relevance to real life. My bad.

If you want a better data set, I'd look at what the moderators have done over the course of the past few months up through today: you have to _really_ lead a thread off-topic before they'll step in. I think this thread is a pretty good example of that.

And this is what Phade protested he would like to change. This is the reason he got rid of OT, because it was too much for one or two mods to handle. I already know the past behavior of the mods, that was never in question. I want to know how the future behavior will play out once Phade puts his ideals into effect. If he didn't want change, he wouldn't have deleted OT. To say there will be no change is to say he wasted his time, and I'd hope you don't believe that.

As foryour other questions, especially about mindset: most of them are personal, and if you've the persistence of a paparazzi reporter (which I assume you do), you might as well just email Phade your questions, since he's the only one who can really answer them with any authority.

You're right. I have no right to ask questions of the owner of this site. After all, I'm just another useless member, right? The goals of this site shouldn't be something private that Phade whispers to a friend in an email. Now, if I were asking him about his sex life, that would be private. Asking him what his goals are for this forum - that effects everyone who uses it...that's the sort of thing you see in a mission statement - that is not private unless he makes it private, in which case the forum would be by invitation only.

I asked a few questions that would help me (and others) be a better member of this site, according to Phade's wishes as the owner of this site.

You attacked me for asking 'personal' questions (about something that effects every member of this site), being stupid enough to think Hollywood were the real life (I'm still not sure where that comes from), and for having the gall to be effected by something that means nothing to you (as if no one is influenced by anything unless you are). What was the point of your post? You might as well have just called me an idiot and done a "I'm right, you're a moron." post and called it a day.

[paizuri]

I would think that it's only natural for long conversations to veer away from the topic that was first introduced and so long as it's reasonably similar to the original topic I don't think that should qualify as grounds for removal/deletion. But if you post something that is blatantly off-topic, I wouldn't be surprised if that were trimmed from the thread.

But as for setting a concrete definition of what is on vs. off-topic? I think that can only be relative. But c'mon people, use common sense. Talking about Evangelion and then going off about Gainax or talking about religion or psychology seems reasonable to me, but if someone starts talking about "WHY DOES IT BURN WHEN I PEE???"...yeah, that's more than a little off-topic.

[azulmagia]

This thread had been PRUNED. All the crap in here is now gone. If you would like to continue this discussion in a rational and articulate manner, please feel free to continue posting. However, anything deemed to be off topic to the subject of this thread, which is the removal of the off-topic forums will be deleted.

Now come on. There was no call for excising my miniscule, five or six sentence post, which made one or two rather trite, indeed, banal, statements, just because it came after an Insane Keyblader post. You could have just removed the first paragraph, I wouldn't have cared. No need to let any animosities spill over where they aren't wanted. That was just dirty pool.

Yes, this whole thing could have been prevented. To say OT etc. had to be removed because they could were so out of control as to be beyond redemption is prima facie absurd. In fact, they were improving, due the graphics contest and the christmas banner thing. I still remember one thread where some joker asked what everyone's password was. That malignant little thread should have been locked before it hit page two. As I recall, one member gave enough clues so that somebody could actually guess her password. It was WOTted, and eventually died of neglect, but still, that was pretty sloppy modding - it went on for 6 or 7 pages!! I mean, it's somewhat untenable to blame everything on some (rhetorical) crowd of n00bs, and not let the mods, who are incognito, remain as such and hence inaccessible for any real blame or responsibility, or for that matter any genuine kudos for preventing or stopping things. Something is funny here. No wonder these kids posting links to warez and mp3s feel no real intimidation, and they should at least on that point, because it's damn near the most important rule to observe here.

Who are these masked mods anyways?

Strangely enough, I believe it was the said joker who's been the most eloquent person on this thread. Brought a tear to my eye, he did.

[MODC3P0 - OK I gotta break the silence here for a minute. With all the people hating on the mods, did it ever occur to anyone that maybe we aren't ALLOWED to moderate everything we'd like to/think should be moderated? Dwell on that for a minute]

[Arigatomina]

[MODC3P0 - OK I gotta break the silence here for a minute. With all the people hating on the mods, did it ever occur to anyone that maybe we aren't ALLOWED to moderate everything we'd like to/think should be moderated? Dwell on that for a minute]

Then it isn't the mods' fault they couldn't mod the OT section? I thought they were busy (that there were two people trying to handle everything in those sections - way too much for two people). If they *couldn't* because they didn't have the power, then there's no blaming them at all.

[I don't think I've blamed them for anything, but if I did, I take it back. I took it for granted that they at least had control over OT posts, editing and locking/deleting threads in those forums. Ignorance can lead to a lot of misunderstandings, though - that can't be helped when mod powers are a mystery to most members.]

[MCWagner]

GODDAMMIT PHADE DON'T YOU KNOW YOU BEAR ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ENTERTAINMENT

Most hilarious thread ever. 5 stars.

Holy Cow! Welcome back!

But on the topic at hand....everyone who seems to think that spam will leak into the other forums appears to be ignoring the little spam-rats that are all jumping ship for more putrescent waters. "I'm leaving....forever." Well, don't let the door hit you...

"This could have been prevented" "That's what the OT and WOT were for" "The mods should have been doing a better job."

Newsflash, this is a CHANGE. Phade was willing to tolerate all the inane idiocy of OT and WOT when it was an occasional "Merry Christmas everyone!" or a newbie working the system out. He withstood all the spam and 733+ speakers, flamewars and personal insults for the sake of the prior. Mods trimmed out stuff that might draw unwanted legal interest, porn, and the worst of the flamewars. Hell, the only people ever banned for significant periods of time were Hatter (in all his useless incarnations) and SPamda (with the everpresent bloat). He was willing to tolerate all that. Now he isn't. The reasons really speak for themselves. This wasn't a sudden change, it was the fact that it was gradually building up to the main attraction of the forum when it was only ever supposed to be a tangential part.

Me, I say good riddance. It was fun at the start, and I used to read the OT place regularly every day when it first went up, but it quickly became idiotic. When mods came along, it became a mark of honor to piss them off. People squeeze around the rules in their sig pictures in some adolescent gesture of rebellion for the hell of it. Or maybe that should be the infantile pleasure of smearing shit on the walls while they wander in a place with no personal reprecussions. God, the incessant whining of people who got modded starting new threads titled "Phade is a Nazi!" Get over yourselves. You kick your host in the shins, you're going to be asked to leave. OT and WOT became the only reason for many people to come to the forums, and since they were supposed to be momentary diversions from the other forums, they'd effectively failed. a-m-v.org was only known for the OT and WOT forums, because all the intelligent discourse got tired of the crap in there and left.

Then again, what do I know? I get little enough recognition for my contribution to the AMV scene, and no $$. For my part, our organization has very specific ways of dealing with OT crap that tries to creep in where I hold court, and it's never hurt us none. In fact, it's benefitted us majorly.