Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

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Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby Athena » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:38 pm

Just a thought... Given the many General AMV threads that are constituted of reviews, it seems to make sense to me to make Opinion Exchange into a subforum under a Feedback forum, along with Review related threads (on forum reviews, #AMV-Review, review podcast, TWIAMVs, etc), and maybe a WIP/Beta subform to keep WIP separate from released video opinion exchanges (since the latter uses an actual form on the Org, but WIPs don't, and because they are slightly different from a critical theory point of view). It would also make keeping track of all of the former review threads/logs situated in the same place. Godix's sticky only has six. There are like a hundred ore more total review threads.

Just a thought. Talk amongst yourselves. </coffeetalk>
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Re: Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby Otohiko » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:43 pm

I think this is a very good idea, actually. I'm not sure if the name is specific enough, might need to be [something] Feedback - but in general, it'd be a great catch-all for more activity, like beta exchanges, #review-type-things, etc.
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Re: Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby Melanchthon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:21 pm

Seems like a good idea, if only for keeping information on the off-forum AMV activities in one place.
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Re: Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby xnamkcor » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:25 pm

I agree.
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Re: Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby Arigatomina » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:53 am

I don't like it. Having the main (top, visible) aspect of the Op Exchange put emphasis on "exchange" encourages people to give and not just take. If the main section were "Feedback," people would go into it expecting handouts. Few of those leeches would bother to click the subsection titled "exchange" when they're already getting feedback for free.

A better option would be to stick the review threads into a subsection of the Op Exchange. That can be your "Feedback" subsection. That way those who enter the "Exchange" planning to give and receive will be pleasantly surprised (and rewarded) with an offer of freebies.

Another problem with having the review threads be the main (top/visible) part of a section is that most of them are dead. They're more like recommendations, public reviews of old vids. They'd fit best in the "recommended amvs" subforum of Gen AMv, since they only exist to advertise the vids they focus on. You could make a subsection there, or just a sticky thread linking them all. It might even be nice to use that section to encourage open discourse about the vids recommended there instead of just lists of personal favorites that no one can argue with or respond to.

As for the active review threads asking for new applicants, they are very useful to those looking for feedback, and they'll sit right next to the free op threads. That's what they are, right? The only difference is the ops are posted openly on the forum and not hidden away on the vid profile page. Lump those active review threads and the free op threads into a "free feedback" subsection of the op exchange.

For review threads featuring new vids, you could incorporate them into the "AMV Announcement" section. Having these public reviewers post right on the vid announcement thread for that particular vid might encourage more people to read and respond to those threads. It would at least give lurkers a reason to hang out in that section if they enjoy reading detailed feedback on other people's videos.

I think there are a lot of ways to make use of the popularity of the review threads. If there really are enough of them to fill a main section on their own, then spread them around the right way and they could revitalize a lot of sections. Displace the Op Exchange with those threads and you kill the only part of the org that teaches people they need to give feedback if they want some in return.
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Re: Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby Athena » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:34 pm

Arigatomina wrote:I don't like it. Having the main (top, visible) aspect of the Op Exchange put emphasis on "exchange" encourages people to give and not just take. If the main section were "Feedback," people would go into it expecting handouts. Few of those leeches would bother to click the subsection titled "exchange" when they're already getting feedback for free.


This is a good point. However, considering the troubles the reviews seem to be having in getting people to make nominations... Perhaps if all we got was leeches nominating their own first videos, the group would finally realise the need to nominate a wider range of videos? Of course, it could also kill the participation in review pretty quickly. Your point is well taken.

A better option would be to stick the review threads into a subsection of the Op Exchange. That can be your "Feedback" subsection. That way those who enter the "Exchange" planning to give and receive will be pleasantly surprised (and rewarded) with an offer of freebies.


I don't like this. If I grant you have a point in keeping Opinion Exchange, emphasis on the Exchange, as its own section, then other types of feedback, such as reviews, really need their own section. Opinion Exchange is a highly specific form of criticism, and I already feel that WIP type feedback is not the same, and to have it under Opinion Exchange is a bit odd. To also include reviews under Opinion Exchange would, I think, not make a whole lot of sense. On the Org, Opinion means something very, very specific. It has a specific form we fill out. It's defined differently from other commentary or criticism.

Another problem with having the review threads be the main (top/visible) part of a section is that most of them are dead. They're more like recommendations, public reviews of old vids. They'd fit best in the "recommended amvs" subforum of Gen AMv, since they only exist to advertise the vids they focus on. You could make a subsection there, or just a sticky thread linking them all. It might even be nice to use that section to encourage open discourse about the vids recommended there instead of just lists of personal favorites that no one can argue with or respond to.


Actually, this was never the intent of the review threads. Or at least not the threads started by godix or myself. I don't know how threads end up eventually being locked, but it was our intention that every review thread should be open and allowed to grow organically, which is why, before his death, godix had set up the lawlssticky. At this point, all of the review threads do need to be consolidated in either his sticky or a new one, but they shouldn't be dead. They should be living, so that if someone watches a video, and is intrigued by the discourse, they should be able to necropost, and in the case of reviews, this would be acceptable, even encouraged behavior. In true academic discourse, even if the conversation lulls, it never stops. In my own area of research, I can trace the discourse in English back nearly a hundred years. If I go to Japanese sources, hundreds of years. If I got to Chinese sources, thousands of years. Why should reviews simply stop accepting new input after a few months?

As for the active review threads asking for new applicants, they are very useful to those looking for feedback, and they'll sit right next to the free op threads. That's what they are, right? The only difference is the ops are posted openly on the forum and not hidden away on the vid profile page. Lump those active review threads and the free op threads into a "free feedback" subsection of the op exchange.


This largely depends on which type of review thread you're discussing, but even then, no, not really. Opinions, as defined by the Org, is a solitary type of critical response. Although there is a chance for others to read opinions, once they have written an opinion of their own, there is no easy way to interface with the opinions of others. Certainly no way to do so in anything approximating real time. IRC review threads start with logs (assuming permission is given) of a review which was conducted in real time, and later move as quickly as people are willing to post. Non-IRC review threads don't have as much immediacy, but they could still manage to move at quite a clip if enough people were interested in posting. They're not free opinions in the sense of how the Org defines opinions. Conceptually, the two are very different indeed.

For review threads featuring new vids, you could incorporate them into the "AMV Announcement" section. Having these public reviewers post right on the vid announcement thread for that particular vid might encourage more people to read and respond to those threads. It would at least give lurkers a reason to hang out in that section if they enjoy reading detailed feedback on other people's videos.


Possible, although the problem with this is that the idea of AMV Announcements is really hinged on the idea that the initial post is made by the creators themselves or with permission of the creator. Announcements are announced by the creator. Although IRC logs will only be posted with permission of the creator, general review threads will not (unless we change the format) require permission from the author. Many of the general review threads are not new videos, either. So while I understand your thinking here, again, I think you presume too much similarity which doesn't actually exist.

I think there are a lot of ways to make use of the popularity of the review threads. If there really are enough of them to fill a main section on their own, then spread them around the right way and they could revitalize a lot of sections.


While that's true, that's not a solution. If there are really that many of them, and if encouragement actually brings about continued publication of these types of contributions, then we'll eventually need a place to put them all anyhow. Letting them temporarily serve as revitalisation of various sections is a case of kicking the can down the road. And the more threads there are in more sections, the harder it will be later to consolidate them for the mods.

Displace the Op Exchange with those threads and you kill the only part of the org that teaches people they need to give feedback if they want some in return.


I think this is a valid point. A good one. However, I don't think keeping Op Exchange is a reason not to give other types of feedback, like reviews, their own section. I think it is a reason to do so... in addition to Op Exchange.
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Re: Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby Arigatomina » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:57 am

Kionon wrote:I don't think keeping Op Exchange is a reason not to give other types of feedback, like reviews, their own section. I think it is a reason to do so... in addition to Op Exchange.

I have no problem giving other types of feedback their own section. I just don't want to give them the OP Exchange section. I don't believe the Op Exchange section will survive if it's pushed into a subforum.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of public reviews where anyone can comment on other people's opinions. It's like IMDB for amvs, except on a tiny scale. It would be great to have a place on the forum for that. I used to dream about having public ops that were more like IMDB or even Amazon reviews because I think open discourse can really help to make the org something beyond a repository/storage place. I even secretly hoped ops might be tweaked as part of the org redesign since interactive feedback is common on other sites. I love the idea of fans talking about amvs the way they get together to talk about movies and books. If the review threads can be displayed in a way to encourage that sort of dialogue, I'm all for it. I just want to find a way to display them that does not hinge upon displacing (and killing) the Op Exchange.
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Re: Change Opinion Exchange to Feedback Forum?

Postby Athena » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:40 am

Arigatomina wrote:I have no problem giving other types of feedback their own section. I just don't want to give them the OP Exchange section. I don't believe the Op Exchange section will survive if it's pushed into a subforum..


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