Best way to handle 1080p footage

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Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby pacotacoshell » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:02 pm

So whenever I try to edit with 1080 sources, it always lags pretty hard most of the time. Frames are constantly skipping in the preview and it makes editing pretty difficult. I even change my project settings to 720p while I edit so it would help with the lag some but it doesn't really work out. So I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to edit to 1080 footage with a minimal amount of lag. Like if a video container or a certain project setting reduces some of the lag?

I use Sony Vegas Pro 11.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby Cannonaire » Tue May 01, 2012 1:17 am

I would also like to know how people do this.

What I have done so far is bait-and-switch; I make two renders of my source, one in full 1080 (or whatever res I will use for final output) and an intermediate one at a much smaller resolution, maybe 1/3 or 1/4 the resolution. I edit with the lower resolution footage, then when it is time to render (or add resolution-dependent effects) I swap in the full resolution footage. Obviously this requires changing project settings and being very careful about not messing things up. All in all, this is a clunky way to handle things.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Tue May 01, 2012 10:57 am

Yeah, basically what Cannonaire said.

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The whole idea is to make two files (with different quality resolutions and/or codecs),
then trick your editor into using whatever file it see's in the file location of your footage.
As long as they look the same frame-by-frame, and have the same name and file extension (like .avi), your editor cannot distinguish between the two files.

You could do it the long way in your timeline, or
    1. Close your editor.
    2. Switch the file location of your footage with the Real/Proxy file.
    3. Re-open your editor, and hope it uses the swapped file in your timeline instead.
    4. Edit with the Proxy file. Render with the Real file.

Tips:
    -Make sure your Proxy file has the same framerate as your Real file.
    -Repeat this process as you edit, so you know it is working, ensuring all your frames line up. (You really don't want to botch your whole project...)
    -You may need to change your project framesize to match the new file.
    -Use something like UTVideo for your Real file, and optionally a different codec for your Proxy (maybe ffdshow's MJPEG...)
    -Play with resolution/quality of your proxy file. I've gone as low as 320x180, and it was lightning fast (quality was iffy but good enough for me...)
    -If you know a bit of Batch, you can write a script to automate the whole process.

The nicest thing about proxy editing, is you can use the slowest computer ever, and it'll still be fast in your timeline, assuming you aren't applying any effects that require processing power.
(until it comes to rendering... but I usually render on a different computer at home anyway... )

Hope this helps.


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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue May 01, 2012 1:30 pm

It might also be worth figuring out where your bottleneck is (HDD or CPU). I wouldn't recommend SSDs for footage drives with the prices still this high, but striped RAID might speed up your throughput a bit. Also, i'm not sure about Vegas, but AE enjoys having large amounts of RAM to work with. I did something in what amounts to twice the resolution of 8K a while back and it needed 4GB to even load a frame at 1/8 quality.

Post your system's specs if you don't mind.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby pacotacoshell » Tue May 01, 2012 3:19 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:It might also be worth figuring out where your bottleneck is (HDD or CPU). I wouldn't recommend SSDs for footage drives with the prices still this high, but striped RAID might speed up your throughput a bit. Also, i'm not sure about Vegas, but AE enjoys having large amounts of RAM to work with. I did something in what amounts to twice the resolution of 8K a while back and it needed 4GB to even load a frame at 1/8 quality.

Post your system's specs if you don't mind.

I googled how to find out what your bottleneck is and it told me to do something, so I took a screen of it.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby DJ_Izumi » Tue May 01, 2012 9:32 pm

Even the Intel HD 3000 on my Sandy Bridge laptop scores 5.9... o.O

That said, GPU is going to have negligible impact on the editing experience. 5.9 on the primary HDD is a pretty decent score. Everything I own, my RAID1 desktop, single drive laptop and my crap box Athlon 64 server all score 5.9 on their HDD scores.

You won't get anything faster without entertaining the usage of an SSD, server grade HDD or RAID0 or RAIDX+0
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby Eake4 » Thu May 03, 2012 6:19 am

As phan said, switch between the higher quality version with the lower quality version which would be EXACTLY identical in terms of frame rate.
I thought programs such as vegas and premiere allowed footage switching with same editing?
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby Pwolf » Wed May 09, 2012 2:46 pm

You also need to take into consideration the source format. Are you using a lossy source that requires a lot of decoding (aka, h264)? Convert your source to a faster lossless codec and try again.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby pacotacoshell » Thu May 10, 2012 12:55 am

Pwolf wrote:You also need to take into consideration the source format. Are you using a lossy source that requires a lot of decoding (aka, h264)? Convert your source to a faster lossless codec and try again.

Yeah, I output my footage on vdub in a lossless lagarith avi. I also heard that xvid was pretty light on the lag on vegas, but all of it is still pretty much the same in terms of lag for me.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby Pwolf » Thu May 10, 2012 1:05 am

Don't use Xvid for editing, ever. It's also a lossy codec. Lagarith is pretty slow so try huffyuv and see if it's any better. I would suggest UTVideo but apparently there are issues with UTVideo and Vegas (so i'm told).
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby Cannonaire » Thu May 10, 2012 1:50 am

Pwolf wrote:Don't use Xvid for editing, ever. It's also a lossy codec. Lagarith is pretty slow so try huffyuv and see if it's any better. I would suggest UTVideo but apparently there are issues with UTVideo and Vegas (so i'm told).

Not to derail the conversation, but I do have to set the record straight (I know where you heard this). Out of hundreds of UTVideo-encoded clips (clips, full episodes, and full movies of varying resolution) which I have imported into and used in Vegas, only a single short clip caused any problems for me. I would recommend UTVideo for editing over Lagarith for speed reasons and over HuffYUV for compatibility reasons (there are multiple formats of HuffYUV which can not be used interchangeably without issues). That said, for some reason I can not get Vegas 10 (Movie Studio Platinum) to render out to UTVideo, so I use Lagarith for making final masters; editing speed does not matter at that point anyway.

I second everything Pwolf said about not using Xvid for editing. What a mess.

Back on topic:
Is there anyone with a method for 1080 editing that is different from variations of bait-and-switch?
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby pacotacoshell » Thu May 10, 2012 2:17 am

Cannonaire wrote:
Pwolf wrote:Don't use Xvid for editing, ever. It's also a lossy codec. Lagarith is pretty slow so try huffyuv and see if it's any better. I would suggest UTVideo but apparently there are issues with UTVideo and Vegas (so i'm told).

Not to derail the conversation, but I do have to set the record straight (I know where you heard this). Out of hundreds of UTVideo-encoded clips (clips, full episodes, and full movies of varying resolution) which I have imported into and used in Vegas, only a single short clip caused any problems for me. I would recommend UTVideo for editing over Lagarith for speed reasons and over HuffYUV for compatibility reasons (there are multiple formats of HuffYUV which can not be used interchangeably without issues). That said, for some reason I can not get Vegas 10 (Movie Studio Platinum) to render out to UTVideo, so I use Lagarith for making final masters; editing speed does not matter at that point anyway.

I second everything Pwolf said about not using Xvid for editing. What a mess.

Back on topic:
Is there anyone with a method for 1080 editing that is different from variations of bait-and-switch?

I will definitely try the UTVideo route and see if that's any better. I only used Xvid for proxy editing, but again, that was still slow.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby DJ_Izumi » Fri May 11, 2012 11:14 am

Wait... After lookig at your Windows 7 experience index score... Something seems kinda wrong.

You have an i7-2630QM, which is a 2.0ghz Sandy Bridge quad core for a laptop. I have an i5 -2410M laptop, which is a 2.3ghz quad core. Both have the Intel HD 3000 graphics with identical specs, except the i7-2630QM's runs juuuust a bit slower in turbo mode.

So how does mine score 5.9 for Aero but yours scores 4.9?

And to add some irony, I'll be replacing the CPU in my laptop tonight with a i7-2630QM which I ordered off eBay. I'm curious how mine would stack up.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby Pwolf » Fri May 11, 2012 11:57 am

The i5-2410M has a higher GPU frequency.
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Re: Best way to handle 1080p footage

Postby DJ_Izumi » Fri May 11, 2012 12:35 pm

Pwolf wrote:The i5-2410M has a higher GPU frequency.


Both run stock at 650mhz, the 2410M runs at 1200mhz vs 1100Mhz in turbo mode. I just don't see how that'd result in a score difference of an entire point.

More over, his laptop seems to score .2 in 3D over mine, but that's likely just a minor difference that's insignifigant. A whole point however, that's sorta huge.

Oh well, I just got back from the post office with my 2630QM from eBay. We'll see what my experience index marks are like after a couple of hours of laptop surgery.
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